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Maturemomg
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
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I have a padlock we use on our TV. Sorry to say, but my kids not disciplined enough to consistently NOT watch when not allowed.
I put sharp knives where my toddler can't get them.
And so on....
But I'm curious- do unschoolers tend to set fewer limits? I suspect yes.
I'm pretty lenient with many things.
I DO allow my kids at a fairly young age (3-4) to begin using a sharp knife, under supervision.
I set my older babies/toddler right on my kitchen counter/island where they "could" fall off.
We don't have electrical outlet covers with the current toddler. We have had them with other children, but this one is real mellow and stays away (consistently) from that which she has been told no. (In other words- she an EASY kiddo!) 
I tend NOT to tell my kids (boys mostly) to "get down" or "You're too high." I recall once dh and I were sitting in a secluded area outside, the kids were playing. My second ds was about 2 and VERY coordinated. An extension ladder was up against the house and he was exploring that. He started to climb up it and dh was going to fetch him. I said no (my 11th commandment is "Thou shalt not thwart"). I said he would only go as far as he felt comfortable and then stop. Well, apparently this lad (who caused more than few gray hairs for me) went ALL the way up to the (relatively low) porch roof, walked around there for a while, then came back down. I was amazed. (I HAD seen him back down at times.) I'm glad I acted the way I did.
We have never used kid gates to prevent babies from being on the stairs. They learn. (And we have tile floors at the bottom. We DO put a folded blanket at the bottom for a few weeks and try to watch and assist, but no gates.)
Now, I have 7 kids. 4 of them are (or were) active boys. So are/were the girls but boys are just rougher. We have never had a broken bone, and stitches only once. Bumps and bruises, sprains, but nothing serious. So it works this way for us.
Some people would actually consider setting my child on the counter abusive.... I don't think that way.
And many will have different levels of their comfort in terms of "not thwarting". That's fine.
I limit the TV and computer because those things are somehow different than natural circumstances. I don't know. I just know that I don't want my kids sitting in front of them for too long for lots of reasons.
I also limit food, sort of. We don't have lots of sweets or sugar. They can eat as much as they want of many foods, but not all.
So, what kind of limits do you set?
Do you think unschoolers set fewer?
Do you think the two are related?
Yours in Christ,
Kathy
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 7:43pm | IP Logged
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Oh Kathy, are you sure you're not my twin 
I just posted on the other thread about my son at age 3 who climbed into the rafters in the garage without a ladder..
One of my daughters at age 2 climbed up the chimney sweeps extension ladder.. until she was at the top of the ladder well above the roof line.
it's a regular circus around here I tell ya
And then people are shocked at me staying calm in the face of this.. because my response was to say in that semi-bored but mean it voice "ok, come down".. I just tell people I'm shell shocked and besides that.. if I panicked, so would the child and then *I* would be climbing that ladder to go after the child.. instead of the child climbing back down on their own. I'd much rather the second
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Maturemomg
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
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LOL
I had to laugh. Last month I was at a real life (inter)national gathering of Catholic moms from Cmomc, an on-line Cath moms community. So I knew most of these moms but only as on-line friends. Some brought babies. Some also brought girls 10-14. For various reasons, I had brought my 12 dd, my 3 yo dd, and my 17 yo ds (to help with driving, the 3 yo, and serve as general "man" of the gathering- carry suitcases, help as needed, etc.)
Anyway, Sunday AM he was supposed to serve Mass for the priest with us. Most of us are ready and someone comes and announces that M (my ds) is stuck in the elevator. My first question: "Did HE do something to screw it up?" which I didn't think he did (he didn't). Next question Does hotel staff know there is a problem? Yes. Okay, I sat back and went back to my conversation. SEVERAL moms were "concerned" that I didn't go "do something" (like what???) When they said something to me, I asked if he was scared (unlikely, and he wasn't), I just shrugged. THEY were all panicky. (It's not like the place was on fire...)
I think maybe after a few kids and some "experiences", you mellow out....
PS He did get out rather quickly. Thought they wouldn't let him climb out the escape hatch (which he thought would have been cool). And was able to serve Mass.
Yours in Christ,
Kathy
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Willa
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 10:34pm | IP Logged
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Maturemomg wrote:
| I have a padlock we use on our TV. Sorry to say, but my kids not disciplined enough to consistently NOT watch when not allowed. |
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SO you don't want to put them into near occasion of sin by tempting them to disobey. This makes sense to me.
Of course, the ultimate goal is that they CHOOSE to do right of their own volition; I was originally attracted to unschooling because I found that trusting our children (along with vigilance and safeguards of course) seemed to help them behave better. So that is what originally inspired my question; thanks for moving it to a thread of its own.
