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Martha in VA
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I realize this isn't the intended place to post introductions but I wanted to say so much more than just an intro. and was afraid it would get lost in the very long introductions thread.
I am in my 6th year of homeschooling our four daughters - ages, 11, 9, 7, 4 - and in my 14th year of marriage to my wonderful husband.
I "met Jesus" in a very evangelical setting while at the University of Virginia many moons ago. I have always been protestant and therefore was very challenged when I met my Roman Catholic husband. We have been at an Anglican parish for 13 years. Over the past year, the Holy Spirit has been reshaping our hearts as we have read the early church fathers and other writings by both anglican and catholic authors. I am now a candidate in RCIA.
We know we are leaving our Anglican parish but aren't yet certain where we will land - Roman Catholic or Orthodox. Please pray for wisdom for my husband as he seeks the Lord about His best for our family. Also pray that I'll know when to speak and when to listen to my Dh for I already believe Rome is the place for me and this evangelical cannot wait to get there. 
For the past few months, I have had the joy of discovering the blogs of many of the wonderful women on these forums. Your passionate faith has blessed my heart. Many of my fears about Roman Catholocism have melted away as I have been blessed to peek into your families and watch you live out your faith. Thank you for the incredible witness you have both here and on your blogs. Your families are beautiful and your passion for our Lord contagious.
Everyday I visit this forum feeling so excited to discover more of what it looks like for a Catholic family to live their faith. I leave here feeling encouraged and inspired. Thank you for that!
Blessings to you all,
Martha
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kjohnson
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Martha in VA wrote:
| We know we are leaving our Anglican parish but aren't yet certain where we will land - Roman Catholic or Orthodox. |
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Welcome, Martha. I was so happy to find your introduction and am always thankful to meet another homeschooler with children of similar ages to mine.
What a blessing that the Holy Spirit has led you on a journey to the ancient Faith. I know your journey is both exciting and difficult. Our family struggled in discerning our place in the church for 2 years. All of our family (my husband and I and all 4 of our children were chrismated Orthodox Christians. This past May we were welcomed into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church in a very private, intimate ceremony in the chapel of our parish church.
The decision between the Roman Catholic Faith and the Orthodox Faith is a much more arduous process. It's definitely not as cut and dry as the decision between the Protestant traditions and Catholc. And apologetic materials are not as abundant as those aimed at Protestant/Catholic differences. But having gone through an agonizing 2 years of discernment on this very issue, and finally being at peace about our decision, I want to offer you any help I can. I have lots of resources and have spent many an hour in exciting matches of "priest pong" (that is, questioning our Orthodox priest on a matter dividing the east and west and then presenting the answer to a Catholic priest...back and forth, over and over).
But if nothing else, you have a friend should you need one and you will find that here among all of these lovely and generous ladies. I obviously have not been a member of this forum for a long amount of time, but it (every single person involved) has become very dear and close to my heart.
God be with you on your journey and feel free to private message me if you like.
__________________
In Christ,
Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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Elizabeth
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Dear Martha,
How many moons ago were you at the University of Virginia? Maybe we were there together.
I'm so glad you introduced yourself. Be assured of our prayers as you discern.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Martha in VA
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Thank you, Katherine, for your encouragement. Yes, it is good to find someone who has recently wrestled with these same issues. It is exciting and very hard at the same time. I love the reference to "priest pong". That is indeed what we are doing! 
Elizabeth, I was at UVA from 1986 through 1991. Did our paths overlap?
Thank you both for your prayers.
Martha
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alicegunther
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Praying for you, dearest Martha!
I had four girls in a row too, and some of their ages are similar to yours--12, 11, 9, and almost 7!
__________________
Love, Alice
mother of seven!
    
Cottage Blessings
Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
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jdostalik
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Hello, Martha! Have you and your husband researched the Eastern Rite Catholic Church? It is in full communion with Rome but if you are drawn to Eastern Christian sprituality, you might find a happy home there.
If you go to EWTN's website, they have a Question and Answer forum on Eastern Catholic Churches with an expert in Eastern Rite Theology who answers questions about Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
Also, as many of the members here already know, I am an admirer of the Servant of God, Catherine Doherty. I have read many of her books and she is a wonderful woman who literally is a bridge between East and West. She was raised in Russia and her mother was Orthodox, her father Catholic. She ultimately converted to Catholicism and her cause for canonization in the Catholic Church has been opened. Her husband, Eddie Doherty, was a priest in the Eastern Rite (I believe Melchite) Catholic Church. Her apostolate, Madonna House , is simply wonderful!!
