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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
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I'm bummed.  We're on a really limited budget this year for books and such. I ordered several things from CHC that aren't what I thought they'd be. The return policy does not allow returns on shrink wrapped items. They are shrink wrapping some books (like the Science 1,2,3 book and Devotional Stories for Little Folks) now ladies, so be forewarned. I think this is really unfortunate since they were not at any conferences any where close by this year. There's no way to see the stuff ahead of time and once you buy, you're committed. Sigh...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
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Oh, that's a shame. I hope you can get get some help from the Trading Post?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Meredith
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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That IS disappointing, and I was going to suggest Jenn's idea as well, or maybe Cathswap 
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Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
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Sarah
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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I had some disappointments with them also. They sounded so good in the catalog and now they sit on the shelf. 
Is it bad to list what our specific disappointments were about the specific items here on the forum, or will it cause problems?
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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JSchaaf
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 3:28pm | IP Logged
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I think we should be able to talk frankly about our expectations/disappointments/happiness with curricula...maybe we can bring about change!!
Jennifer
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MaryMary
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 3:35pm | IP Logged
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Funny, I was disappointed with some of their items as well, especially the Science Easy as 1,2,3. I live in Canada, and our Canadian distributor has stopped distributing CHC. I was having trouble finding out if ANYONE else had taken their place. It is difficult to order any CHC if you live outside the U.S. They were not at the Michigan homeschool conference, either (I usually go to that one.) So I went through the trouble of ordering through one of my friends in Michigan. The reception of my hard-won order was anticlimactic to say the least!!
Mary
Mom 2 3 
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
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The Science one is one I don't want . And it was shrink-wrapped. We need to be able to critique curriculum, without bashing. But the truth is, what works for me, might not work for someone else. It's just hard to know without seeing it and it seems like if you can't see it, they should allow you to return it after inspection...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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mrsgranola
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Elizabeth, if you can't return it, I'll take it off your hands!  I sold it and now I'm going with CHC for Mary next year and need it again. 
I do hope we can share details here about what you like and don't like about curricula. I really need this info. as we are tight on $$ more than ever right now...
JoAnna, the MODG closet unschooler with CHC tangeants
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Meredith
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I agree that we should be able to discuss, although always keeping in mind a gentle critique so as not disparage
Elzabeth, have you tried emailing Theresa with your displeasure, she has always been more than accomodating with me. Just a thought.
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Meredith
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 5:08pm | IP Logged
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Meredith wrote:
I agree that we should be able to discuss, although always keeping in mind a gentle critique so as not disparage
Elzabeth, have you tried emailing Theresa with your displeasure, she has always been more than accomodating with me. Just a thought. |
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I'm going to call her. Maybe it's just cost-prohibitive to allow returns...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 6:46pm | IP Logged
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This makes me more than a little nervous about ordering from them...Are you able to know in advance what is shrink-wrapped and what isn't?
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Noreen
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KellyJ
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I am pretty sure the item description indicates shrink-wrap, if it is indeed shrink-wrapped. Syllabi are shrink-wrapped for certain.
KellyJ
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Rebecca
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When I bought the science years ago it was shrink wrapped because it is three hole punched and therefore copyable. They do not allow returns on unbound items fir sure otherwise people would photocopy and then return (though not you Elizabeth).
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 19 2006 at 8:05pm | IP Logged
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Devotional Stories for Little Folks is shrinkwrapped. It doesn't say so in the catalog on the Second Grade page or on the "Favorite Gifts" page, but it does say so on the Phonics page. Science 1-2-3 does say so on the Science page, but it doesn't say so on the Second Grade page.. I should have paid closer attention. I ordered using the checklist on the left side of the webpages. I've read this catalog so many times, I never thought to check on shrinkwrapping.Oh well...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Genevieve
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Elizabeth,
DId you like devotional stories for little folks?
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Genevieve
The Good Within
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 20 2006 at 4:38am | IP Logged
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Rebecca wrote:
| When I bought the science years ago it was shrink wrapped because it is three hole punched and therefore copyable. They do not allow returns on unbound items fir sure otherwise people would photocopy and then return (though not you Elizabeth). |
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That's what I thought and that makes sense. But it's not three whole punched now. It's bound and so is the Devotional Stories book (which I have opened yet Genevieve...)
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Shari in NY
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We have Devotional Stories and liked it but as a read aloud. I'm afraid no 2nd grader of mine could ever read it on his own  Some of the stories are used with the religion part of the 2nd grade curriculum too.
Shari
Psalm 122:6
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Courtney
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We've also used Devotional Stories several times as a read aloud. My kids seem to like most of the stories.
Does anyone know if the 3rd gr science, Behold and See 3 is shrinkwrapped? I've been contemplating ordering this.
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Ouiz
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Oh dear... I can't remember, and I just ordered Behold and See...
