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Bella
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| Posted: June 19 2008 at 11:57pm | IP Logged
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"The worse homeschooling day, is better than the average day a child spends at a school."
My sister has said this to me before. I think she may have heard it at a conference, or maybe from a sage hs mom. Not sure actually...
Anyway, do you agree with this? Why? Do you think it would be because of the dumbing down of a lot of classrooms, endless twaddle, or, more due to the negative social influences?
Continuing to pick your brain with my annoying questions!
 
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folklaur
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Welllll......it is a nice thought.....but I don't know if it is totally true. Sorry.
I have lived through the "teenage years" with a daughter. There were definitely days where she learned more at her class or two that she attended at the public high school, then the yelling, arguing, and general discord that she caused, or contributed to, at home.
But - OVERALL - in the longterm, in the whole picture view, I think hs-ing is better, and I am not sorry we stuck it out - even through those bad days - and I plan to "stick it out" with the others too.
But. There are bad days sometimes; sometimes really bad....but many, many more good ones...
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Mackfam
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Hmmmm....well, I suppose I see it both ways. Completely honest answer...there will be days! Laura's right!
I think the thing I find redemptive (if I can use that word here) about the bad days is that they can be used as a catalyst for necessary change - whether that's in my attitude, a shift in schoolwork, a shift in priorities, etc. In that way, I think bad days can be used by God to help my entire family grow in holiness. So, they can work for the ultimate good. But, and this is a big BUT, my interior attitude has to be oriented to God's will and open to hearing His Voice and receiving His pruning to be able to shift gears and re-focus. If it isn't, I'm wallowing in self pity and running in circles fretting about a string of bad days with no end in sight, no way to get out and running to call the big yellow school bus. And, I have been there. 
Just my take on it. 
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K&Rs Mom
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I agree with that statement for my family, mostly because of the wasted time. Our homeschool "day" is short enough that no matter how badly it goes, the kids have time to do better things the rest of the day, even if that's just a lot of reading. An average outschool day wastes probably 4 of their 6 hours, and the kids cannot get that back. OTOH, some people are just not meant to homeschool, so for those kids the statement wouldn't be true. Just my opinion....
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Mary Chris
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I think YES!
Mine may be behind in some areas, but I know that they will leave home with all the knowlegde they need. We definitely have bad days.....ok....maybe bad weeks or months but I would rather my kids be home than in public school.
My dd13 is a good girl but she is a teen and has plenty of attitude, I think it would be even worse if she was at school. Especially when I am with my friends in public schools and I hear how their children are treated by others. I know my kids face some of that now, but no where near the extreme it could be.
Now for the most part my kids get along with each other, and play together pretty well.
I heard one teacher comment today how she was so happy to be teaching 2nd grade this year because she would not have to stop teaching in April to review for the SOL's.
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Bella
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Mackfam wrote:
Hmmmm....well, I suppose I see it both ways. Completely honest answer...there will be days! Laura's right!
I think the thing I find redemptive (if I can use that word here) about the bad days is that they can be used as a catalyst for necessary change - whether that's in my attitude, a shift in schoolwork, a shift in priorities, etc. In that way, I think bad days can be used by God to help my entire family grow in holiness. So, they can work for the ultimate good. But, and this is a big BUT, my interior attitude has to be oriented to God's will and open to hearing His Voice and receiving His pruning to be able to shift gears and re-focus. If it isn't, I'm wallowing in self pity and running in circles fretting about a string of bad days with no end in sight, no way to get out and running to call the big yellow school bus. And, I have been there.
Just my take on it. |
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I absolutely agree! I think as Christians-especially Catholics, we are trying to model and teach a Christ-like way to live,and to also value suffering. This is where I get stuck.  There is no doubt, that I would rather our DC get to Heaven then Harvard(popular saying,right?). However, if this is putting our DC's academics at risk, I start to question whether or not this is appropriate. There are many ways for my DC to practice a Christ-like life, but I am questioning if the continual drudging through the bad days/weeks/months, is really the best way. That the sacrifice may be too big-for our DC at least.
