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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: April 25 2012 at 4:34pm | IP Logged
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I am not sure if I am posting this on the right board.
My oldest is so negative! I actually could not do school with him today because I am at the end of my rope with him and I don't know what to do. Within two minutes this morning I had already raised my voice and sent him to his room so I could cool off. I have prayed a lot about this.
Here are some details. Anything he thinks is hard, he complains about. I have tried to teach him good habits and I don't believe he is seeing this type of negative attitude in the house or from other sources. He gives up on anything that takes any effort. I have tried everything I can think of or read about. I have tried different ways to approach his school work, but nothing helps. Another thing is once he tells himself that it is hard, he can't do anything. I could offer him a thousand dollars for a correct answer to an easy question and he wouldn't be able to tell me. For example if I said "Time for math." He starts complaining (one of his hardest subjects). I say, "What is 2+2?" (Trying to be funny with something so easy.) And he would start crying and say "This is too hard, I can't do this, why do I have to do this." He wouldn't even know that I asked a silly easy math problem.
I really need some help (and prayers). Any ideas? I am considering the last resort of professional help and I really, really, really don't want to do that.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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mommy4ever
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| Posted: April 25 2012 at 6:51pm | IP Logged
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I take a pretty firm stance with this attitude. I experienced what you described with dd13 when she was 11....so it may be a stage.
I set her up in her room to work, so no one else was subject to bad attitude. And she was told giving up is not an option, that she could have what ever hissy fit she wanted, but the work had to be done, period. I told her if nothing was ever harder to do, we'd never learn anything new.
In about 2 weeks, her attitude calmed down some, and in about 2 months it was a rare thing. Now 2 years later, we still see the attitude on occasion, but she is thriving quite nicely.
I tell the same thing to dd8, learning is work, sometimes things don't catch as easily as others, we just need to be focused and try again.
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: April 25 2012 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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Cassie, I totally sympathize. You just totally described my oldest daughter, except throw in screaming and crying. This is not "just a phase" for her. She is over-dramatic about everything and complains and argues about everything anyway, but you throw in the element of something that requires effort and forget about it. 
I wish that I could offer some great words of wisdom. Here's how I have tried to survive so far:
1) Ignore it. Pretend she didn't say anything.
2) I make it clear that no amount of whining will get her out of doing the work, even if it means missing out on other things.
2) I will send her to her room for a time-out if she gets too fussy (where it is messing things up for her younger sisters), but she knows it will be that much longer until she gets to play on the computer or watch television.
3) Sometimes I print out extra work to add on top of what she already has (again, putting off the fun time).
4) On concepts where she does genuinely struggle, I try to regularly do review work to keep up that skill.
(She struggled through long division last semester in math. This semester she was required to occasionally do long division, and she would start screaming and crying and I would have to walk her through it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Finally, I made her do an entire page of long division on top of her regular work everyday. After three days she begged me to stop. I told her that if she could complete an entire worksheet correctly with out complaining or begging for help that she could stop the extra work. She did perfect. But I warned her that if she started crying and complaining about it being impossible again that we would go back to the extra work.)
Deep down I know this is a discipline issue (possibly tied with her natural temperament), but I am at a loss for how to handle it at this point. She's really too old to spank. And I could completely lower the boom on her and remove every single privilege she has until her behavior shaped up, but frankly I'm scared of the fall-out it would have on the younger kids because it would be like a nuclear explosion in our house.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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Amber-v
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| Posted: April 25 2012 at 11:57pm | IP Logged
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My 6 year old son tends this direction and I agree, it is really frustrating! This sort of behavior has always been a struggle with him, sometimes more than others. It will get better for awhile, then worse again... Lack of sleep seems to make it a lot worse. I saw it in my daughter (now 10) at that age, but we have largely worked through it. I can see her visably get herself under control at times though, when she is confronted with something really challenging. I sometimes think that a challenge triggers their fight or flight response!
When it does happen, we try really hard not to take it personally so we don't get mad about it - it just makes everything worse! Also, we don't let him get out of stuff by doing it - the work has to get done.
