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SaraP
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| Posted: April 03 2006 at 6:59pm | IP Logged
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We have been celebrating feast days by having some sort of little treat (green donuts on St. Patrick's day and so on) and reading a story book about the saint and my 4.5yo DS wants nothing to do with it.
I've asked him why and he says that saints "aren't his thing because he is a tool-guy" (I did point out that St. Joseph was a carpenter, but he was unimpressed).
He's a very, very sensitive kid with a vivid imagination and easily frightened by things in books and movies, but I can't see anything that could have upset him in the saint books we have read. He also seems more embarassed than frightened when I ask him about them. Any ideas what's going on here?
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lapazfarm
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Has he somehow gotten the impression that caring about matters of faith (and therefore saints) is a girly thing? I've heard of this happening sometimes when mom is the main teacher of the faith in a family. Perhaps if dh spoke to him about his love for saints he might think of it as more manly?
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abcmommy
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| Posted: April 04 2006 at 9:32am | IP Logged
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I'd try a different series of books. Maybe the ones you choose are not appealing to him, even tho you like them?
He is awfully little. Maybe you could just tell him the story as you celebrate and he would imagine it in his head and not be overwhelmed (if this is an issue) with the book' interpretation/ illustration.
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ALmom
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| Posted: April 04 2006 at 10:45am | IP Logged
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Is it a 4 yo you are talking about? Our 4 yo is quite a manipulator/charmer and he will say things just to see the reaction. So one minute he will yell that he HATES music and is going to fight all the music. Then another time he'll tell us he likes music and will pull out a mini violin. We suspect that the 11yo coached him to say that he hated music. Then he saw the initial power he had in expressing this to get everyone's attention and that kept it going for a while.
4 yo are interesting people!
Janet
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humanaevitae
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| Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:15am | IP Logged
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My almost 4yo ds told me that he doesn't like the saints because they always die  It does seem like many books end with the saint dieing! Instead he wants to be a firefighter who he thinks can never die. He saw a firefighting video once which explained their trucks, etc... he was impressed because it did not end with how and when they died.
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ALmom
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| Posted: April 05 2006 at 3:06pm | IP Logged
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Read about St Michael the Archangel - he doesn't die  . The 3 - 4 yo mind is so interesting!!
Janet
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Sarah
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| Posted: April 10 2006 at 9:10am | IP Logged
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Don't worry. 4 yo's grow out of a lot of things. Maybe take a break from mentioning saints for a while and come to him with religious teaching from a different angle. Don't forget, at 4 yo, just learning about all the things around him that God created is a good place to start.
I have a kid, ds7, who really doesn't like to be pushed religiously and who is very sensitive and a tool-guy, too. I try to sneak stuff in.
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Martha
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I wouldn't worry about it either.
Not everyone is "into the saints" as much as others.
Sometimes they just haven't found a saint they can identify with yet.
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Sarah
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SaraP wrote:
| He also seems more embarassed than frightened when I ask him about them. Any ideas what's going on here? |
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After rereading this, I realize he is much like my ds7 who gets embarrassed about praying and things like that. I think we're dealing with a sensitive person who needs some space and will blossom on their own time. Rather than my ds9 who likes it all right direct and intense. Does that make sense? My ds7, who seem like yours, gets tears in his eyes at emotional times in movies and books. He cried when we had to release our butterflies we raised. He needs me to back off and watch him from a distance. Anyway, your guy will be fine.
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SaraP
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| Posted: April 10 2006 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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Quote:
| I think we're dealing with a sensitive person who needs some space and will blossom on their own time. |
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Yes, I think this is probably true.
We have used books from several different authors and only the one about St. Nicholas has mentioned the saint dying so I don't think either of those is the problem.
DH is not Catholic (yet!  ), so that could be part of the problem, but it doesn't really seem like it. This isn't an 'I'm too cool for this' sort of attitude, it's genuine distress.
Backing off . . . Ok, fine I have already told him that he doesn't have to listen if he doesn't want to, but how to manage on a practical level?
He is now demanding that anytime the rest of us do ANY religious reading we go to the far end of the house and read only in a whisper so that he can't hear even a word and will sit in his room and yell at the top his lungs (making it impossible to read) if we don't. Usually I just ignore him when he issues unreasonable demands, but I hate to turn religion into a power struggle.