Laura, I really appreciate your candid experience-thankyou for sharing!
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:47pm | IP Logged
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Bella wrote:
| Do you think it would be because of the dumbing down of a lot of classrooms, endless twaddle, or, more due to the negative social influences? |
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I have been thinking about this since I responded last night. I am not sure why, but it is really stuck in my head. But as I think about it, a few other thoughts are coming to mind. All just my opinions, so feel free to disregard .
I hear about classrooms being dumbed down. I hear about twaddle. And I am sure it exists. But, and this is a totally hard to admit but an honest statement - although I mean everything I said about being glad we kept dd18 home, in all honesty, the BEST performances she gave, the BEST "book learning" experiences she had were when other people taught her. I am not talking about "life learning" - I mean purely academic. She learns better when it is NOT me teaching her. Whether it is the approval or validation she gets from an "unbiased" source telling her she is succeeding, I am not sure.
We have been lucky in that the school experiences she has had have NOT been twaddle, have not been wasted time. When she took Chemistry at the local high school, she learned Chemistry. Yes, there were people in class who goofed off and didn't learn - but that was their choice. The teacher taught the subject well and she learned a ton. She loves Chem now. And this was at a "regular public school." She learned more in that Chem class at the public high school than I think she did in the Geology class that she took at the community college.
When she first started high school, we sent her to a charter school. It was a excellent experience, and the only reason we stopped was because of her health problems. The classes were small, the teachers were excellent, there was no twaddle, no wasted time. The kids worked hard there. Although I am not sorry for a second that we homeschooled, had she NOT had the health problems, she probably would have stayed there, and done excellently. BUT - this school - and a few other charters in AZ - was an exception, and I know it from talking to other parents. There is NOTHING like it where we live now. But - there are GOOD schools out there, just as there are horrid ones. I happen to think the good ones are the exception, as are the horrid ones. I think most are just mediocre. And I want more than mediocre for my children, kwim?
I think a lot of also depends on where you live. Inner city schools are of course going to be different from rural schools. All these factors come into play, which is another reason why I think that OP statement isn't a good one. What, exactly is a "bad" day homeschooling? When oldest dd and I are in a heated argument, and it spills over so I can not even effectively teach the younger ones, who also get to witness Mom losing it and older dd being disrepetful, with tears, crying, and slamming doors, and no 'school' gets done at all, never mind housework or anything else? Yeah, those days were pretty bad. (But they can happen whether they homeschool OR go to schoo.) Or is the idea of a bad day homeschooling just someone struggling in their Math lesson? What is an Average Public School day? (In first grade, in 10th grade?)
I think there is a tendency to sometimes, (only sometimes) maybe....tear down other schooling methods in order to validate homeschooling. By saying things like "all the twaddle", or "all the wasted time." I mean.... I know we waste time here a lot too. I guess it is okay because *I* am deciding to waste the time, and not someone else deciding for me.
I mean, there are even an awful lot of homeschoolers who tear down other methods of homeschooling in order to feel that their way is the BEST way, the only good option, the RIGHT choice. I think it is just something people do, not always "on purpose" or "in a mean way." But, for instance, if I think radical unschooling is the best way kids learn (not just AN option - but the BEST option,) there would be a tendency to think that someone doing a boxed curriculum like Seton is wasting time. It isn't a fair way to think, but I think people do it all the time.
For us, really, it is the negative social influence more than anything. And even that is not a given anymore. I have seen more and more often people whose children have been expelled from school and now they are "homeschooling." They join the support groups but have a totally different mindset, and it is obvious.
It might also have to do with ages. I think my dd had a blast at her Pre-K class at our parish. It was WAY better than what I was able to give her at home at the time. My ds THRIVED in our parish Kindergarten. But 1st grade was a different experience entirely - but NOT because of his teacher - his teacher was lovely, her whole classroom was covered in picture books, and read alouds that were her own personal library. Literally hundereds and hundreds of books. But, some of the otehr kids - in 1st grade! - were starting to get "mean."