You have four children practically the same ages as mine, too--I have four girls a 11, 9, 4, and 2 with an almost 7 year old boy! I want to assure you of our prayers for you and your dh and your whole family! So glad you are here!! Hugs! 
__________________
God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
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Martha in VA
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jdostalik wrote:
Hello, Martha! Have you and your husband researched the Eastern Rite Catholic Church? It is in full communion with Rome but if you are drawn to Eastern Christian sprituality, you might find a happy home there.
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Thank you for that recommendation. Actually, I'm not drawn in the Eastern direction at all. It's more a matter of can I accept the Magisterium and the dogmas about Mary. I'm beginning to believe I can joyfully embrace those things. Now, I'm waiting for the Lord to bring my husband to the same place. Also, there are no Eastern Rite parishes in our town.
Thanks for your prayers and your warm welcome.
Martha
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MacBeth
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Hey Martha! Welcome!
You might want to check out Fr. Neuhaus' book Catholic Matters, where he discusses the issues that many Anglicans and Lutherans discover when converting to the Orthodox Church (and it's just a great book all 'round).
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
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kjohnson
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Martha in VA wrote:
It's more a matter of can I accept the Magisterium and the dogmas about Mary. I'm beginning to believe I can joyfully embrace those things. Now, I'm waiting for the Lord to bring my husband to the same place.
Martha |
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I understand exactly what you are saying, Martha. We saw quite a few Protestant converts (some Anglican, but (mostly evangelicals) received into the Orthodox Church at our parish. One common factor that we saw with each family coming in was that they took issue with the Marian dogmas and papal primacy. Those always seemed to be the main hurdles.
What we found was that the Marian dogmas are also within Orthodoxy. They are not formally defined by the Orthodox Church, but they are preserved in the liturgy, the hymnology and most especially, the Iconography. The matter of Mary's sinlessness is the best example that I found in exploring this matter between east and west. In the west the teaching is an infallible dogma, defined ex cathedra. In the east it is a pious belief that is preserved in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (the Theotokos is referred to as Immaculate many, many times throughout the Divine Liturgy, which dates back to the 4th century).
But you will find conflicting opinions within Orthodoxy on the matter. Although the east and west describe Original Sin and the Ancestral Curse using different terminology, you'll find in the Orthodox Church of America a general belief that Mary was indeed sinless, while in the Greek jurisdictions a new teaching on Mary as having committed venial sins. The Fathers of the Church speculate on Luke 1:35, concluding that Mary was purified by the Holy Spirit the day of Annunciation, in order for her to become the "worthy Mother of God." However, even after she gave birth to the Son of God, Mary was not exempted of less serious ("venial") sins. Greek Orthodox Archdioces of America-on dogmatic tradition
So, ironically, the matter of the Magesterium that was highlighted by the issue of Marian dogmas is a primary (among many) reason why were are Roman Catholic. Without the Magesterium, the faith is subject to changes and general confusion. Once the east broke from the west, they never met in ecumenical council again and the lack of authority is apparent in the jurisdictional inconsistencies. The idea of Magesterium is there in Orthodoxy, its just a hiearchy that takes the shape of a trapezoid rather than a pyramid. The Orthodox have beautifully preserved worship and pious practices and I miss that very, very much, but preservation is secondary to the need for an active Magesterium. Since heresies didn't die out in the year 1054, I am so thankfully as a Roman Catholic to know that the Church has the authority to teach.
Again, you are in my prayers. It's a hard leap for everyone that I have encountered.
I can't recommend enough Vladimir Soloviev's book The Russian Church and the Papacy. Soloviev was a friend of Fyodor Dostoevesky and actual was the model for his main character, Alexy, in The Brothers Karamazov. Anway, he was a Russian Orthodox convert to the Catholic Church and does an amazingly beautiful job of describing the need for the papacy and the active Magesterium. It's definitely a must read.
__________________
In Christ,
Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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Elizabeth
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Thank you Katherine! That was one of the best articulated apologies I've read. Two of my children have Serbian Orthodox godparents and we visted this topic quite seriously, particularly when we saw abuses in our local parish. You've done a great job of getting to the heart of the matter. 
