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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Jan 22 2009 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
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Madeline Nugent, author of The Divine Office for Dodos has graciously offered to answer any questions we might have about praying The Divine Office / The Liturgy of the Hours.
Please feel free to ask any question (no matter how big or small) in this thread, and she will chime in when she can. These can be questions about the DETAILS of praying The Divine Office, or questions about the Liturgy of the Hours, in general.
This is so exciting to have this opportunity to ask any and all questions about this treasure of the Church! I wanted to title the thread "Anything you ever wanted to know about praying the Divine Office, but were too afraid to ask" ....but it was too long.... 
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Cay Gibson
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Madeline,
Welcome and thank you so much for taking the time to join us and answer questions.
Your book is inspiring and so easy to follow. I was happy it was recommended here and even happier I got myself a copy. 
We certainly had a lot of questions concerning the Divine Office/Liturgy of Hours earlier this month.  Now that the first month of the year is well underway, I guess we all got overwhelmed.
My first question is: I have found the Magnificat to be a perfectly workable, gentle approach to praying throughout my day. I find that the daily reading, psalms, saint reading, and daily meditation are so varied that it keeps me renewed each day and always seems to speak to me on a personal level.
I'm aware that it has elements of the LoH in it. How fully does the Magnificat (recited faithfully) incorporate the Liturgy of the Hours into our days? Is it a good fit for a busy Catholic mother? Or should I think of gradually doing a more patterned LoH?
Second question: I've also been thinking alot of about what Jenn wrote in the other posting:
Quote:
| St. Benedict was using the family as inspiration to form his Rule, and now we can use the Monastic rule or life as inspiration, but I think only as "inspiration" not a plan of life. |
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Jenn was not referring to the use of the Liturgy of Hours as a form of "inspiration" but that's where my thoughts got directed.
I tend to get caught up in the "inspiration" of an idea and then, when I don't see myself doing a very good job of keeping it up, I feel I've failed.
How does one keep feeling inspired by the daily repetition of the Liturgy of the Hours or does it become a daily habit that teaches us patience, orderliness, and discipline?
I'm not sure if I'm writing that clearly. In today's world it seems everyone is looking for inspiration and uplift-ment whereas religious orders (who would be using the LoH) seem to follow a more orderly and disciplined way of life and do not allow emotions to guide their actions.
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Cay Gibson
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SuzanneG
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Madeline ~
I have a couple general questions for now.....
1. How long has THESE psalms, antiphons, intercessions, etc. been The Liturgy of the Hours as it is written in the breviaries that we have? In other words, how often does it change, if ever?
2. Also, is there something (book, website, bible) that you would recommend for understanding and getting more out of the Psalms?
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Suzanne in ID
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hylabrook1
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I am presently praying (trying at least) Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer. These are SO rich that I really want to include the Office of Readings and the Daytime Prayers. More of a good thing can only get better, right? BUT I find it difficult to add the whole Office and continue with a daily Rosary, possibly the Angelus, and possibly Daily Mass. It seems to me that I would need to be a cloistered contemplative to pull all of this off! I really appreciate Jenn's comment about needing to adapt our prayer habits to work with the needs of our families. Still, I would love to know how others work out their prayer routines.
Peace,
Nancy
P.S. If this is going too far OT or is in the wrong forum, please move it or ask me to repost in the better place. Thanks.
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DODOS
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Hi, all,
I'm sorry it's taken me a while to get to your questions, but I'll try to answer. I'm not real savvy regarding forums so if I am not doing this right or missed any questions, please let me know.
Capital letter answers:
My first question is: I have found the Magnificat to be a perfectly workable, gentle approach to praying throughout my day. YES, IT IS I find that the daily reading, psalms, saint reading, and daily meditation are so varied that it keeps me renewed each day and always seems to speak to me on a personal level. THAT'S GREAT. KEEP USING IT!
I'm aware that it has elements of the LoH in it. YES How fully does the Magnificat (recited faithfully) incorporate the Liturgy of the Hours into our days? I DON'T READ THE MAGNIFCAT SO DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSELY IT FOLLOWS THE LOH. SORRY. Is it a good fit for a busy Catholic mother? Or should I think of gradually doing a more patterned LoH? YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY ANY RULE OF LIFE TO PRAY THE LOH SO USE WHAT WORKS TO BRING YOU CLOSER TO GOD. AFTER ALL, THAT'S THE GOAL, RIGHT?