Bella wrote:
"The worse homeschooling day, is better than the average day a child spends at a school."
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Just looking at a day-by-day comparison, I don't think it is really a valid statement in most situations. But - OVERALL - looking at "all the days" in a homeschooling career vs all the days spent in public school, away from family, parents, etc - then I can agree with it. Not that I don't think homeshcooling is usually a better choice, I DO. But the actual statement - "the WORST day homeschooling" compared to the "AVERAGE day" of a child in school? It is really just too vague, and when you really, really examine what it is saying....I'm not sure how to properly word this...it just doesn't sound accurate. I think I get what the "meaning" of the message, but, the more I think about the actual statement, the less I agree with it.
anyway
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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Bella wrote:
Laura, I really appreciate your candid experience-thankyou for sharing!
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I was cross posting with you - you may not feel the same after you get through my second diatribe  .
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Bella
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Mary Chris wrote:
I think YES!
Mine may be behind in some areas, but I know that they will leave home with all the knowlegde they need. We definitely have bad days.....ok....maybe bad weeks or months but I would rather my kids be home than in public school.
My dd13 is a good girl but she is a teen and has plenty of attitude, I think it would be even worse if she was at school. Especially when I am with my friends in public schools and I hear how their children are treated by others. I know my kids face some of that now, but no where near the extreme it could be.
Now for the most part my kids get along with each other, and play together pretty well.
I heard one teacher comment today how she was so happy to be teaching 2nd grade this year because she would not have to stop teaching in April to review for the SOL's. |
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This is a good point! I think that if families are committed to hsing for the long haul(for lack of better way of saying it ), having a DC be a bit behind in some areas wouldn't be troublesome. There is the constant assurance, of,"There is always next year to get what we missed this year."
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SimplyMom
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Well, if I run the "worse" out to the extreme I don't agree with it. I think it is possible to have homeschool days that are worse than your average public school classroom day.
But I think that a bad homeschool day is probably equal to a decent public school day and an average homeschool day is miles and miles ahead of a bad school day.
I would suggest that comparing a bad homeschool day to a bad school day is even more instructive. In a bad school day not only are you having a bad day, but the people around you might be the very ones making your time there unbearable. In homeschool no matter how bad it gets you are with people who love you.
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Bella
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Well, Laura, I was asking for opinions-and I am getting them. Truthbetold, I actually agree with what you just wrote-aside from the personal notes, I mean-everything!
While I am trying to discern our upcoming school year, I keep thinking about how many times my dear sis said this to me. At first, when my DD was younger, I agreed! Now, as she 's gotten older, and there have been continued health problems for me, and a total lack of social life for both of us, I am seriously questioning this. I feel like I am hsing DD to just keep trying to make my ideals work out-yk?
But, DH brings me to the fact that there is NO ideal.But gosh darn it! I really want the ideal! 
But really, I appreciate your post so much-there is so much truth in it.  I don't care for umbrella statements-it just takes me awhile to pick it apart, and have enough confidence to say, no,not really!
Sorry for the ramble...
ETA-a nicer way to express myself, and delete some info...which is why Laura's post isn't making sense to anybody but me!
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folklaur
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Might she do better with a program like the virtual schools? She would have a teacher she was accountable to. Or maybe a program like Seton would be good for her? You could "think less" about it, and she will have the outside authority to be accountable to, plus get grades, report cards, etc?
I know this doesn't help the social aspect. Since my pregnancy 6 years ago, my health has been horrible...
ETA: to actually delete a lot of stuff since Bella PM'd me and editied and now it is not necessary to the convo...
...
sigh
I'll pray for you - will you do the same for me?
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Bella
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| Posted: June 20 2008 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
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Laura-YOU ARE NOT PATHETIC!!!(((((HUGS)))))!!!!!! I am PMIng you....