If he is falling into that sort of behavior, I will warn him that his attitude is not appropriate or respectful. If it persists, I will warn him that he will need to go sit outside on the back steps until he's ready to cooperate with a decent attitude. (it is a place where I can easily see him and there isn't anything interesting... And we can't hear him - much!) when he seems to have calmed down somewhat, I will go out, sit next to him and we will chat a little - not about the attitude, but about something he has noticed or I'll tell him something completely unrelated. After a bit I'll ask if he is ready to try again with a good attitude and he generally is (I can't think of a time when he hasn't been ready...). It seems to break the cycle and escalation and puts us on better terms again.
If it is in the middle of working on something, I will often have him run around the outside of the house three times then come back to the work. Generally that greatly improves his outlook, although I have had to send him out for another run once or twice! Again, breaking the cycle and the escalation makes such a difference.
I hope that helps! I will pray for you and your son.
Amber
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Amber
Mom to dd (born 2002), ds (2005), ds (2008), ds (2011), dd (11/2013)
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keac
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| Posted: April 26 2012 at 9:39pm | IP Logged
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Cassie,
I had only read your second sentence when I said to myself, "Bet he's 11." And sure enough!! I am going through this too, so you're not alone.
I don't have any sure answers but have found that setting him up for success whenever possible does help. And I find he needs more hand-holding through his lessons. More organizational help, more steps voiced out loud for him to follow the thought process, more incremental advances and more review. All these help set him up to be successful for the new material or more challenging work. I also scaled back for a time on lesson length. Fifteen minutes at a time, even.
I've read before that this is a time period of major brain reorganization---like a file cabinet where everything gets dumped into a big pile and resorted, organized and filed away again. The information/thought processes are there but more difficult to access in the meantime.
Sometimes exercises where you cross the body's meridian can help (passing an object across your body from one hand to the other and back again or you can Google T-Tapp Hoedowns.) Such can help stimulate both sides of the brain.
Give him advance warning, such as, "After you finish breakfast and morning chores you'll have until 9:30 to have some free time. We'll start our lessons then. No ifs, ands or buts." Then whenever he gets negative, simply sit, pleasantly but not responding---think stereotypical teenage 'blank' stare--- until he stops. Then quietly resume. Hopefully soon he'll get the picture that the sooner he cooperates---knowing you are on his side and there to assist him getting through---the sooner he can be on to other things.
Finally, Tammy Glaser in an article for ChildLight newsletter said it so well, "[Adults] can build a support system through a scaffolding (joint problem solving, self-regulation and warm encouragement)..."---likening our role to a scaffold which is erected during the building phase to assist in the construction of sure walls and beautiful lines; but is dismantled and taken away when the building is complete.
Hang in there!!
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Karen in Kansas City
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anitamarie
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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I recently listened to a talk by Susan Wise Bauer called "Homeschooling the Real Child". She talks about the fact that development spurts can trigger an inability to think straight (puberty anyone?  ) and that a child may all of a sudden not be able to work at the same level for a while. So, if this is a new thing with him, maybe it's that.
If not, then it could be a discipline issue. I like Barbara's approach. I have done similar things in the past with certain children. I have one child with whom I would never do it, because it would do much more harm to her than good - she's very sensitive. You know your child and what he can handle.
If he's really smart and things have always come easily up until now, then he might not know how to handle the challenge. If you can help him adjust to this then these can be great lessons in fortitude. He will learn to love a challenge and accomplishment.
The talk by Susan Wise Bauer is available at Peace Hill Press. I think it's like $5.00. It's very good.
Blessings,
Anita
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 5:03pm | IP Logged
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Thank you everyone for you advice and support. They all have been helpful!! Working on a game plan.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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Maureen
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| Posted: May 01 2012 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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I'm beginning to work on negative thinking in my own family. Recently, I heard a Christian speaker on the radio make a comment something like this, "We feel the way we feel, because we think the way we think." She offered this scriptural verse, "...be transformed by the renewing of your mind." [Romans 12:2] I am going to post different verses around the house to help change/transform our thinking. Here's my first one, "I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me." [Phillipians 4:13]
God Bless,
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Maureen, mom to 8 treasures
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: May 01 2012 at 12:47pm | IP Logged
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Maureen, I just put Psalm 141:3 on my bulletin board:
"Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth;
Keep watch over the door of my lips."