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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And Martha, you put your intro in the right place. See where the conversation is going?
BTW, we were in Charlottesville together for at least a year. I graduated in 1987.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Martha in VA
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MacBeth wrote:
Hey Martha! Welcome!
You might want to check out Fr. Neuhaus' book Catholic Matters, where he discusses the issues that many Anglicans and Lutherans discover when converting to the Orthodox Church (and it's just a great book all 'round). |
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Thank you, MacBeth. The book you mention is actually already on my request list at our local library.
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Martha in VA
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kjohnson wrote:
What we found was that the Marian dogmas are also within Orthodoxy. They are not formally defined by the Orthodox Church, but they are preserved in the liturgy, the hymnology and most especially, the Iconography. The matter of Mary's sinlessness is the best example that I found in exploring this matter between east and west. In the west the teaching is an infallible dogma, defined ex cathedra. In the east it is a pious belief that is preserved in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (the Theotokos is referred to as Immaculate many, many times throughout the Divine Liturgy, which dates back to the 4th century).
But you will find conflicting opinions within Orthodoxy on the matter. Although the east and west describe Original Sin and the Ancestral Curse using different terminology, you'll find in the Orthodox Church of America a general belief that Mary was indeed sinless, while in the Greek jurisdictions a new teaching on Mary as having committed venial sins. The Fathers of the Church speculate on Luke 1:35, concluding that Mary was purified by the Holy Spirit the day of Annunciation, in order for her to become the "worthy Mother of God." However, even after she gave birth to the Son of God, Mary was not exempted of less serious ("venial") sins. Greek Orthodox Archdioces of America-on dogmatic tradition
So, ironically, the matter of the Magesterium that was highlighted by the issue of Marian dogmas is a primary (among many) reason why were are Roman Catholic. Without the Magesterium, the faith is subject to changes and general confusion. Once the east broke from the west, they never met in ecumenical council again and the lack of authority is apparent in the jurisdictional inconsistencies. The idea of Magesterium is there in Orthodoxy, its just a hiearchy that takes the shape of a trapezoid rather than a pyramid. The Orthodox have beautifully preserved worship and pious practices and I miss that very, very much, but preservation is secondary to the need for an active Magesterium. Since heresies didn't die out in the year 1054, I am so thankfully as a Roman Catholic to know that the Church has the authority to teach.
Again, you are in my prayers. It's a hard leap for everyone that I have encountered.
I can't recommend enough Vladimir Soloviev's book The Russian Church and the Papacy. Soloviev was a friend of Fyodor Dostoevesky and actual was the model for his main character, Alexy, in The Brothers Karamazov. Anway, he was a Russian Orthodox convert to the Catholic Church and does an amazingly beautiful job of describing the need for the papacy and the active Magesterium. It's definitely a must read. |
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This is very helpful Katherine. I have not heard of the Soloviev book so I'm grateful for that recommendation.
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Martha in VA
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Elizabeth wrote:
And Martha, you put your intro in the right place. See where the conversation is going?
BTW, we were in Charlottesville together for at least a year. I graduated in 1987. |
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This conversation is indeed very helpful. About Charlottesville, we loved it so much we never left!! 
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kjohnson
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Two of my children have Serbian Orthodox godparents and we visted this topic quite seriously, particularly when we saw abuses in our local parish. |
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It's hard when we see abuses among us no matter where we are. Regarding liturgical abuses, it is easy to look at the ancient traditions and Liturgy preserved in the east and want to find refuge there. But the Orthodox struggle with the same issues. Many jurisdictions are modernizing and you find the more traditional Orthodox fleeing to different jurisdictions to escape the innovations just like you see Catholics taking refuge in the Latin Mass.
And the Orthodox Church is no stranger to sex scandals either. The Roman Catholic Church, being more of a world presence, gets all the press. But we experienced the heartache of clergy sexual misconduct at our own Orthodox parish (2 of the 3 trusted (SO trusted!) priests of our parish). It was beyond devastating.
But we'll never escape that no matter where we go. Searching for sinless clergy is simply the Donatist heresy. And if 1 of the 12 Apostles was a traitor, there's no reason to really be surprised by all of it, I guess.  Regardless, I don't think we'll ever be comfortable among the abuses, but I try to remind myself that the greatest saints came from times of the greatest heresy, abuse and controversy. 
__________________
In Christ,
Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Intro. and giving thanks for you ladies..