We are considering that for DD.
I am praying about the social aspect-i keep hoping and praying, that the issue will just go away. HA!
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allegiance_mom
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Bella wrote:
| "The worse homeschooling day, is better than the average day a child spends at a school." |
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Absolute agree.
In the last week, in our LOCAL area, the following things have happened in schools:
* A female teacher removed from the classroom for an "inappropriate" relationship with a 14 year old boy. The boy then runs away from school and the two are missing overnight.
* A middle school boy is beat up after school. It is videotaped and put on YouTube by one of the bystanders. It was removed by YouTube after the boy's mother and police became involved.
* A 4 year old boy arrives at Head Start with marijuana hidden in the toe of one shoe. Parents arrested!
* An elementary teacher is arrested on her 4th DWI. She was earlier removed from the classroom for being drunk in school.
* Every afternoon, the middle school students walk down our street using the most vulgar language, and at the top of their lungs. They do not care if adults and /or police are in the vicinity.
The Catholic church teaches that it is sinful for parents to knowingly expose their children to moral evil. That is why I could never put my children in a school.
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sarahb
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I absolutely do not agree.
I had wonderful school experiences as a kid and have no regrets about my time spent in public school.
I dont intend to school my kids at home NO MATTER WHAT! I am trying to do the best I can currently and it is going ok but if I thought a school had something to offer that I couldnt give I would certainly look hard at it as an option.
I love the homeschooling lifestyle, but I dont believe school is always a bad choice. Each child has unique needs. Some may be better met at school.
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Bella
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| Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:29am | IP Logged
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allegiance_mom wrote:
The Catholic church teaches that it is sinful for parents to knowingly expose their children to moral evil. That is why I could never put my children in a school. |
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You see, I was not aware of this at all. I would hope that any Christian wouldn't *purposely* expose their DC to moral evils.
Having said that, are you saying that *all* schools expose our DC to moral evils? Or are you referring to your local school system-which is obviously horrible! (Those poor DC!!!  )
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Bella
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| Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged
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SimplyMom wrote:
Well, if I run the "worse" out to the extreme I don't agree with it. I think it is possible to have homeschool days that are worse than your average public school classroom day.
But I think that a bad homeschool day is probably equal to a decent public school day and an average homeschool day is miles and miles ahead of a bad school day.
I would suggest that comparing a bad homeschool day to a bad school day is even more instructive. In a bad school day not only are you having a bad day, but the people around you might be the very ones making your time there unbearable. In homeschool no matter how bad it gets you are with people who love you. |
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Darcee, I think this is more a blanket statement that I could probably agree on. Your last two sentences are soo true!!
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Bella
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Allegiance_Mom,
I just wanted to add, that I am not challenging you on your beliefs, just asking for clarity. I, in no way at all, want to put you on the spot. We all have a right to our opinions!
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Bella
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Sparrow
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I would imagine the truthfulness of the statement would have a lot to do with your family dynamics, dc, and the local school system. :)
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saigemom
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In my house, this is very true. We have the ability to work through the rough stuff.
I don't have to argue with a teacher about bullying (I just separate my the offender..I mean sibling )
I can let them move ahead if they're ready instead of being frustrated. I can give extra help if they're behind, so they don't get lost and miss a stepping stone.
I know that our faith is being taught as a lifestyle not a subject or as something that's not allowed to be mentioned.
Our worst days usually result in the biggest breakthroughs. Ex. I am usually brought to my knees in prayer, which enhances my relationship with God. My dc and I usually end up with some pretty intense heart to hearts on these days.
My fourth grader will still hug me in public and around his friends
My dc could care less about brand names, most tv shows that are now popular, and they eat really healthy.
My husband has a 4day work week, so they get that whole extra day to spend with daddy and w/ us as a whole family.
Whew...I guess I had a lot to say
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: The worse HS day is better than a day in.
