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Elizabeth
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In my little OCD way, I spent a few minutes trying to decide where to put this thread. I decided to put it here because I think the "Faith Factor" is what sets it apart from conversations on friendship found on every tv talk show and women's magazine.
Recently, Helen has shared three different quotes pertaining to friendship and popularity. The most recent from Teresa of Avilia seems to speak to grown women. This one, is the good doctor's advice to parents but I think it bears some considering by women in light of their own friendships. And then John Bosco really spells it out.
Think about your dear friendships. Do they hold up in light of these quotes? How do you cultivate friendships like these? How many firends do we need? What is the balance between isolation and popluarity for popularity's sake? Do your friends make you a better Catholic? A better mother? A better wife? Do you do that for them? What about those "other" friendships? The ones that take your time but aren't necessarily close relationships? Is there a legitimate place for those?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Courtney
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What a great thread, Elizabeth. In recent years, I have really been looking at the difference btwn "friend" and aquaintance. Although in my last neighborhood I developed a very close friend who was my neighbor, I've learned (the hard way) that b/c someone is my neighbor, doesn't make them my friend automatically. I've had to learn that true friendships are not born overnight. I've learned that I need to pay attention to one's principles and take the time to slowly get to know people so I'm not overly involved before I see red flags. I asked for prayers a month or so ago in regards to a situation with a neighbor/friend. After counsel with my spiritual advisor, I realize I had turned a blind eye to many red flags in this friendship early on. I've since learned the value in taking things slowly. I'm coming to believe in quality vs. quantity. It's hard learning some of these lessons at age 39! I hope to teach my children from my experiences. Thank you for this thread. I look forward to seeing others' responses.
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Christine
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I am not supposed to be on the computer, as I have a very busy weekend ahead and a lot to do before then; however, I had to say thank you for bringing all three of Helen's posts to my attention again.
I am still pondering the answers, but I have a couple of questions to add to Elizabeth's, in light of what St. John Bosco said. What do you do when you have a "good" friend whose children do or have the potential of influencing your children negatively? How do you foster your children's ability to discern the "best" friendships?
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Christine
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JennGM
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Elizabeth,
I read your post about your visit with your dear friend, Jan. It was beautiful.
Day-to-day friendships right now are slim to none, except for family members. And I'm blessed to have sisters nearby that share my faith and beliefs in family and upbringing, so in that area, yes, my friendships do nourish those areas. We can hash out difficult topics and learn from each other.
I don't have much time for anything else. Phone calls makes things meltdown. It's harder for me to make a friend, but when I do, it's for life....no matter the miles. But with a toddler, it's difficult to have the time to make new friends. Most women already have their small circle and in a similar way as I am, can't add one more.
My other friends I have are mostly long distance. We can reunite and start where we left off. But these are only the ones that I share the common ground of faith and our past times. It's amazing, but with a true friend, there is an understanding that our lives with our family take priority one, and just because we don't include them in a daily basis doesn't mean they aren't thought of, prayed for and missed.
I've let other friendships lapse when I realized they were pulling me down, either emotionally or physically. The person seemed to stagnant in their faith, and it just got too hard to talk about "nothing." I am cordial and friendly in small amounts of time, but I don't do much to keep nourishing the friendship. A big difference with this type was that there was the jealousy and non-understanding about the busyness of our lives "threatening" the relationship.
Writing this almost sounds so cruel and harsh... I long for a nearby friend to do things with, but I have my sisters, so that's my answer for now...I often think that another friend will be sent by God in His time. We'll see.
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Mary G
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When I read Elizabeth's Kindred Spirits I reviewed the list of friends I have and realized that my closest friends are my SILs -- the one my favorite brother is married to and my dh's sister. They know me well and keep me strengthened with their advice and criticisms. Criticisms that are constructive and help me to grow and be what God wants. But I wouldn't say they are deep, deep friends. We just don't see each other enough for that. Maybe someday.
We're going back to my dear friends in Austria -- I had this kind of relationship with them in the two years we lived there. I'm hoping and praying it will be as Elizabeth described -- as if we had left the room for a minute and just come back in...as if our conversation had not been stopped for three years. But things may have changed....
I think it's hard for women to have really close friends, those who really know us because then they also know our weaknesses. My friends in Austria helped me be a better Catholic woman because I wanted to rise to their excellence. Back in the States, I didn't find anything more than acquaintances (other than my 2 SILs) who I will miss but not like the folks in Austria.
When I read Helen's posts (great posts, btw Helen!) I realized that what Teresa of Avila and Don Bosco described is part of the relationship I have with my dh. Rick "keeps me honest" and focused. He helps me to excel and gives me room to grow. He encourages or discourages as he sees fit -- and he's often right.
