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Kristin
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 10:39pm | IP Logged
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I'm a real newbie to Charlotte Mason but feel led to find out more about this approach. There are many aspects that I'm drawn to but I know that it will have to be a slow process for me.
Right now I'm trying to figure out what to use as a base for our home learning next year. Every time I think I have more-or-less made a decision, something new comes onto the horizon.  Here's the key: I feel desperate for something that is going to spell out for me what to do day by day, something that will lift from me the onus of planning, even if it is only deciding which book(s) to read each week! I'm not in a place of feeling comfortable with "unschooling", although I do really appreciate what that approach is all about. Whatever I chose I will most certainly tweak, adding and subtracting to fit our needs. That much I can handle and will enjoy immensely! 
My main question is whether (and how) Sonlight Pre-K can be used within the framework of CM's recommended style of learning. I have also looked at Ambleside and Mater Amabilis and am very drawn to them. What they lack is the structure I feel I need for the upcoming year. Does it make any sense to think that I would use Sonlight Pre-K this year and move more in the MA / Ambleside direction for the following year if so inclined?
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Bunch 'o Honey to my Honey Bunch and Mama to five - Noah 10y  , Rose 8y  , Dominic 2.5 y  , Oliver 16m 
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Genevieve
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 7:32am | IP Logged
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Kristin,
I draw heavily from CM and if you followed CM and even Montessori  , nothing is required to a child. In fact, both gives a lot of freedom to a child as to what they want to do day by day. I recently finished reading CM's Volume One. She writes much about Nature Study and Habit training for your son's age group.
What I am currently doing for my children is to use Sonlight as a booklist. I request a book everday through the library and pick them up once a week. Whatever is ready to be picked up is our "curriculum" for the week. So I don't plan in terms of books. I do believe children should make their own associations for themselves. However, when a child shows interests in a particular topic I would find a suitable follow-up book.
I have divided up a folder containing booklists into various categories to ensure a broad curriculum. Fiction includes Sonlight, MA, AO etc. Non-fiction includes Let's read and find out, MIchael Olaf suggestions, Foss's nature suggestions. Math readers includes suggestions from Living Math though we are currently just working through the MathStart Readers.
The children are used to being read to early morning before breakfast and middle afternoon after my nap. Ths routine works well for the hot summer months. So during the morning hours we "school" We might go into the Montessori room, make some crafts, garden and play in the backyard or follow whatever inspirations my children have. I find that if I try to follow a CM structure we get bored and restless after a few weeks. You might want to check out Simply Charlotte Mason for more structured. So sometimes I have a more Waldorfy month. Sometimes a more Montessori month. Even unschooling. It invirgorates us to have different focus different times of the year. Always following the child though.
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Genevieve
The Good Within
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Celeste
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 1:25pm | IP Logged
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Kristin,
I've all but ordered Sonlight's cores--they are really calling to me right now! We will be starting our third year of homeschooling in the fall. The first year we did mostly Montessori (elementary 6-9), until I had baby #5 and didn't have as much time to prep and make materials. Last year we did CHC and a smattering of MA; it wasn't a great year. Not bad programs, but they didn't work for us.
So for next year I'm thinking of Sonlight's core 3+4 for dd's 10 and 8, and core c for dd 6 who just finished Montessori 3-6 at a local school. That'll cover history and reading and language arts. For math I'll use Montessori; science for dd 10 will be Real Science 4 Kids; Sonlight or Montessori for the other two. I'm considering Shurley for grammar. We already use Rosetta Stone for Spanish, and Latina Christiana for Latin. Violin lessons for music; dressage for dd 10 and ballet for dd 8; 4-H. Art? Perhaps one of Sonlight's recommendations, or classes with a local teacher.
Thinking out loud here--have I missed anything? I'm hoping that Sonlight will enable me to use living books without my having to work as hard at prep. Too often my "great ideas" never come to fruition because I run out of time or resources.
So, ask me in a year how it went!
Celeste
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Jordan
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Kristin,
Here is a thread where Sonlight is discussed for Pre-K and in general. I hope this helps. 
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Jordan
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 6:17am | IP Logged
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SL's preK is very gentle. If you want a schedule, this is a good one. I would skip on Developing the Early Learner workbooks, and add in the Catholic Treasure Box books. You might want to replace the Family Time Bible with something Catholic. New Toes for Tia and that other book...something about an idol, are skipped by most Catholic families, too. Fwiw, SL PK is better done with an older 4 yr old than a young one.
CHC sells a pk/k manual that might work well, if you want something Catholic, and then you could add in the books that appeal to you in SL pk.
