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mooreboyz
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| Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 5:39pm | IP Logged
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My 13 year old is giving me a little trouble and I am looking for advice. He is simply not doing schoolwork that he either doesn't understand or doesn't want to do. He had 5 weeks to put together an insect collection for his first science unit of the year. He was to have 50 different insects. He found 12. I gave him an extra week and he didn't get any more. He said he just couldn't find more. I didn't see him putting much effort into it. I have had to remind him several times a day to do this or that. If I don't check on him throughout the day he skips over stuff. I have never had to do this with him and I don't even have to with my 6 year old. I write out on the board each day everything they need to do. He had to spend an entire Sunday reading one weekend to complete his literature for the month. And today I discovered that he is way behind in his Spanish. When I asked him about the Spanish he said he doesn't feel he is learning anything from it. He also stated that he doesn't feel it is something necessary for him to know. And so hasn't been doing it even though he tells me daily that it is done.
The thing is (and I told him this) if he has an issue with something he needs to discuss it with me, not just not do it. He has also lied to me about having things done (spanish) when they were not. I feel like this is a real lack of respect issue and also that he is testing the result of his not doing his work. He has never given me issues like this before. Is it part of a teenage testing? What would you do? Give him an "F". Ok, then what? I told DH about his lack of seriousness this year and he threatened our son with going to public school...not really what I was hoping for and at this point I don't think ds cares. I think he's trying to see how much he can get away with.
So, how would you proceed?
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Jackie
7 boys - 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 years
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 6:04pm | IP Logged
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well gee, if you can't tell the truth then everything you say will have to be checked on.
And if you can't put the effort into school.. then we'll just have to reduce other things in your life until you have enough energy to put into school.. so no friends or computer or sports or whatever since you don't have the energy to put into school.. oh and we'll need to be sure you're getting enough sleep so maybe bedtime needs to be earlier.. and... whatever else I could think of and connect.. oh but more chores since you do need some form of exercise to have energy 
And generally when they tell me "I don't care" then I know we found something effective.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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stefoodie
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What's his "hot button"?
For our 14-yo, it's social events. Not dancing or partying but just seeing his friends on a regular basis, e.g., the next event is a Halloween dress up trip where they gather canned goods for the needy. Or spending some time on Facebook. Or being allowed to watch a movie.
For our 11-yo, it's getting to spend time on the Wii, or going out to eat, or window shopping at toy stores, etc.
We find their hot button and we make it the goal. For instance, dad has demanded A- or higher for the Halloween event. Plus "live the Scout law" and the chores have to be done, + whatever other goal we've agreed upon (i.e., waking up on time each day, or being respectful and kind to everyone, etc.)
I've also off and on gone on a "point system" (works better with the 11-yo, not so much the 14-yo)... e.g., 3 points for all work done, 3 points for all chores done, 4 points for good attitude/behavior all day. 10 points = a set amount on the computer.
But I have to say, nothing is set in stone around here yet. We're still navigating the waters of teen parenting, so while the above is working so far, we'll adjust/change if we need to. We've had one relative success so far (not completely done as she's 19, but so far so good), but teen boys are a whole 'nother story, we're finding!  
 and prayers for you! Hope this helps!
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stef
mom to five
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Erin
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| Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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Jackie
In my experience this is very normal for teen boys of this age, they simply don't care. This to will pass.(Shall I survive?)
How to find the middle ground? Where you are relaxing within your self, knowing it will change with maturity, but still getting him to put in some effort.
mooreboyz wrote:
| He had 5 weeks to put together an insect collection for his first science unit of the year. He was to have 50 different insects. He found 12. I gave him an extra week and he didn't get any more. |
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I have become realistically aware this is too long a time period, too far away for a 13yr old boy. At the most I give my boys a week deadline, 'gently reminding' them daily that Friday is looming. (No computer Friday of assigned work is not done, gone are my dreams for 'motivation by interest'  ) For a big project like the insects I would break it down for him, 10 insects by the end of the week would be his assignment.
You may be interested in this article, Hope for teenage boys and schoolwork by the authors of Raising Real Men
Probably one of the most common questions we’ve gotten as we speak all over the country is “How in the world do I get my teenage son to do his schoolwork?” As the parents of these guys: we’ve been there! There are days I’ve felt like jerking them (and me, too) bald-headed.
We’ve found that as boys enter the teen years they get very impatient with the endless (to them) preparation. They want to do real things. They want to be men.They want to know what’s the purpose of this stuff.
Really interesting points. I so wish I could access the book here in Australia.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
| I have become realistically aware this is too long a time period, too far away for a 13yr old boy. |
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I agree with Erin about the long deadlines. I think it's okay to say the total project is due in 5 weeks, but then every week he needs a reminder and a "check in" on his work.
When my oldest was going through this stage I had to have him bring every assignment to me as he completed it. It was tedious for both of us, but he needed the accountability. I would then check it off on the copy of his assignment sheet that I carried around on my clipboard. I usually just scanned it quickly, but if I had time I actually checked it for a grade. If all was not complete, then in the afternoon when he usually wanted to play at the computer or something like that, he had to finish the work first.