Is it a cop-out to say my dh is my closest friend? Is it ok to not have a dear female friend? For now, my dh is my rock and aid; someday I may need a female friend, but for now, Rick more than suffices.
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Helen
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Thanks Mary!
I just wanted to say that my DH is my knight in shining armor. Some days I can see the lance jutting from the car window and the helmet sitting on the luggage rack when he drives in.
(just kidding, there's no luggage rack  )
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Mary G
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Christine wrote:
| What do you do when you have a "good" friend whose children do or have the potential of influencing your children negatively? How do you foster your children's ability to discern the "best" friendships? |
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Christine,
If I have friends whose own children are not good for mine, I slowly ease out. It's probably unfair, but I'm not good with confrontation. Of course these wouldn't be close, dear friends; how could they be and have children that are not appropriate for my own? My children and dh come first -- appropriateness in a friend would include appropriateness for my family. I couldn't have a close friend that was unhealthy for my family, because she'd ultimately be unhealthy for me too.
As far as teaching kids about true friends and steering them away from inappropriate relationships: this is a hard one. When they're little they're more likely to listen, but then you have more say in who they hang out with anyway (after all, they can't drive yet).
But when they're teens (especially after getting a license or going to school), you just have to assume that what you've taught them when they're little -- what values you've given them and shown them -- will stick. You also have to do as God did with all of us -- allow them the free will to make the mistakes which will help them grow. You can certainly pray and ask for help, but the bottom line is that at a certain point you have no more control.
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JennGM
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Mary G wrote:
When I read Helen's posts (great posts, btw Helen!) I realized that what Teresa of Avila and Don Bosco described is part of the relationship I have with my dh. Rick "keeps me honest" and focused. He helps me to excel and gives me room to grow. He encourages or discourages as he sees fit -- and he's often right.
Is it a cop-out to say my dh is my closest friend? Is it ok to not have a dear female friend? For now, my dh is my rock and aid; someday I may need a female friend, but for now, Rick more than suffices. |
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Yes, great posts, Helen. Love the quotes, too.
I was thinking that, too, much of the refining type of friendship I have is with dh. He knows me best, sees my spiritual side. Not a cop-out.
But there are female things that are just different in discussions. My former spiritual director used to say it was imperative for the husbands to encourage their wives to have a good friend to talk things out. BUT, like we've talked about there before, it needs to be uplifting converstaion. Not gossip or griping. It has to have growth.
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Jenny
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Elizabeth wrote:
Do your friends make you a better Catholic? A better mother? A better wife? Do you do that for them? What about those "other" friendships? The ones that take your time but aren't necessarily close relationships? Is there a legitimate place for those?
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I have to base my friendships on how we can each contribute each others salvation. I mean, I can mess up enough on my own, let alone with a partner with in crime (sin). I think part of that friendship involves what St John Bosco said "A vocation is preserved & protected by solitude & frequent communion." A true friend, reflecting on the salvation of their family as well as yours doesn't try to occupy all your free time. They understand the need for some quiet, some God time. As a matter of fact, they may help you gain some of that time, or suggest it when you feel drained.
This may sound harsh, but friendships that just "take up my time" aren't really friendships and I don't have time for them. My time is a valuable thing and I try, although I don't always manage, to make it of good use. If I am enjoying a friendship that is just a time taker, it could easily lead to some form of scandal or even sin.
Now, the friends I do have, we don't set around & quote the saints or scripture to each other the whole time but our conversationd reflect that our faith and our family are our focus. I can tell them, "I am drained from these kids." and not will say "Well, why do you have so many?" Or I may say that dh & I disagree on something & I know they won't give me the number for a good divorce lawyer. We all try to view our life from our faith & help each other accordingly.
Just like we here on the boards do 
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Chris' wife and momma of 7. My blog: The Littlest Way--Bible Journaling, Inspiring Bible Quotes, Daily Affirmations, Prayer Journaling & photography
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Jenny
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JennGM wrote:
| But there are female things that are just different in discussions. My former spiritual director used to say it was imperative for the husbands to encourage their wives to have a good friend to talk things out. BUT, like we've talked about there before, it needs to be uplifting converstaion. Not gossip or griping. It has to have growth. |
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Oh, my dh so agrees! He will even say, "Don't you have a girlfriend you can call about this?"
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Jenny
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Mary G
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JennGM wrote:
| BUT, like we've talked about there before, it needs to be uplifting converstaion. Not gossip or griping. It has to have growth. |
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The problem for me is that often my acquaintances lapse into the gossip and the griping and I go right with them -- it's not their fault, it's mine. so I odn't go out of my way to encourage those who I know are a near occasion of sin for me...
I guess what I'm trying to say (and not saying too well, unfortunately) is that my dh knows me so well and knows so well what's the good, true and beautiful that he can steer me in the right direction when I get off the path.
Not to say I'm a pushover or do everythign my dh says -- just on the important things he's usually so right and I know I can trust him.