And what about mass? Do I insist that he attend? Let him stay home with DH (which means that DH misses mass)? Get a babysitter?
He's 4 . . . he will outgrow this, right?
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SaraP
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| Posted: April 10 2006 at 10:17am | IP Logged
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I asked him if he would like to play with his good shepherd and sheep figures while the rest of us are reading and think about God that way and he agreed, so that problem is solved for now.
But thinking about this in a more general way has me wondering . . . how much direction do you give your children's spiritual development when they are very young? How much do you insist that they participate?
My gut says that for the most part it is enough to model faith, talk about it casually throughout the day and introduce stories and traditions allowing them to participate or not as they choose. But again, do you allow a preschooler to refuse to go to mass? Mass hasn't actually been an issue, so maybe I am borrowing trouble, but I'd still be interested in what those of you with more experience think.
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lapazfarm
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For our family, mass attendance is not optional. We all go and that is understood. But I have never had a child who didn't want to go, so I cannot speak from experience there. However, I may be wrong here, but it sounds like you may be asking a bigger question about child rearing: how much power and autonomy do you give a child at each age?
I would think about mass attendance this way-is he really old enough to make this decision on his own? Or does he still need your guidance here? Just as we allow a little leeway in choosing what to eat and what to wear, choices need to be age appropriate. As you know, you can't let a child eat candy for every meal or go out in the winter without shoes on, even if he wants to. He is not old enough to make this decision, so you must step in and plan his meals and see that he is appropriately dressed for the weather. Otherwise his little body would suffer, and we don't want that. Mass is food for the soul and we don't want that to suffer, either. So sometimes we have to step in and say "this is good for you whether you realise it or not." I think it is our responsibility as parents. But that is just me.
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Sarah
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lapazfarm wrote:
| For our family, mass attendance is not optional. We all go and that is understood. |
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Same here. Period. My kids have groaned about it before, but I just smile and act like I'm not listening and its very short-lived.
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SaraP
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Quote:
| However, I may be wrong here, but it sounds like you may be asking a bigger question about child rearing: how much power and autonomy do you give a child at each age? |
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You're right, but not with regards to everything, just in his relious training.
Obviously a 4yo isn't ready to decide for himself what he eats for dinner or when he goes to bed and I have no problem making and enforcing those decisions even when he protests.
But nurturing his faith seems different because faith is a relationship and the first movement is always GOD'S.
I can see insisting on mass attendance because it's something we do as a family, but what about prayer? Is it appropriate or wise to insist that a child prays whether he wants to or not? Or with an older child does one MAKE them receive the Eucharist or go to confession even if they protest?
Or maybe I am making an artificial distinction and insisting relious participation - even if it's just going through the motions - is even more important than insisting that the kids are in bed with the lights out (even if they aren't asleep yet) at a reasonable hour?
Like I said before this is all hypothetical at this point and maybe won't ever come up, but I'm wondering what you all think and why.
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humanaevitae
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I always have the same concern. If I "push" religon too much when they are not open I'm afraid they will really harden their heart and make them hate it. OTOH, I'm afraid that if I left it up to the child's direction God would be forgotten.
When my 6yo daughter was 4 she decided that she didn't think God was real and if he was real that she didn't like him as he wasn't that good at being God. She has came a long way but still doesn't feel much emotion for him. She is good at sharing and helping others compared to her brothers but I don't know how much of it is "for the Lord". She doesn't complain about going to Mass anymore but is not fond of praying at all! She loves religious stories and activities.
The other day we were talking about Good Friday and I mentioned casually that we will spend that day more quietly than normal. She freaked out and adamently reminded me that she HATED sacrifices. She is not persuaded by me explained his great love for her as she doesn't "feel" it. I have not yet found any media that will stir her heart.
WOW- I really hyjacked this post! 
But...I am at a loss here...
Another aspect is that her struggles on these issues mirror my own although I didn't have them at her young age. It is easier for me because I know God intellectually and have briefly felt him emotionally. I so hoped my kids would not struggle with this and would just realize and accept his love. I really want my kids to have that "personal relationship with Jesus".
So again the question is how much should one push and insist on and what should just be gently encouraged but not forced?
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: DS doesn't like saints
