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Cay Gibson
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Cindy Kelly had this thought-provoking post on her blog the other day.
I have her permission to link it and share in part here. I thought it would be good fodder for us to chew on. 
What is real? This has been on my mind for days. Cindy's post came at the right time for me to really face these questions and I was so appreciative to her for admitting that she shares the same struggles.
Cindy's post in part:
"Sometimes I don't know what is real. I mean outside my home. I am beginning to understand what is real here. And to find that I found I had to seperate the 'white from the rice' - as I told a yankee friend of mine who got a giggle out of it.
How to seperate. I had to:
1) Look at my boys for who they are.
2) Understand their world.
3) See their learning.
4) Seperate their goals and needs from mine (as in justifying my homeschool role and imposing things upon them that are really to satisfy me)
5) Stop trying to look good to others.
6) Keep Christ in my life and try to answer to him only. (still working on this and failing a lot)
7) Stop reading many blogs/site/lists out there that made me veer off real-ness.
8) Actively be involved in the boys and their lives and give them what they did need (after seperating out what they did not)
My boys are happy at home. I hear about kids who are not and realize that my reality is not the same as others' realities. So it is hard to talk about what is real, because what is real for me may be different than for others.
But, I still wonder about how to keep it real and connect with others and gain that support and comradery, but not subcumb to the outside 'lists' and 'expectations'. Now, I am all for both of those things when they are needed. But tell me, how does an average mom like you or me keep that seperate?"
#4 is the one that I need to work on the hardest. Our children are so much a part of us (yet so much their own person and separate from us) how do we keep our interests and goals from seeping into their own learning environment? Since we share the same environment, it's impossible. Right?
#7 Which blogs would this be? Everyone's blogs so inspire me to better myself and my home (such as Donna Marie's great post The Singing House that I read today) that I hate to miss out on any nuggets of wisdom and motivation.
Am I so weak and pathetic that I can't motivate myself without help? 
And, finally, Cindy's question: But, I still wonder about how to keep it real and connect with others and gain that support and comradery, but not subcumb to the outside 'lists' and 'expectations'. Now, I am all for both of those things when they are needed. But tell me, how does an average mom like you or me keep that seperate?"
I know. It's a lot to chew on.  THere's so many different tangents we could discuss from this one post. Let's just take it bite by bite.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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MicheleQ
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Cay,
What's been most helpful for me over the years is to view what I "see" (read in e-mails, on blogs, etc.) as just a *snapshot* in the lives of other families. Personally I don't often post about the bad days because I'm generally striving try to keep a positive outlook and attitude. If I focus too much on what isn't working it affects my attitude and then I find myself in complaining mode.
I think a lot of others are the same, at least I assume they are. When I read the inspirational posts I always have it in the back of my mind that like me they are putting their best foot forward and focusing on the good. I know there are bad days (and plenty of just average days) because everyone has them. But I am grateful for the successes that so many people share - because it does inspire me and lift me up.
In many ways it's about perspective and what pre-conceived notions we bring with us. Some of us know one another personally (have been to one another's houses, talked on the phone, etc.) so when we read something it most likely generates a different picture than someone else who hasn't done those things. That's normal but it's also important to keep in mind.
Just my reflections - feel free to disregard it as it may not be helpful at all.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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kjohnson
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My dear friend and I were disussing this just the other day. When we blog or post on message boards we usually are as Michelle said, "putting our best foot forward and focusing on the good." I try to avoid posting about the negative because it runs counter to trying to offer our sufferings up. Sometimes we need to reach out and ask for support (as I did early this week when I realized that I had developed sciatica in this pregnancy), but most of the time our posts are meant to inspire ourselves more than anyone else.
When we focus on what we've done well and what worked, we are encouraged to continue persevering despite all the things that we did poorly and all the things that didn't work that day or week. This is a rough paraphrase, but St. John Climacus said that the difference between the righteous and the unrighteous is that the righteous get back up after they've fallen. I think posting our successes and joys and reading those of others helps us to continually pick ourselves up as we struggle to live out our faith within our families and homeschools.