I will also say that this sort of thing is hard for me. I am bad at holding my kids accountable. My dh is always telling me I'm too much of a softy. But I know it is really what is best for them. Pray for grace!
I'm just coming back to this because I thought of something else. Sometimes, if an assignment was on his sheet for a long period of time (like "bug collection"), it was like he got so used to seeing it there he sort of ignored it. Maybe going through each assignment every morning to make sure he "sees" it and is aware of the requirements for that assignment would help. I have to do this with my dd for Latin. She tells me she "studies" but then it's very apparent that she hasn't. So I have to go over with her each day what I expect her to do when she comes to the "study Latin" assignment.
It is tedious, but taking 15 min in the morning to go over assignments and probably a total of 30 min each day to check things as they are completed will (hopefully) save the anguish later when there is so much work to do because they are so far behind.
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Becky
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mooreboyz
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Thanks for all your support and advice. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one experiencing this and that it will pass. I agree that I am going to need to check on everything each day. I already do with day to day stuff as I check their school work from the day before every morning. I am going to need to check his stuff over I think each day after he completes it. And then If it is not finished he will lose his computer time in the evening...he will need to do his work instead. He already is doing quite a lot of work here. I know from reading Montessori that this is so important at this age...to be doing meaningful work. And while my boys endlessly complain about doing chores I know that it is when they are engaged in them that they are the most happy. I also agree that with the unit projects that he has that I will need to set goals for each week rather than monthly. He and his 11 year old brother had several independent science projects to work on and even though I told them not to wait until the last minute they did and were working on them at 6 pm last night (Friday). I am trying to give them more independent work as they are getting older, but I see they still will need me to push them along if I want them to do work that isn't a rushed mess.
I will need to check out the website you posted, Erin. It looks interesting. There was a book I read a couple years ago that I should read again. I think it was called Boys Adrift.
Thanks again! I feel a little more hopeful today.
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Jackie
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JennyMaine
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I was thinking about these types of issues recently in regard to my son, who just turned 14. And what came to mind was the catch phrase from an Emilie Barnes book I read years ago on homemaking. . ."It's not what you expect, it's what you inspect."
I do think it is totally normal for you to have to sit down with him at the end of each school day or at intervals throughout the day to correct his work and make sure it is complete. I know I have to do this still with both my teens. And I'm ok with it. I just look at it as part of my job as a homeschooling mom. A daily assignment sheet has done wonders, and I include chores and baby steps for long term projects on the daily sheet. They need that level of help (and, frankly, so do I. Or else I'd end up being the one saying to herself, "Ugh! The fall leaf collection for Biology - I forgot to keep tabs on that."
Complete, 100% independence in their work is not my goal for my kids. Focus and sustained effort each day is my goal. But, frankly, even as a an employee I perform better when I know my boss will be checking on me, than when I'm left totally to myself.
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--JennyMaine, Mom to Catherine (17) and Sam (15) "The countenance is a reflection of the soul. You should always have a calm and serene countenance." -- Therese of Lisieux
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Erin
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JennyMaine wrote:
I do think it is totally normal for you to have to sit down with him at the end of each school day or at intervals throughout the day to correct his work and make sure it is complete. I know I have to do this still with both my teens. And I'm ok with it. I just look at it as part of my job as a homeschooling mom.
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I was actually thinking last week that my sons' inability to do one of his subjects on his own was a blessing. He struggled all year to do his Faith, he just can't read and process all on his own. I sat with him and read, he narrated, and then we discussed. Oh what a beautiful time we had, he really opened up his soul, asked the most amazing questions, some random Faith questions, some related to the lesson. So I'm really okay with it 
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Angie Mc
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Jackie, I do know this pain . You are a great mom to care sooooooooo much and to be willing to work hard for your family, especially your young man. I know the angst of being tempted to "do more" because my child is "doing less." Ugh, the panic of it all! Why can't we just*do*this?...whatever the "this" is at the moment  . I'm responding without reading all the wonderful replies, so excuse any repeating.
1. I turn my sons over to my dh for *all* discipline issues starting at ~12. If I can't get their cooperation with a "look" or a gentle reminder, or "that's a buck," the issue goes to dad. My dh is willing and able.
2. If a dad is able but unwilling to take on discipline of his young men, that is a marital challenge that needs to be addressed. Many men of recent generations haven't had the exmample of fatherly discipline and may need time to figure out how they will proceed. Wives should be very careful to not take on this important work so that both father and son can learn and grow strong together.
3. If/when dad is unavailable, have a plan that continues his directives without him. It may be as simple as "You will wait in your room until Dad calls" or "You will lose all technology until Dad returns from his month deployment."
4. Commit to "not being dad." Commit to teaching, mothering, serving, nursing, cleaning, feeding, cheering onto victory:).
5. Have other men involved in guiding young men to manhood. In our case, we have baseball coaches:)
6. Work cooperatively with son/student to determine expectations for academics. Have matter-of-fact basics that need to be done daily (Mom checks) and more fluid aspects of gaining knowledge done weekly (Dad checks.)