I'll plug FIAR here, too. My biggest beef with SL PK is the lack of picture books. It relies heavily on compilation books and its just not the same thing to see a 2 x 2 inch remnant of the original full color illustration. No daily schedule, though.
Core 3+4 is a *heavy* reading schedule, and the Landmark book does not appeal to a lot of elementary school students. The Story of the USA workbooks are snoring boring and very NOT CM.
Celeste, most people who are new to SL get entirely overwhelmed trying to do 2 cores. If you want to use SL, maybe consider alt 2? The Hillyer's book is easy to read, lends itself well to narrations and many of the read alouds will appeal to younger students too. Its *perfect* for both 8 and 10 yr olds (not "under" a 10 yr old at all) and you can get readers for all your kids at their own levels. The advanced reader set is definitely at a 4th-5th grade level...harder than the core 3 regular readers by far.
.02 from a longtime SL modifier. :-)
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Celeste
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Books--this is a debate I've been having with myself! Dd 10 is VERY sensitive about taking courses below her grade level, and balked at the 3+4 designation, even though I explained that it didn't stand for grades. She and dd 8 read a few grades above their levels, and fairly quickly (if they're interested enough, they can tear through a chapter book in less than a day--not an uncommon thing on this board!). Dd 10 also is sensitive to what she's "supposed" to be learning in certain grades, and around here grade 5 is US history.
As for dd 6, Core C seemed to jive with some of the Montessori history work I would be doing with her, particularly the Fundamental Needs of Man horizontally and vertically.
Anyway, that's another peek into my mental gymnastics--I can still be talked out of my plan! I've benefitted so much from what you and others have shared on past threads. I'm a modifier, too, but I don't want to take on something that is impossible to modify.
Celeste
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Kristin
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 12:16am | IP Logged
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Thank you, everyone, for helping me sort this out!
Genevieve, as always you are an inspiration to me. Thank you for sharing what learning looks like in your home. By you I have been encouraged to make next year a very relaxed one with lots of child-led learning! 
Celeste, it meant a lot to me to know that you are in a similar place. Sonlight really does "call out" to me, too. I will look forward to hearing what you decide and how things turn out for you this year!
Jordan, thanks for the link to the SL/Pre-K thread. We "newbies" have so many similar questions, don't we?!
Books, your comment about SL Pre-K/K being better for an older four than a younger four cinches my decision to wait until next year and see reconsider SL again.
And I want to say thanks again to Mary, a special friend who --- like an angel --- seems to always nudge us in the right direction!
The Holy Spirit has guided the direction for the upcoming learning year at our house and I'm very at peace with it! I have realized that we have many more years for structure ahead of us, God willing, so what's the rush? For this year we will be doing a lot of picture books from a number of different book lists, including BFIAR and FIAR, and Catholic Mosaic. For the structure I'm craving, I'm going to give the planner at Simply Charlotte Mason a try (thanks, Genevieve, for sending me their way). If it doesn't work out, I may be back to ask for tips on how everyone manages working through book lists.
Oh, and we will continue on with the Montessori that we have already been doing adding Math, Language and Geography to the mix! I have decided to stick with Montessori approach for reading and writing, for the time being, keeping Reading Reflex, 100EZ, LSFLF(?) and Reading Made Easy as back-ups if necessary.
As for myself, this year I'm going to be reading up on CM and will hopefully finally have the chance to read For Real Learning, as well!
Having all of these decisions made feels so good. HOORAY!!!
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Bunch 'o Honey to my Honey Bunch and Mama to five - Noah 10y , Rose 8y , Dominic 2.5 y , Oliver 16m
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 7:11am | IP Logged
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Celeste wrote:
Dd 10 is VERY sensitive about taking courses below her grade level, and balked at the 3+4 designation, even though I explained that it didn't stand for grades. She and dd 8 read a few grades above their levels, and fairly quickly (if they're interested enough, they can tear through a chapter book in less than a day--not an uncommon thing on this board!). Dd 10 also is sensitive to what she's "supposed" to be learning in certain grades, and around here grade 5 is US history.
As for dd 6, Core C seemed to jive with some of the Montessori history work I would be doing with her, particularly the Fundamental Needs of Man horizontally and vertically.
Anyway, that's another peek into my mental gymnastics--I can still be talked out of my plan! I've benefitted so much from what you and others have shared on past threads. I'm a modifier, too, but I don't want to take on something that is impossible to modify.
Celeste |
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I never tell my kids what the designations are on anything.  One of the great things about homeschooling and CM is that many people can learn from one good book and books don't have designations on them. SL is primarily just books. If it makes your oldest feel better, you can tell her that the Hillyer's book is also used in alt 6, which is best used with 6th and 8th graders.