I'm considering a set of matching family tattoos.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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pumpkinmom
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Barbara C. wrote:
I'm considering a set of matching family tattoos. |
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: May 01 2012 at 2:32pm | IP Logged
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Another update!
I had been worried about one son's negative behavior causing the same in my other son, but what I should have been worried about was it rubbing off on me. After much thought and help from Dh, I realized that my usually upbeat and positive attitude has turned negative and ugly towards my children. No wonder I can't get him to change his attitude when all I put out is negative and complaining. I have found some resources to read to help me take a new look at my kids and change my attitude. We are also putting God back into our school time by starting with prayer and bible time first thing (I some how stopped doing this months ago). I guess months, if not years of trying to fix this problem has just about done me in! I guess we all need an attitude make over at this house. Please keep us in your prayers! This is very challenging.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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Maureen
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Barbara C. wrote:
"Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth;
Keep watch over the door of my lips."
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Barbara,
Great Scripture verse!
If anyone has any more helpful verses, please post!
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Maureen, mom to 8 treasures
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: May 11 2012 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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Update
I had a little Aha moment today. I finally figured out why my son is so negative about school. Read what he wrote in his freewriting today.
"I want to go up to school to be with my friends. And to learn, it will be so fun!!!!!!!!!!!!! But mom says NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Public school is not going to happen and he has been told that. This has always been a problem with him. I am in tears over this. I know my son and he is stubborn and if he has it in his head that he wants to go to public school it will stay there until he does. But, I know what is best and it will not happen. This is why he acts out during school time, won't study, won't learn, has a negative attitude about everything school related. I prayed and prayed for God to show me why he behaved this way and I now I got my answer. More praying to figure out how to fix it. I just really need some support right now. I don't have a single friend or family member that would understand. They would all say "send him to school." Ok, I just thought of one and I will be calling her next. It really is a sad day here at the house. I sent the boys to their rooms so I could be alone.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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stellamaris
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Oh, Cassie, my prayers are with you. 
Can you try to realize this is probably not a reflection on your parenting or educating of your son? It's so hard not to feel rejected and guilty all at the same time when a child wants to go to school. He probably just has a "grass is always greener" idea about school and wants to be with his friends. Can you discuss with him what he thinks he thinks he would like so much about school? If it is time with friends, maybe you could arrange more time with good friends for him or consider getting him involved in outside the home activities. I'm sure the academic work wouldn't be much different, just later at night!
This age is a tough one for boys (as was mentioned above) and they are generally a bit discontent as the natural changes begin to take place. A lot of exercise helps, plenty of sleep, and some fun in the day.
One approach I have taken (more than once, actually) to address this issue is to allow my boys to spend a day at the local public school with a friend. I made it clear to them that whether they went or not to a school eventually was my decision, but I wanted them to be able to satisfy their curiosity about school. After their visits, I asked them what they thought was good and what was bad about the school experience they had. I asked them if they thought they would get a better education at the school. I pointed out how little free time they would have during the day to pursue their own interests. Both times we did this, the boys decided to stay home on their own. It was great for me that they "bought in" to homeschooling as that point.
Only you know your son, and maybe sending him for a day would be too risky. In our case, it worked out well. It's one idea to think about, and I'm sure the Lord will inspire you (and perhaps a few of the ladies here) with other thoughts to deal with this predicament.
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Syncletica
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Is it possible that this is the time when he starts exerting his desire for autonomy?
I totally understand and agree with your position that public school is NOT an option. Period.
Can you maybe take a break for a week or so, and in that time find fun things to do together, and, perhaps, in that time, find the things he's really interested in. Then get the books from the library that will pique his interest in learning about them? Start to make him more responsible for his education within your boundaries, and perhaps he'll be more willing to take the bull by the horns?
I remember reading in an unschooling handbook a few years ago, of a couple who told their children from the start that they are responsible for their own education, but that they are required to have their own businesses by the time they are 16. And the children did it. If you can light that fire of a burning desire to learn, perhaps he'll take off and run with it?
Just a thought.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Need help with a negative child
