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JennGM
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Is Pope poised to sanction condoms?
This article has been passed on to me in two sources. My area of weakness of searching is news stories...finding out the accuracy and what other Catholic conservatives know about it.
So, can anyone fill me in here?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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kingvozzo
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I have heard a bit about these discussions going on. It reminds of the study that was done regarding birth control in the 1960's. Untill the Pope approves the mentioned document, it really doesn't have any standing. I doubt that Benedict XVI would approve it.
I also question the thinking behind looking at relations between spouses when one is infected with AIDS as an issue requiring "self-defense." That doesn't seem to reflect Church teaching regarding marital relations. I could see this thinking behind a genuine act of aggression, such as rape (ie, victim asking attacker to use a condom) but it doesn't make sense to me in the context of marriage.
OTOH, I have also heard that it is acceptable to engage in marital relations with your spouse even if your spouse insists on using contraception, if you have made your objections known. Is this possible exception for AIDS an extension of this thinking?
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JennGM
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Noreen,
My sister just called me and I told her the same thing, that having news leak out like this was similar to when Paul VI had the commission investigating B/C. So I won't jump the gun, and will tell others to wait until the ruling is final.
I can't see it happening. There is one bishop (cardinal?) in Africa that follows the church's teaching on abstinence instead of using the condoms and his dioces the AIDS number is down, unlike in other areas where they have been disobedient in pushing the condoms...their number isn't going down.
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Elizabeth
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MacBeth is great at deciphering news and spin. I'm flagging this for her. My suspicion is that she's all tuckered out since Alice's May Crowning was today. But this will interest her.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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What strikes me is the entire slant of the article. It's almost blatantly anti-Catholic and it's erroneous. For instance, "pro-life" is in quotes, as if the Church weren't pro-life in reality. And then there's this:
"Ever since Pope Paul VI's 1968 encylical Humanae Vitae, contraception has been taboo within the church."
Well no, contraception has ALWAYS been taboo, since the Church began and it was taboo in all other Christian deonominations until the 1940s. I'd love to see the stats Jenn refers to above, comparing dioceses and compliance and AIDS rates.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I'd love to see the stats Jenn refers to above, comparing dioceses and compliance and AIDS rates. |
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I'll have to dig it up. I remember seeing this cardinal interviewed on EWTN last year during all the funeral ceremonies and such and heard this. Dh had some more info, had heard it before. Probably someone else has more at their fingertips.
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MicheleQ
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Lots of discussion on this over at Jimmy Akin.org
Personally I don't see it happening. This Time magazine article seems most accurate to me.
God bless,
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JennGM wrote:
| There is one bishop (cardinal?) in Africa that follows the church's teaching on abstinence instead of using the condoms and his dioces the AIDS number is down, unlike in other areas where they have been disobedient in pushing the condoms...their number isn't going down. |
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I remember hearing about the decline of HIV from 15% to 5% in Uganda because of abstinence.
Here is one article I found (haven't read the entire article), however it shows the % decline.
Catholic Education Article
From the article:
But while condoms clearly won't solve the HIV/AIDS crisis in Africa (or anywhere else), there is an approach that will: abstinence. Indeed, in African nations — where HIV/AIDS is transmitted almost exclusively through sexual contact — abstinence is the obvious solution.
And better yet, it has been proven effective.
Uganda at one time had the highest rate of HIV/AIDS in the world. Starting in the mid to late 1980s, their government instituted a program to teach abstinence before marriage and fidelity to one's partner afterwards. They only reluctantly advised condoms for high risk groups (like prostitutes) whom they knew would not accept the other two approaches.
Billboards, radio announcements, print ads, and school programs all promoted the virtues of abstinence and fidelity to prevent HIV/AIDS.
The results were astonishing.
In 1991, the prevalence rate of HIV was 15%. By 2001, it had dropped to 5%. It was the biggest HIV infection reduction in world history.
Among pregnant women, the drop was even more dramatic (as reported by CNS News, January 13, 2003). In 1991, 21.2% of expecting mothers tested positive for HIV. By 2001, the number had plummeted to 6.2%. Compare this with the 2001 numbers from Kenya (15%), Zimbabwe (32%), and Botswana (38%). All three countries focus on condom distribution, and all three countries continue to see their rates rise.