Since this is your first time using SL, I would really encourage you to stick with one core, even if you decide to cover American History instead.
Other alternatives?
Core 3 is much more modifiable for the younger set and many of the books would still interest a 6 yr old. Because the pace of text reading is much slower, your 8 yr old will get a lot more out of it than with 3+4. The first time I did it with my oldest, my 5/6ish K'er enjoyed several of the read alouds, although some were still over her head. There are many wonderful and easy to understand American history books that could be added in for the benefit of your youngest (although honestly, I don't do much history with kids this age). There is an advanced set of readers with core 3 for your oldest. She will find some of the books early on below her reading level although interesting, and the later readers very interesting for the 5th-7th grade range. Both of my children who have been through SL's elem. American history finished readers early and I just added in some of the read alouds I didn't have time to get to.
If you are worried about running out of time if you spend two years with Am. history (if you stay with SL), then after 3 and 4 separately, your kids would be the *perfect* age to do a combined core 1+2 and alt. 6. This is the best combination for doing 2 cores since the main text is the same.
SL's schedules are intense and leave very little room for life in general. I always recommend picking up the 5 day for the extra readers but only following the 4 day schedule.
The one great thing about the Landmark book is that it is really not very biased. The story of Catholic prejudice in America is told quite well, in more than one time period. It only needs the addition of saints from the Americas. These are easier to fit in with a 4 day schedule.
Feel free to pm me if you want.
Hope this helps!
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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LaMere Academy
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| Posted: June 30 2007 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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remember that Core 4 doesn't mean 4th grade, they can can be used within an age range.
My 13 and 12 yr olds (will be that age) will be using Core 5. I know they will get a lot out of it.
I think SL can be using in a CM way, you may have to tweak it a little to fit your homeschool. The books are great and it's nice to have that schedule, but you don't have to stick with it.
Good luck!
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~Becky
Mom to:
Zarek 12 and Alexis 11~using MFW 1850-Modern
Caitlyn 8 and Brett 7~Using FIAR
LaMere Academy
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Bella
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 7:35am | IP Logged
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Hi Ladies!
Books, and the rest of ya'll...do you mind if I step in with some info and questions?
First of all....the day this thread started was either the day or the day after I recieved my first Sonlight catalog. Not a big surprise then that I was all*ears* to this thread!
I made a call to Sonlight. This is what I told the rep....that we've been HSing since K,and my dd will be 11(5th grade) this November. She is a strong reader(to me, that means she reads a few grades ahead,reads fast,and comprehends), but has little interest in historical books(she prefers mysteries-Trixie Belden and Nancy Drew). 
The rep said she would recommend the 3+4 Core spread out over two years. She said that that way my dd would be getting the best of the U.S. History, without the excessive reading of a topic she cares so little for.
Now Books, you replied to Celeste saying that you thought 3+4 is a very heavy reading schedule.After thoroughly reviewing the catalog,I see that in the Core 3, there are 44 books to be read, and in the 3+4 Core there are 43 books.Is the heaviness due to the books themselves(length,depth...) or the number of books? Is it because you are figuring in the rest of the missing picture(siblings,life...)?
One mistake I feel I've made HSing dd, was to read books to her, and have *her* read books that she could easily read-just too soon. For ex: I read _Little House In The Big Woods_ to her in first grade, and she then went on to read the rest of the series by herself by the end of third grade.A part of me feels that it was too much too soon-that she was too young to really absorb and appreciate the richness of the books. Maybe by doing that, she was somehow turned off by reading history? And this would make me think that perhaps she would be better with Core 3.
FYI- I am blessed with another dc-ds who just turned 6 this month.THis coming school year dd is in 4-H,CCD at our Parish school-and *maybe* a dance class.(We waay overscheduled her this past year, and do not want to make that mistake again.)
What do you think of this? Please forgive me for banging my head into a wall over this.
I am welcome to any and all advice. Thankyou!
Warmly,
Christy
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 10:00am | IP Logged
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***Now Books, you replied to Celeste saying that you thought 3+4 is a very heavy reading schedule.After thoroughly reviewing the catalog,I see that in the Core 3, there are 44 books to be read, and in the 3+4 Core there are 43 books.Is the heaviness due to the books themselves(length,depth...) or the number of books? Is it because you are figuring in the rest of the missing picture(siblings,life...)? ***
Some of the books are heavy for the age SL recommends them (for instance, Carry On Mr. Bowditch, Cheaper by the Dozen and The Witch of Blackbird Pond are often read to children 11-12). Its a 5 day only schedule and the amount of *text* reading is heavy to finish the Landmark book and all 4 Story of the USA books within 36 weeks.