How does one keep feeling inspired by the daily repetition of the Liturgy of the Hours or does it become a daily habit that teaches us patience, orderliness, and discipline? YOU CAN GET BORED BUT THE DISCIPLINE IS THERE. HOWEVER, I HAVE FOUND THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SEEMS TO SPEAK TO ME THROUGH THE LOH EVEN IF I HAVE READ SOMETHING SEVERAL TIMES. A NEW INSIGHT COMES FROM A PHRASE, WORD, ETC. IF WE ARE FAITHFUL, GOD DOES THE REST.
1. How long has THESE psalms, antiphons, intercessions, etc. been The Liturgy of the Hours as it is written in the breviaries that we have? In other words, how often does it change, if ever? I BELIEVE THIS REVISION WAS MADE IN THE 1970'S. THE CHURCH CAN CHANGE THE LOH. THERE IS NO SET TIME FRAME FOR ANY CHANGES.
2. Also, is there something (book, website, bible) that you would recommend for understanding and getting more out of the Psalms? THERE ARE SOME BOOKS THAT TALK ABOUT PRAYING THE PSALMS BETTER AND YOU CAN FIND THEM ON AMAZON.COM IT DOES HELP TO UNDERSTAND THE TIMES WHEN THE PSALMS WERE WRITTEN. LOOK FOR BOOKS ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE PSALMS.
I am presently praying (trying at least) Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer. These are SO rich that I really want to include the Office of Readings and the Daytime Prayers. More of a good thing can only get better, right? BUT I find it difficult to add the whole Office and continue with a daily Rosary, possibly the Angelus, and possibly Daily Mass. It seems to me that I would need to be a cloistered contemplative to pull all of this off! I really appreciate Jenn's comment about needing to adapt our prayer habits to work with the needs of our families. Still, I would love to know how others work out their prayer routines. THE CONFRATERNITY OF PENITENTS MEMBERS PRAY ALL 7 HOURS AND DAILY MASS IS PART OF THE REQUIREMENT. A ROSARY IS SUGGESTED AS WELL. HOW DO WE PULL IT OFF? WE TAKE A YEAR TO ADAPT OUR LIVES TO FIT IN THE PRAYERS, BUT IF YOU HAVE SMALL KIDS, YOU MAY HAVE TO DO OTHER PRAYER OPTIONS AS THAT WOULD BE CHARITABLE TO THE CHILDREN WHO NEED YOUR ATTENTION. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THESE THINGS HAVE TO BE WORKED INTO GRADUALLY. DO THE BEST YOU CAN AND DON'T WORRY. GOD UNDERSTANDS YOUR HEART.
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stefoodie
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Hello, Madeline, and thanks so much for taking time to join us!! Welcome to the 4Real boards.
One question for now :
Though it's not required for individual recitation, I would love to learn the hymns in the LOTH -- would make it more fun for the kids to join in as well. I've tried googling some of them but haven't had much luck. Is there a resource you could recommend for learning the hymns?
Thank you!
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stef
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DODOS
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stefoodie wrote:
Is there a resource you could recommend for learning the hymns?
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UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T KNOW ANYWHERE TO LEARN THE HYMNS OTHER THAN GOING TO A CONVENT AND ASKING THE NUNS TO SING THE SONGS WHILE YOU RECORD THEM. IF YOU KNOW OF A PLACE TO LEARN THE HYMNS, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IT, TOO!
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SuzanneG
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Madeline~
When are you supposed to insert the Antiphon between each strophe of the Psalm? Always? Or do you sometimes NOT insert it?
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Suzanne in ID
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DODOS
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The only time you insert the antiphon between the strophes is for the Invitatory Psalm. All the others, the antiphon always preceeds the psalm and then you pray the psalm strophe by strophe and you can pray the antiphon at the end, again, after the Glory Be. (For those unfamiliar with terms, a strophe is a verse of a psalm).
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MarilynW
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Madeline
I have been using Christian Prayer (one volume) - just doing Morning and Night Prayer - it is such a blessing, but I can only find my way because I have the 2009 guide. I had a couple of questions to better understand (pardon my ignorance):
- Please would you explain what the Common and Proper are?
- For saint days - do we have the choice of the regular day's prayers or the saint prayers?
- for the invitatory - can we say our choice of Psalm as it gives us some alternatives to Psalm 95
Thank you
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VeronicaB
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I read a book called Music of Silence which helped me with praying the hours - or at least being conscious of the flavour of each hour, I don't actually get the psalms done. Anyway, that book linked to a website called gratefulness.org done by a monk in the field of ecumenism between buddhists and catholics - interesting. Seems borderline modernist at times, but i found it really helpful. Also seems related to Cloister Walk which also wasn't 100% orthodox Catholic but good perspective on the hours in life.