Everyone has a cross that they bear (sometimes many) and often they are not apparent to others (especially in cyberspace); but no one's life is perfect. Like Cay, I'd really miss out on all of the beautiful thoughts and ideas of all the other Catholic homeschooling moms, who are sojourning along the same path. Their successes and ideas enrich our home so much.
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In Christ,
Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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Willa
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I look for different things at different times.
When I'm feeling insecure I learn to stay closer in my comfort zone -- there are some very wonderful blogs and resources that I have to avoid when I'm feeling like that, because I WILL compare and get discouraged and that is not good for my homeschooling or my mothering.
There are other times when I feel restless and stuck in the mud and it's a sign I need to let in some new input. These explorations have helped my homeschooling.
I like Cindy's term "real" very much. I heard it last year and it has become my reality check  . Cindy describes in an earlier post on her blog how she tried to craft a homeschool according to what she thought was good, and it flopped, because it was something she was placing on her boys and herself from outside. I personally have a tendency to decide I "should" do this and that and then I put a burden of guilt on myself for not doing these "shoulds". It also makes me feel disappointed that my kids aren't acting the way they "should" -- not talking about moral issues just certain applications like how we do household chores -- what works great for one family may not work well at all for us.
Usually when a great idea doesn't work out great it's because it's not "real" -- it's not ours. So I try to listen to that voice telling me what's going to be real for us, in our situation. That's been a very helpful discernment for me.
Writing from Alaska where I'm visiting my parents!
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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lapazfarm
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Wow. There really is alot there to chew on.
I have been pondering similar things myself lately. It is hard sometimes to look at the blogs of others who have lives similar to, yet not exactly like ours and not compare. It takes real conviction to look at the wonderful things others are doing and be able to say "Good for them! But that's just not us."
I do think it becomes easier for me as I gain more and more experience in this whole endeavor. But it's easier only because I HAVE tried to live up to the expectations or ideals of others and failed. Miserably at times. But through this trial and error I now have a better idea of what is, indeed "real" for us.
For instance. The lovely homekeeping notebooks that are being shared here and there. My goodness! These are AMAZING to me. I do sometimes wish I could be the type of person who could not only create, but also USE such a thing. But quite honestly, I know it would be an exercise in futility for me. I know me and my homekeeping style and the notebook would not fit. I can confidently look at thaem and say "Good for them! But that's just not us."
Fridgeschooling. Great idea. Not working for us so we dropped it. As much as I wanted it to work, it just did not mesh with our style. It wasn't real for us.
The trick is to be able to do this in all areas of our lives, and that's not so easy!LOL!
I think though, as others have said, that when we view blogs we do need to keep in mind that we are seeing only a slice, and a small one at that. And that slice, at least in my blog, is significantly slanted towards the positive. It's not that I am trying consciously to "spin" the facts. But it's more that I LIKE to share in our homeschool successes. I am hoping that by sharing them I can somehow inspire others. My failures I tend to keep closer to home, as I am not as comfortable airing them out for all to see. I think others do the same alot of the times. When something goes well we want to shout it from the rooftops so others can share in our joy and hopefully put it to good use somehow. Sharing the failures, though often instructive, just does not come as easily.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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JennGM
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lapazfarm wrote:
| For instance. The lovely homekeeping notebooks that are being shared here and there. My goodness! These are AMAZING to me. I do sometimes wish I could be the type of person who could not only create, but also USE such a thing. But quite honestly, I know it would be an exercise in futility for me. I know me and my homekeeping style and the notebook would not fit. I can confidently look at thaem and say "Good for them! But that's just not us." |
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Great example. It helps to look at the ideas on blogs and go over them to see if they fit. My first reaction reading those journals was panic, because I have nothing! I'm very disorganized. But that's where real life comes in, that you can discuss and bounce things off people who really know you and give perspective (thanks Rachel!).