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aussieannie
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This thread has been most edifying. I suppose friends are like the saints.. you can only converse deeply with that special few.. otherwise your soul can become like a rag given out to many. The other saints we can salute on their feasts or make mention of them with love when they are brought up in conversation, aquaintances can be like that. I always think that heaven would be where we can finally give all to all,(still keeping those special loves on earth closer to the heart of course) what a heavenly thought.......it's just that is just not possible or prudent to do that here on earth.
I would love to talk about children's friends but it is almost 9am and I am about to start school, may God bless you all and I thank you for sharing your wisdom.
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aussieannie
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The quotes that Helen has selected are focusing on one of the strongest reasons for homeschooling.
I think that if I did have a child in school I could always supplement the child with finer liturature and classical methods of teaching certain subjects if I thought the school was lacking in it's academics.
I would never rely on a school to impart the faith to my children, but train them myself in the home just as I do now.
But how can you fully protect your children from the influences of bad companions and what they may hear other children talking about in the playground?
Purity is a virtue that is becoming non-existant in our culture and unfortunately the schoolgrounds are notorious - they were even in my day.
Helen, it is great that you emphasised the importance of good friends for our children with such fabulous quotes from the saints that really knew the spiritual realities that are often overlooked today.
I will be bookmarking your site!
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momwise
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I wish I had more time to post these days but it's May 
I can't for the life of me think of the saint who wrote on holy friendships but if I can find him/her I will post more. I learned a lot about true friendship from those writings.
As with all Christian relationships, friends must put the good of the other's soul above all other considerations and that can be difficult to do!
Ironically (I learned on this forum that IRL means In Real Life) one of my very best friends is a person I've never met in real life but only online. Of course we have talked by phone over the years but perhaps that is one reason we are able to point out and discuss spiritual faults and failings and encourage and pray for each other so well?
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Helen
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St. Francis de Sales has a few chapters on friendship in An Introduction to the Devout Life You can find the chapters by scrolling down to part III.
Interestingly enough, most of his advice regards staying away from false friendships and what to do if you find yourself influenced by an evil friendship.
However, in the "anxiety" chapter he writes:
"If you can disclose your anxiety to the guide of your soul, or at least to some pious and trustworthy friend, doubt not that you will be speedily relieved"
St. Francis de Sales (Doctor of the Church) finishes this chapter by quoting King St. Louis IX who spoke to his son in these words:
"If thy heart be ill at ease, hasten to open it to thy confessor, or to some pious person, and by means of his comfort thou wilt be enabled easily to bear thine affliction."
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KristinaP
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What a great thread! It truly is a treasure to have a friend who can be there for the everyday life occurrences AND see them through God's eyes. After moving around so much growing up, developing true lifetime friendships has been a WHOLE LOT of trial and error. I'm always curious as to why God has put certain people in my path or vice versa.
I was lucky though that my parents were very vigilant in keeping an eye on my peers and how I was influenced. Don Boscoe's sentiments were definitely practiced in our house!
Have any of you read "Friendship -The Art of Happiness" by John Cuddeback? Its a short but excellent treatise on friendship-probably more philosophical than emotional but very insightful and true to the point.
After reading Elizabeth's blog (which made me cry,BTW) I started to reflect on the differences between my college friend and one of my current closest friends. My college friend knows my past and I hers so we can always pick up where we left off without missing a beat. My "new" friend and I don't have that history but still share the same depth- makes me contemplate the timing of this friendship as we get to know each other more and more, I wonder if we would have even tolerated each other before "growing up". Good friendships are truly a blessing and open my eyes to how my frienship with God should be!!
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abcmommy
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I think gossip and griping has its place. A relationship without honesty isnt much of a friendship and the truth is some of us need to gripe when things are rough.
Something i notice with people online is that their standards for people become impossibly high. Bc online we can choose to show any side we like (and only the best side if we want!) its easy to fool yourself into thinking online people are the "right" sort of people while real life people are all too sinful or rude to hang with.
I like talking to my neighbors. Some are friends. I like talking to people at church and in the store or at my kids' ballgames. I think these interactions make me a better catholic bc I am open to seeing God in others when I interact with real people. I also am reminded by others that humanity isnt perfect- including me. My children are as likely to be naughty as others. Fortunately any inappropriate pride in my children or their behavior has long ago been shattered and I am better off for the lesson in humility.
I guess being open to new friendships is my motto. while my very best buddy is a practicing catholic, none of my other very close friends are. Catholicism isnt a condition of friendship for me.
editing to add: i do think being open to life and being pro family is a condition of friendship for me. If someone ever said to me that their children were a burden (and not in the heat of the 5 pm "I'm pulling my hair out with these kids today" moment) then it would be hard for me to continue in friendship with them.