Found a link to the flash animation that describes the hours with reference to some Fra Angelico angels:
Meet the Angel of the hour. I don't get round to sitting down with peace and quiet, but I do come back to these meditations on what each of the hours is telling us.
For learning chant hymns see my book A New Book of Old Hymns I tried to get each hymn linked to a free mp3 and midi to listen to, but kinda lost momentum.
These hymns are favourites from my local Latin Mass, gleaned from the Liber Usualis mostly. Probably different for the hours, though they sing terce and sext either side of Sunday Mass and compline after evening Mass.
It would be interesting to design a resource to bring all these pieces together.
Veronica
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hylabrook1
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I have a question about the Gospel Canticles. My one volume Christian Prayer says after the Morning Canticle to pray a Glory Be before repeating the antiphon. At Evening Prayer, after the Magnificat, it just says, "antiphon as usual". From reading Dodos, I had the idea that the Glory Be should again come between the end of the Magnificat and the final recitation of the antiphon. Similarly for Night Prayer... So, is there a Glory Be in those places even though the Prayer book doesn't specifically mention it?
Thank you.
Peace,
Nancy
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DODOS
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Thanks for your questions. Capital letter response:
I have been using Christian Prayer (one volume) - just doing Morning and Night Prayer GREAT - it is such a blessing, but I can only find my way because I have the 2009 guide. I had a couple of questions to better understand (pardon my ignorance):
- Please would you explain what the Common and Proper are? OH, DEAR. YOU NEED TO READ THE DIVINE OFFICE FOR DODOS FOR FULL EXPLANATIONS. BUT, IN BRIEF, THE COMMON IS PART OF THE OFFICE THAT IS USED FOR MANY DIFFERENT CELEBRATIONS WHILE THE PROPER IS FOR ONE PARTICULAR SAINT OR FEAST.
- For saint days - do we have the choice of the regular day's prayers or the saint prayers? IF THE SAINT HAS A PRAYER, YOU USE THAT ONE IF IT IS AN OBLIGATORY MEMORIAL. AGAIN, YOU NEED TO READ DODOS FOR FULL EXPLANATION. I KNOW THAT MY ANSWER IS GOING TO SPARK MORE QUESTIONS.
- for the invitatory - can we say our choice of Psalm as it gives us some alternatives to Psalm 95 YOU HAVE TO USE ONE OF THE CHOICES THEY GIVE YOU. YOU DON’T HAVE PERMISSION TO USE ANY PSALM.
Thank you
I have a question about the Gospel Canticles. My one volume Christian Prayer says after the Morning Canticle to pray a Glory Be before repeating the antiphon. YES At Evening Prayer, after the Magnificat, it just says, "antiphon as usual".YOU PRAY THE GLORY BE, THEN THE ANTIPHON From reading Dodos, I had the idea that the Glory Be should again come between the end of the Magnificat and the final recitation of the antiphon. CORRECT Similarly for Night Prayer.CORRECT.. So, is there a Glory Be in those places even though the Prayer book doesn't specifically mention it? YOU BET. THE ONLY TIME YOU DON’T PRAY THE GLORY BE IS AFTER THE CANTICLE OF DANIAL WITH ALL THE BLESS THE LORD’S IN IT (DANIEL 3: 57-88)
GOD BLESS, MADELINE
Thank you.
Peace,
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MarilynW
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Thank you Madeline.
My husband has also written me a long explanation of the Common and Proper - I am going to read it tonight.
Blessings
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hylabrook1
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Are we still able to ask questions? It's been a while since this thread was active. Today I have been praying from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary. With this Common, as I've also noticed with others, there are no Psalms given with Daytime Prayer. Am I to use the Psalmody from the day as if it were in Ordinary time (like today do I use the Daytime Prayer Psalms for Wednesday of the Eighteenth Week in Ordinary Time?) Also, today, and as I've seen sometimes on other days, there is one Antiphon given for Mid-day Prayer, instead of 3 separate Antiphons that might be used with the 3 Psalms that I'm thinking should be prayed. When/how does that Antiphon get used?
Thanks for any help with this.
Peace,
Nancy
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SuzanneG
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Nancy:
I'll give Madeline the heads up that there is another question over here!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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stefoodie
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I never got to say thank you to Madeline for answering my question, so....
THANKS!
(Since I've asked my question I've found a few places that have links to hymns online, but I'm afraid I'm not organized enough and didn't keep track of them! If I stumble upon them again, I'll post here :D )
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stef
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Ask Questions about Liturgy of the Hours