This reminds me of Elizabeth's post Keep Your Eyes on Your Own Work.
And when I read posts, I also realize sometimes the writer is sharing an idea that they are testing, but it's not necessarily tried and true...it might not work for them later on, either. Writing it down is a way of discussing, of making it clear in their minds...maybe it will work, maybe it won't.
For a beginner h/ser there's a lot out there to chew...and like Willa said, sometimes I can't visit some if I'm feeling overwhelmed and inadequate.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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hylabrook1
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Reading this discussion is very reassuring to me. I came from a background where I was constantly being berated for something because someone else could do that particular thing better than I could. I tell myself in my *rational* mind that I am only one person, and in fact to be some of those various things at the same time would be a contradiction, so obviously it doesn't make sense to even consider it. Still, I struggle with thinking others are *all* better organized, more even-tempered, thinner, etc., whatever might be considered *better* than what I am. I particularly like Michele's comment about only seeing a snapshot of someone when you read a post. There really is no reason to think that what works in someone else's life, their personality, their strengths and weaknesses, etc. is *bottom line* any *better* than your life. Different, yes. But there is a real beauty in that difference because we all need one another. Sounds like that reading in ICorinthians, about how can the hand say to the foot, "I have no need of you." (or something similar to that). It is a *real* joy to have the gift of you on-line ladies who so generously share your gifts with me and each other.
Peace,
Nancy
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MicheleQ
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hylabrook1 wrote:
| Sounds like that reading in ICorinthians, about how can the hand say to the foot, "I have no need of you." (or something similar to that). It is a *real* joy to have the gift of you on-line ladies who so generously share your gifts with me and each other. |
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Yes! 1 Corinthians 12:4-27 (I just read this at RCIA on Weds.). This truly is the perfect picture. One body many gifts. All needed but not all serving the same purpose. SO beautiful!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Cay Gibson
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#7 Blogging
Thank you all for the replies. I look forward to more insight.
I've found a lot peace in the blogging realm. My blogging really does help me to be a better mother...well, more creative, sensitive, understanding.
I also know that Zelie Martin (St. Therese's mother) wrote a vast amount of letters in her day. I look at blogs as our correspondence of today.
Also, I'm reading Jane Austen Selected Letters by Vivien Jones and, low and behold, it says on the backcover:
"Letter-writing was something of an addiction for young women of Jane Austen's time and social position, and Austen's letters have a freedom and familiarity that only intimate writing can convey.
"Wiser than her critics, who were disappointed that her correspondence dwelt on gossip and the minutiae of everyday living, Austen understood the importance of 'Little Matters', of the emotional and material details of individual lives shared with friends and family through the medium of the letter."
So I'm pretty comfortable with the "realism" and practicality of blogging. I think I realize that everyday but sometimes I "think" too much.  My pastor use to say too much thinking is not too good a thing.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Cay Gibson
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#4) Seperate their goals and needs from mine (as in justifying my homeschool role and imposing things upon them that are really to satisfy me)
Can we focus more on question #4 which is the one I was really debating this morning...and more so this afternoon:
"#4 is the one that I need to work on the hardest. Our children are so much a part of us (yet so much their own person and separate from us) how do we keep our interests and goals from seeping into their own learning environment? Since we share the same environment, it's impossible. Right?"
Example: Today I decided to take my children to the Picasso Ceramic Art Exhibit happening nearby. My 13 yr old ds (totally into sports and electronic games) balked. He didn't want to go.
Once again, my desire for beauty and art and classical literature, etc. clashed with what was "real" for one of my sons.
I had to ask myself...what's "real" here? Why am I wanting him to go see Picasso? The answer was easy. I wanted him to "experience" it. It wanted to take Picasso out of the art books we've read and looked at and for him to see that Picasso was a living, breathing person who left his mark on the world of art.
Still, I know he won't be overtly impressed. My dh probably wouldn't be either.
Do I let an opportunity to see the work of famed Picasso pass by my son or do I insist that he get dragged to something that I look upon as "exposure" and an "educational opportunity?