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aussieannie
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Sometimes I feel like Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof,
"You are right!"
"You are also right"
"You are right and your are right - they can't both be right?"
"You know, you are also right!"
I am amazed how I agree with certain elements of someone's discussion and then from another lady who is coming in from a different point of view - it is such a complicated area - but I think one thing is for sure - I am getting alot out of it all!!
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Kelly
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Lots of interesting thoughts here. As I read this, I thought, "Other than my dh, I have NO friends!"  , which isn't really true, but in the sense of a single defining description of friendship, one *type*, I guess it IS true.
As Jenn mentioned, we're all so very tied up in our home lives, which many people who are "in the world" just don't get...that those "outside" friendships usually don't go very far. Truthfully, too, I guess I get a little weary of explaining why we live the way we live, and consequently I just don't spend lots of time hanging with that set of homies On the other hand, I do know a lot of that set who seem to admire our lifestyle (though I'm sure they think we're crazy, too)but I get a little tired of being lionized AND being the oddball, all at the same time!
Coming from a Protestant family, and marrying into a totally agnostic family, we have little in common, spiritually, with my closest buds---my sibs---but we are united in our conservative views, and we all love each other dearly, though it makes me so sad that I have to always be in Apologetics Mode when I'm with them!
Actually, as I ponder this, the truth is I have many, many friends/acquaintances, each one belonging to a group: Family; Catholic HS gang; Church Community;the orthodox Catholic community; Protestant HS gang; DH's business colleagues; the Horsey Set; the music crowd; the dancing crowd; the Fencing gang; Kids Tennis connections; contractors and subs(can you tell we've been doing lots of renovating!!!);the Society Crowd (I call them, the "In Crowd" ); Old Family Friends;Pro-life connections; College friends; Childhood Friends; and so on and so forth. Within these circles, there is often overlap, which can help cement those friendships---though whether that's because it just makes it more convenient to be friends or whether it's because we have more in common, I'm not altogether sure! Within THAT overlap, we occasionally hit the motherlode: Eg we have a very, very small subset---3 to be exact--- that is orthodox Catholic,atttends the same Church and Mass, has large families, homeschools, rides AND does Suzuki music. With all that in common, you'd think we'd all be really tight friends...except we're all maxed out, time and energy-wise!!!!! We only see each other once a week at music! When we get together, we have a marvelous time, but it's the getting together part that gets tricky. Between us we have 25 children, need I say more? Even when Jupiter aligns with Mars, it doesn't necessarily mean you can have the luxury of a day-to-day friendship, though the Kindred Spirit factor is still there!
I guess the bottom line is my friends/acquaintances are all over the map. Seldom do any of us get together for dedicated adult time, rather it's usually in the context of one of the above activities. However, for my deepest friendships, I do feel a need to share a common orthodox faith and worldview. But hey, there's the exception of my dear siblings to give the lie there. Sigh. So much for analysing this one. Suffice it so say, true friends are a gift.
PS KristinaP's comments about "old" and "new" friends struck home. How true, how true!
Kelly in FL
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Natalia
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I have very good friends IRL. They are Christian women (most of them Catholic) that have the same views and the same goals that I do. i do think that their friendship makes me a better Christian and helps me to grow in holiness. We grow together and help each other along the way. I meet with some of them on a weekly basis. Every Tuesday night I meet with 4 other women for about 2 hours and we share our lives, our struggles, our successes, and we do some fun things too!
On the other hand, from the group, I am the only one with young children and I am the only one that homeschools. So even though I share with them that part of my life, I can only share it in theory.
I have found homeschooling isolating. I find myself less social and less open to new frienships that I used to be. The time that SAHM spend socializing at the gym or going to lunch with other women, I spend at home teaching my kids. I have come to that realization within the last year and tried to branch out and meet other people besides the people in the Community I belong to (the women in my group are part of the community). But I discovered that I don't fit well in other groups. I am a Catholic homeschoolers who belongs to a Charismatic Community. I don't fit in with the Church groups because i homeschool. The Catholic homeschoolers ( a very small group) don't understand Real Learning typeof schooling and they don't understand why I belong to an echumenical community. I don't fit with the large protestant groups because I am a Catholic. So I have made no new friends but acquaintances.
I also think that there are a lot of people out there that don't have the time or the inclination to form a friendship. A friendship needs time to sprout and and time to grow.
I have good friends from high school with which i still keep in contact, I have good friends from college that I keep in contact with. I have good friends here that I am in touch with. The commom thread that keeps those friendships alive is the Lord.
The one thing that I don't have right now that I wish I had is a friend next door or accross the street. A friend like Lucy and Ethel. Somebody that will come every day for a cup of tea and to catch up on life. Somebody I could call on the phone for silly things. But then, who has the time for tea and silly things...
Natalia
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Faith and Friendship