Using this core over 2 yrs with an 11 year old is an entirely different story. The reading load should be just fine in this situation, and I would add in extra readers that she enjoys since the number of readers over 2 years will be low, imho.
Fwiw, I started the Little House series with a 4 yr old with no regrets, although the rest of my children heard them later (because life got in the way). Reading books like these to young children greatly expands their vocabulary and their ability to sit and listen. What I do regret is giving up picture books as early as I did with my first. Not making that mistake with the rest...working harder for a good balance of picture and chapter books.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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julia s.
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 3:02pm | IP Logged
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Books,
I'm curious about your plans for your children for next year. In the past I've been able to catch you when you talked about what you plan to do (you're one of my favorite people to lurk - in the most kindest way possible ). I was wondering if you could share what you are planning on doing with your kids since they are close in age to mine. And congratulations on your baby due not too long from now.
Thanks.
__________________
julia
married to love of her life
with ds12 ds8 ds3 and ds1
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Bella
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 3:13pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Books!
Glad to hear that that plan may be worked and tweaked with the addition of adding in some books that dd will for sure enjoy.So many decisions!
ITA about reading above dc's levels/abilities. My concern is that I've perhaps read books to my dd that was wonderful for her to increase vocabulary,etc., but for content she just wasn't able to grab the richness,morals,etc. And she could reread these books, her personality (at this time! ) is that if she's read it-she's ready to move on to bigger,harder books.
You make a very good point in regard to dismissing/passing up picture books for older dc. I am fortunate enough to have my very wise sister encourage me to always include my dd(still!) in on picture books. Honestly, I think dd has read at least half of ds's "Summer Reading Program" books to him-and I am positive that she enjoyed many and reaped benefits. And now that I think about it, it's wierd that she is okay with picture book reading, but moves on to one chapter book after another-w/o considering rereading one. Hmm.
Anyway, thanks for your reply. I may PM you if I have more questions.
Warmly,
Christy
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 4:43pm | IP Logged
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julia s. wrote:
Books,
I'm curious about your plans for your children for next year. In the past I've been able to catch you when you talked about what you plan to do (you're one of my favorite people to lurk - in the most kindest way possible ). I was wondering if you could share what you are planning on doing with your kids since they are close in age to mine. And congratulations on your baby due not too long from now.
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Thanks!
After spending 2 yrs here, reading constantly, I feel like I've made some strides toward a more CM style than previously. I'm still an abysmal failure at nature and picture study, but it'll come by the time this baby is in school, surely?
I'll pm you later with the basics. Don't want to hijack the thread.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bella
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| Posted: July 31 2007 at 6:51am | IP Logged
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Books,
I am PMing you....
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Cheryl
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| Posted: July 31 2007 at 7:36am | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
After spending 2 yrs here, reading constantly, I feel like I've made some strides toward a more CM style than previously. I'm still an abysmal failure at nature and picture study, but it'll come by the time this baby is in school, surely?
I'll pm you later with the basics. Don't want to hijack the thread.
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Books, I like to hear about what you do too.
__________________
Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: July 31 2007 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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I guess I was referring to how I can work dictation, copywork and narration into other subjects more naturally. I used to feel like they were another column on my school list. This year I pulled my copywork and dictation from readers, read alouds, Catholic Mosaic(she made it so easy by providing copywork for lots of the books!) Intermediate Language Lessons, and even from the first communion notebook.
For the first time, I am covering 2 children, 3 academic levels apart, with the same history and science. I've never been able to figure out how to do that before.
I am still reading more separate read alouds than I would like, but I feel compelled to hit everyone's maturity level regularly (in this case, a 5 yr old preschooler, and 8 yr old second grader and a 10/11yr old 5th grader).
I don't have much in the way of workbooks this year besides Math (MUS), phonics (explode the code) and grammar for my high schooler (Easy Grammar Plus). One child is using a speller from CHC but that's because she *loves* their format and spelling. Otherwise I would have pulled that from the copywork.
No textbooks this year, either. Woohoo! I'm so excited! And one child is keeping a timeline and history notebook. My 2nd and 5th grader (and high schooler, too) are keeping several different notebooks, because the programs we chose made it easy for me.
Its still a lot of work (we started this week...), but I feel really good about what they are doing. Sonlight is modifiable for a CM methodology. But I will say that it requires more than just tweaking...its more like a slash and burn.  But I don't do well writing my own unit studies so this works for me...
I'm excited about it.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Sonlight and CM