I could have just taken the two girls but it's getting to the point that those two are the only ones still eager for these "real learning" experiences. The older ones are always busy or suspect that mom has an "educational agenda" up her sleeve. Who? Me?
So I had my son call a friend to go with him thinking he'd appreciate making the trip more with a friend. But the friend had a jam-packed weekend beginning today and couldn't go. The other mother and I ended up making plans to go on the art field trip next week because she wants her children to see the exhibit as well.
Things will go well and I'm sure everyone will have a good time. But I know this is not an interest of my son's and so...where and when do I separate the "white from the rice" as Cindy says.
How do I separate his goals and needs from mine? Am I justifying my hs role and interest and imposing it on him to satisfy me instead of the other way around?
Gosh, these questions sound like a first-year hsing mom. But I really do still question these things.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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mumofsix
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Dear Cay,
I think it is just fine to have your own homeschool agenda: you are the mother! If we allowed our children to remain always in their comfort zones they might miss out on a lot of learning and a few surprises along the way ("Oh I really enjoyed that" said in an amazed tone!).
Yes it is also important to try to share their interests, even if at first it leaves you cold. It is a question of balance.
I too agonised a lot over this with my first homeschool pupil, ds 19. I think he sensed my lack of confidence and it unsettled him. Eventually he was very adamant about what he would or would not do, and it damaged him educationally (and a little spritually and character-wise, too).
Now I am very confident about "my" educational agenda. I am the teacher around here! But I also strive to get to know, respect and facilitate my children's own interests, those they develop spontaneously also. Quite a few of these are interests sparked by my "requirements".
It will not kill your son to see the Picasso exhibition. It will not kill you to learn his latest computer game. (Well, probably not.) Give and take!
Jane.
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Leonie
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mumofsix wrote:
If we allowed our children to remain always in their comfort zones they might miss out on a lot of learning and a few surprises along the way ("Oh I really enjoyed that" said in an amazed tone!).
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Jane - I am with you on this one.
Often, my goals and the goals of my dc do not meet. That is okay - but I can still ask them to get out of their comfort zones.
I am a big believer in challenging myself and my dc and my dh - we grow, we try new things. These don't always take but the challenge is not a bad thing.
Now, this also pre-supposes that I listen to my dc and it is about our relationship .
Its not all about the kids and their goals, here. Just like its not all about me - there is my dh to consider, too.
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Elizabeth
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Dear Cay,
I'm jumping in late here so I'm going to try to hit several points. I've given quite a bit of thought to what's "real," as in Real Learning, but also as in "real life." I've found that real learning is actually easier than real life.
Real Learning looks different for each family. And it works only if it strives to strike a balance between the children's expectation and the mother's expectations and the father's expectations. In our house, those three are very different. Once upon a time, that was a source of frustration for me. I wanted a "school" that was a cross between Sally Clarkson and Susan Wise Bauer with some Montessori thrown in (how many ways can you say "impossible" ?). My husband was pretty hands-off but wanted plenty of field trips, both near and far. To him, the biggest benefit to home education was being able to ditch the plan and fly somewhere whenever the opportunity presented itself. (Have I mentioned I am a major homebody who likes her routine?) And my children recently named our "homeschool" The Foss Academy for the Athletically Inclined. Sports come first. Period. That's the way they see it. So "real" for us takes all of these visions into account. I think this is where a foundation like "The Rule of Six" is very useful. A family consensus of six parameters gives you a flexible framework for a program that works for your family.
Then, there are the ideas and the support. I was the one who declared emphatically at the new year that I would never blog. Three months later, I was too sick to sit at the computer,and Lissa was spoonfeeding me my blog. But her persuasion was that it would help me to be accountable and give me a greater creative outlet than the columns do. She was absolutely right.