7. Make sure that they are well fed and rested.
8. Make sure that they are learning about their faith and growing in positive character formation in natural, engaging, and organized ways.
9. Make sure that they have one activity/commitment that is free and can't be "taken away" because of poor discipline. In our case, it's the commitment to their baseball teams.
10. Make sure that they are having fun! And some of that fun *must* be with Mom:). I need to watch them play ball...and sit next to them on the couch to watch the movie that they think is fabulous...and sing silly pop songs with them because is makes us all laugh.
I strongly believe that to gain good effort and respect from our sons, we need to treat them like men. They need to see us as womanly support, not overbearing women - or worse. We need to become less of the driving force in their days so that they can become the driving force of their lives. I am a strong-willed extroverted mom, so I'm not calling for me to become timid and weak. On the contrary! I'm embarrassed to say that it takes a ton of discipline on my part to back away, let my boys fail, let dad call the shots, and let my precious plans and dreams for them fall to the wayside. It can be very hard work for me to not whine, complain, manipulate, play the victim, or bully my boys "to get stuff done". It can be very hard for me to take responsiblity for myself, tell the truth, bravely say what is important to me, be reasonable, ask for help. I'm getting better, praise God, yet fail regularly...keeps me humble  .
Praying for you, Jackie, and for all of us in the thick of raising teens, especially young men. Please pray for me .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Erin
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Angie Mc wrote:
1. I turn my sons over to my dh for *all* discipline issues starting at ~12. If I can't get their cooperation with a "look" or a gentle reminder, or "that's a buck," the issue goes to dad. My dh is willing and able. |
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Oh Angie has so many words of wisdom. Everything she says is 
This one I found so useful, during the day I encourage my boys to ring Dad if they are trying to 'get out' of during some assigned work, "If Dad says yes you don't have to do it" he rarely does, and mostly they don't bother ringing 
AngieMc wrote:
| 6. Work cooperatively with son/student to determine expectations for academics. Have matter-of-fact basics that need to be done daily (Mom checks) and more fluid aspects of gaining knowledge done weekly (Dad checks.) |
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Dad also 'signs off' on their weekly work before computer time, I'm a softy and cave in. It has only taken a few nights where a child is working at the table late on a Friday night to finish his work because he frittered his time, listening to his siblings on the computer before he has got the message.
AngieMc wrote:
I strongly believe that to gain good effort and respect from our sons, we need to treat them like men. They need to see us as womanly support, not overbearing women - or worse. We need to become less of the driving force in their days so that they can become the driving force of their lives. |
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Ohh letting go! So, so important and so so hard at first. I'm in the midst of growing in respecting and trusting my teens, learning lots about myself but growing in my relationship with my teens.
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Erin
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mamalove
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sounds like blackout time to me, as well as daily check in with mom. We have lesson plans that our 13 yo ds fills in every day so mama can keep track of what he is doing.
mama!
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vmalott
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Angie Mc wrote:
5. Have other men involved in guiding young men to manhood. In our case, we have baseball coaches:)
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Amen to that, Angie! We've had the good fortune to get our 14yo on a team with coaches who have been great male role models. DS is even considering asking his head coach to be his Confirmation sponsor! 
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Valerie
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mariB
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Had my 11 year decide she didn't want to do her school work yesterday. We had a play date that day with friends and I called up the mom and cancelled. I really hated to do this.
I find that my 11 year old balks when something is difficult for her to do. When it comes easy she does great. When school gets a little more challenging I've found that some of our kids who were so diligent at getting things done have a time of testing me.
I explained to my daughter yesterday that going that extra mile in life is so much better than doing the bare minimum.
This is no easy task homeschooling! I told our daughter that more than academics being diligent, kind, respectful, and being obedient are most important to me.
When there is a change in our kids with their attitudes in school it usually hits around the teenage years..like around 13. My daughter is 11 so it must be hitting early. The thing is she is not in habit of doing this. I think hormones, being tired and other outside issues like her brothers and dad being gone might be taken into consideration.
Just make sure that you look around at the outside to see if there are any changes in his life or atmosphere around him that is causing this. I always like to be fair when I am assessing behavior. Is there a new baby, does he think you aren't really looking at what he completing, a death in the family, etc.
Really not trying to give advice. It's more like I can totally empathize with you.
Praying for all homeschooling families!
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marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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mooreboyz
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Thanks again for all of your support. The first time through these stages is always the toughest because it is new to you. When the others hit those ages I'll remember and say to myself and dh "oh yeh, I remember when ...was 6 and cried about everything". I think my oldest is trying out being a man where he can and seeing what his boundaries are. My dh and I have always felt that kids need boundaries to really feel cared about by their parents and so maybe this is his way of saying he wants more of my attention. Having such a large family we tend to take him for granted being the oldest that he will just take care of things for himself. And I know dh makes him and I feel bad when he sees him being "mothered". He wants him to start being a "man". I think my son is in need of some mom attention now though.
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Jackie
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: lack of effort/respect