As you said, you tend not to interfere with areas where you think there is a probability they will be successful without intervention. .... like the climbing. That is how we usually do it too.
I have heard "we unschool but don't unparent" before but I would love to get at the principles behind that. What is the difference? If you can trust your children to learn what they need to know academically, why not morally and in other areas? This is not a rhetorical question -- I actually find it easier, personally, to parent flexibly than to educate that way. I'm not sure why that is -- perhaps because mothering comes more directly from my intuition and prayer life, and education seems more of a stretch.
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Willa
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 10:52pm | IP Logged
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probably because we're so indoctrinated into what education should look like.. it just makes us uneasy when it doesn't even come close
I know at least part of my motivation is that I'm simply outnumbered.. and because of the way my house is set up.. my pantry has to be in the garage for instance.. and since that puts it out of my sight and hearing, I lock it because it's more important to me to let the kids go play in the backyard freely (have to go through the garage to get to the backyard) than to control when they're allowed out to only the times I can be there to make sure they're not getting into things.. and even that is more things like toddlers dumping things than that they're not allowed in there.. the older kids may get the keys to go and get things out.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 04 2007 at 10:57pm | IP Logged
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oh and sometimes it's about economics.. if we get yogurt for mornings that we need quick and easy breakfast.. well.. I can't let them just eat it when they want to.. or what will we have to eat on the mornings that I need those things for.. and it's rather expensive to buy enough for 6 kids to just eat whenever they want.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Mary G
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| Posted: March 05 2007 at 7:39am | IP Logged
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Jodie -- it seems we are fairly sympatico! This is exactly what I think happens to me when I try to unschool too much:
JodieLyn wrote:
| probably because we're so indoctrinated into what education should look like.. it just makes us uneasy when it doesn't even come close |
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but then I think sometimes I also go overboard the other way with doing NO workbooks or much table work with my 7 & 8 yo because I absolutely HATED doing workbooks when I was little. I even "flunked" 2nd grade spelling because I refused to fill in the speller -- it was too repetitive and I knew how to spell the words .
JodieLyn wrote:
| I lock it because it's more important to me to let the kids go play in the backyard freely (have to go through the garage to get to the backyard) than to control when they're allowed out to only the times I can be there to make sure they're not getting into things.. and even that is more things like toddlers dumping things than that they're not allowed in there.. the older kids may get the keys to go and get things out. |
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Again, I agree here. My mom had a cabinet that had a key-lock on it -- some liquor but mostly the good treat stuff that she would buy a little of bit by bit for a few months before the big Christmas baking or whatever. I wish I had such a cabinet as I'll often go to make chocolate chip cookies or something and there are no more chocolate chips -- and no one owns up to it, but I think it's a case of one taking a little, and then another taking a little, and pretty soon there are 5 left in the 12oz bag! Some of that needs to be chalked up to "kids will be kids"....but some needs to be chalked up to my needing to take temptation out of their way.
For instance, my 8 yob LOVES playing on the computer and often goes over the time limit playing Age of Mythology or Age of Empires -- these are great games but it's like letting them sit and watch TV for hours; probably not the best use of their time. So, I now control those CDs and will let him "check them out" for a stated time period; if he doesn't get off in the time allotted, he loses the CDs for a bit. I'm trying to train him up in the right way -- to play when it's apprpriate but not get obsessive with it. We have a nephew who flunked out of college cuz he was too busy playing Xbox -- I'd rather be tough on my kids now then wait till they're 20 and OB about plaing games instead of living life.
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Willa
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| Posted: March 07 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
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I think I see what you are saying from your examples, Jodie Lyn. It's partly about logistics and meeting your goals while staying sane and safe. I am on that page too! 
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Willa
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 07 2007 at 3:04pm | IP Logged
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Another thought I had is that many kids need guidence in learning how to make choices.. given too much they're just overwhelmed.. so by limiting choices.. they can learn to make choices.. it's a matter of loosening as they learn - you don't want to be giving your 10 year old two choices in what they can wear like you would a 3 year old..
and sometimes a child won't connect consequences to choices.. like a child allowed to choose to eat junk food all the time may feel bleck but won't have the background to realize it's because of the way he's eating.. that child may need a parent to say no to the junk so that the child can eat healthy and learn the way they should feel.. so they can connect the feeling icky with not eating good food.. a child that has been raised eating good food.. will be more likely to connect eating a ton of junk to making them feel bad.. halloween is a good time to learn this
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Limits/controls on kids