It also adds another dimension to our sense of community. Blogs are so much more visual than message boards and yahoo lists. There is so much opportunity to express your personality. And so, there is so much opportunity to know better someone else's personality. The exchange of ideas is awesome. But again, the ideas in other people's blogs have to be filtered through the three visions of education in your household. Does that idea fit your "Rule of Six?" (or five, or seven, or whatever works for you and your family). There are mornings when I'm reading that I want life to look like Alice's. I always envisioned myself as the mother of many daughters. I still think I'm suited more to that than a rowdy group of boys who are physically gifted in ways I can't even comprehend fully. But God thinks otherwise and, frankly, some of things that work in Alice's cottage won't work in my learning room. That doesn't mean I can't learn from her or be inspired by her. It just means that I must FIRST keep my eyes on my own work. Then I can glean what's best for the unique mission God has entrusted to me. If I can remember to focus on my children while drawing inspiration from other people's blogs, I don't have to stop reading because I can read and still be real.
And yes, I think we all put our best face on when we publish. I've published about bad days before and I try to be forthcoming about my faults. But people want you to resolve a problem if you admit one. That's just our nature. And, frankly, as one dear friend reminds me frequently, it's not all everybody's business. We are entitled to some privacy. I think of our collection of blogs as a magazine, full of great articles from contributing editors. Occasionally, there will be a piece that makes you cry or leaves a mystery unsolved, but that's the exception. It's just a magazine, not a comprehensive manual on how to live a real life. I find that my wrestling with how to live a real life can still take place in this community, but it's private emails and phone conversations with a trusted few that yield the fruitful growth much more than the public, polished pieces on the blogs. The blogs might spark the conversations and the introspection, but they aren't the final word.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cindy
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Hello Friends-
Cay asked me about putting that blog post here which prompted me to come visit! I am very flattered to have it posted here... and enjoyed the comments from everyone.
I also had changed slightly the wording about visiting other sites and blogs. I added the thought that I have to discern if I am in the mode of reaching out, or the mode of needing to be in and contemplate. I have to be very, very careful about comparing and find that sometimes it is the season to be out and sometimes not.
I think it has been said here, too.. and I have found this whole blogging scene to be a wonderful way to connect. What a blessing.
Anyway I read your posts, then found myself posting a response on another list and realized I was answering a lot of what was said here! About how to keep it real, when to try and stretch the kids, etc. Oh, this brain is getting so old.. lol
So, fwiw, here is some of that post. I edited it a bit to make more sense. Just my thoughts and of course not everyone will agree.
I told Cay it was fun to see the big spike in visitors I got to my blog after she posted the url here. lol Wheeee!
God Bless- and I hope everyone is having a blessed fall!
Cindy
*******
Tonight my dh and oldest are in Florida.. so my 13yo and I are going to 'stretch'. We just got back from playing tennis and....Hah! I gave him a run for his money. lol
He has also agreed to give Gone With the Wind DVD a try... I warned him about the big dresses and thick drawls! But I thought it might be a good follow up to the Ken Burns Civil War documentary he just watched and enjoyed.
This is a perfect example, really, now that I think about it. My 'Idyllic Homeschool Alter-Ego' would love to plan this all out.. watch GWTW, read Killer Angels and Uncle Tom's Cabin (which I just picked up from the library), and Red Badge of Courage, reserach maps on the Internet and do a picture perfect unit study on the Civil War since my son so much enjoyed the DVDs. How much do I ask? That is the art, to me. I love to plan. I would have been a very happy KONOS mom had I had the 'right' (lol) kids.
So, we will try GWTW. And Killer Angels. And I will try not to let my IHAE take over and see if my ds is making connections, but encourage him to try.
(And try to keep this 'real' and not me trying to please some unseen judge)
Did anyone read Homeschooling Our Children, Unschooling Oursevles? Allison McKee had a great example in there about when her son decided to do a nature study. And she killed it for him with all her 'plans and suggestions.'. That often comes back to me when I get going....
Yup.. this is an art.... I have a long way to go.
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Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
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Leonie
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Hi Cindy - nice to see your name and your post!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: What's Real?