However, I must say that the book is beautiful, and I am so thrilled to have gotten it. I had looked around at various science books for my 3rd grade son, and this one looks like it will work well for us.
I hope someone else can remember if it was shrink-wrapped or not!
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 20 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged
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I'm feeling a bit "Brave-New-Worldish." Had a midwife appointment this morning and spent the early afternoon doing a project with the kids and haven't had much of a chance for email or phone calls.
Went to check my mail and apparently someone has reported my complaint to Theresa before I had a chance to call her . Here, in its entirety, is her explanation of the return policy:
Dear Elizabeth,
We’ve heard through that wonderfully active Catholic grapevine J that there’ve been some questions about our no-return policy of shrink-wrapped materials, and would like to explain more clearly the unfortunate, and sometimes sad, reasons that led up to this policy.
In the past, CHC accepted almost all returns. While many customers were very careful in handling their items for return, all too frequently, returned items came back with smudges, bent, torn, or missing pages and covers, and even with writing in them.
We also learned that widespread photocopying was occurring, so that purchasers, by copying and returning, were able to use our materials while we bore the cost. Often, these materials, too, were returned damaged.
This damage, large and small, rendered the materials unfit for resale to the rest of our customers, so that our company took a loss. While the ‘CHC Family’ counts thousands of members, we are nevertheless a small family business, operating under a small profit margin so that we can continue to serve our CHC families.
We could see that, if our policy continued, we would either have to raise prices, placing the burden on the rest of our customers, close our doors, or change our policy on returns.
Therefore, we encourage all those who are selecting materials, before purchase, to browse the sample pages posted on our website and read carefully the FAQ’s and commentary posted by those who have happily used the materials in question.
In the end, knowing whether a particular book is going to be a perfect fit with a particular child will be determined not so much by looking at the book, but by actually using it. However, CHC has a pretty strong track record, with thousands and thousands of pleased users, who continue to homeschool with CHC materials and recommend our programs to their friends.
“The materials I ordered are very beautiful, very inspired, and very excellent quality. This curricula is strengthening the faith of not just our child, but our entire family. Catholic Heritage Curricula is just what we were looking for and the answer to our prayers…Thank you for such a wonderful way for families to educate and grow with their children.” –Maureen
Of CHC's entire catalog of 400 titles, only 25 books (8 of these are the Artpacs) are shrink-wrapped and cannot be returned. To inform the customer, shrink-wrapped titles are noted as such in the product ads of both our print and online catalogs.
Each of these 25 titles is shrink-wrapped for one of two reasons. Either the title is a popular gift item and the shrink-wrap ensures the book will arrive in pristine condition for gift-giving, or it is a resource which, prior to shrink-wrapping, had sadly been subject to widespread photocopying. As noted, purchasers, by copying and returning, were using the materials while CHC bore the cost. [We have received reports of astounding copyright abuse by many who photocopied indiscriminately, often not only for themselves but for friends and even entire homeschool groups!] Therefore, we have had to employ a return policy making sales of shrink-wrapped materials final, as published online (http://www.chcweb.com/catalog/ordering_policy.html) and in our print catalog.
I earnestly wish we could somehow be able to sort out the requests of sincere, godly people from those who have abused the return policy to the loss of all—customer and CHC alike—but we have learned to our sorrow that this is not possible.
We pray that our widely accepted, affordable books, programs, materials, and the numerous free services that we do offer, nevertheless benefit and support our families as they homeschool today, and for eternity.
Wishing you God’s richest blessings,
Theresa Johnson
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Please let me be very clear: I like CHC very, very much! And I think I've been very supportive of them here and on my blog in the last year. (I don't have time to provide all the links to positve recommendations, but if someone else does, please feel free . There are dozens of them.) Perhaps the person who reported my complaint could go back and report all the positive things said.
I should have called Theresa before I let you all know, but I do admit to being a bit more than a bit embarrassed that someone informed her before I had that chance, particularly since I said I was going to call.I feel like I was called into the prinicpal's office.
I do understand the return policy. I think my frustration had more to do with the fact that when I finally sat down to order (after reading the catalog a million times), I wasn't looking at the page that said the product was shrink-wrapped.Some product descriptions make no mention of that, and the checklist order form on the leefthand side of the webpages didn't, nor should they necessarily. I made a mistake and assumed a book would not be shrink-wrapped. I did ask for advice here specifically on the Science 1-2-3 book. But you all can't possibly know what is on my shelves and so you can't know whether I already have several other books that serve that purpose. And, honestly, I wasn't even aware that there were sample pages online. Missed that somehow. It's not CHC's fault. It's entirely my fault. But I'm still frustrated and I still wish they'd been at one of the two local Catholic homeschooling conferences. I have seven children for whom to plan--it gets confusing sometimes to keep every child and every item and every company straight.
I apologize to Theresa and to CHC for making this public.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Curriculum Returning and Refunding