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MacBeth
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Elizabeth wrote:
| MacBeth is great at deciphering news and spin. I'm flagging this for her. My suspicion is that she's all tuckered out since Alice's May Crowning was today. But this will interest her. |
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I am totally beat; after Alice's I went to BJ's...this after moving Erik the White into the house yesterday.
I have read some of this, starting last week with that nutty Cardinal's comments. Ever hopeful, I suspect this is much ado about nothing...Don is a bit less hopeful (he is a pessimist through and through!).
I can see why the media is all over this. If the Vatican says "yes," they can say that the Church was wrong all along. If the Vatican says "no," they can say that the church is still behind the times, and now it's killing people. It's a lose-lose situation as far as the media is concerned, so the Vatican should rightly (if I may be so bold to suggest  ) be considering the spiritual aspects of the question, and not the circling press sharks.
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SaraP
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Vatican office clarifies: teaching on condoms and AIDS will not change
Although I have to admit I cannot figure out what Msgr. Soto is saying in that last paragraph.
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I haven't read any of the articles, but wanted to jump in here that this was discussed heavily on EWTN radio last week - or maybe I just happened to be tuning in a the right time?
New here, new to practicing Catholicism, relatively new to Catholicism - take this with a grain of salt.
The "Nutty" cardinal was discussed on a Kreska radio show a few days ago - apparently he has a history of saying some really crazy things. Even, at one time, criticizing Pope John Paul II - when he was living (it was added that he probably wouldn't do it now). The priest being interviewed had several examples of this particular Cardinal's "liberal" thinking.
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kingvozzo
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Me neither! 
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teachingmom
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The only article I saw on this was in the Arlington Catholic Herald last week. I found the Cardinal's statements to be very disturbing, and not only about condom use. About half of the article I read was on the topic of abortion, and his quotes related to abortion were downright frightening.
Thanks for the links to the more encouraging articles on the subject.
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The latest from Catholic News Agency:
Church "will not budge one inch" on issue of condom use, says Cardinal Lopez Trujillo
Vatican City, May. 04, 2006 (CNA) - In an exclusive interview with Colombia's Radio Cadena Nacional (RCN), Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, president of the Pontifical Council for the Family, said the Catholic Church would not back down from its long-standing teaching on condoms and the prevention of AIDS.
The cardinal told RCN that the Vatican "maintains unmodified the teaching on condoms" and said the recent statements by Italian Cardinal Maria Martini "are nothing more than his own personal opinions which do not reflect [Church] teaching."
Cardinal Lopez Trujillo said Pope Benedict XVI has not ordered any studies about modifying the prohibition on condom use. "As a dicastery we do not have any instruction or any indication to the contrary, to carry out a study about something new with regards to condoms," he stated.
The Colombian prelate said Cardinal Martini "should explain how the condom prevents AIDS if it is true he said it is a lesser evil."
The Church believes the only way to truly combat AIDS, Cardinal Lopez Trujillo said, is through fidelity and chastity, which are the only morally acceptable means. Contraception, the Church teaches, damages the integrity of the full gift of self, which is intrinsic to the sexual act.
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JennGM
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MicheleQ wrote:
The latest from Catholic News Agency:
Church "will not budge one inch" on issue of condom use, says Cardinal Lopez Trujillo |
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I saw that article...good news for verification. Trujillo is so fantastic. When I was looking for the old VIS story, I came across this article from 2003 FAMILY VALUES VERSUS SAFE SEX A Reflection by His Eminence, ALFONSO CARDINAL LÓPEZ TRUJILLO, President, Pontifical Council for the Family, December 1, 2003.
Briefly looking over it yesterday I thought there's just no way the position would change.
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mumofsix
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Sorry about that but here is my brother's blog with the report from HLI Rome: I am on a learning curve with internet referencing.
Jane.
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mumofsix
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Here is the report from HLI Rome on this topic, which is very clear and readable.
Jane.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: News Article
