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Mrs. B
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| Posted: July 28 2014 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Does anyone use Seton? I'm kind of wondering how to keep to the spirit of CM while joining with Seton for this coming year. If it's even doable. I definitely need the extra encouragement of the counselors, and the workbooks for the kids will be easier than trying to do the lesson planning myself.
Does anyone kind of blend them?
I need to update my siggy but I have the two twins who are 18 months old, and we are out of the house 3 times a week for lessons and tutoring, which will continue this coming year. I feel completely over busy.
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dd-10, ds-8, dd-5, ds-2
and a bunch of rabbits, a pack of dogs, a clowder of cats, and some fish.
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setonmom
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| Posted: July 28 2014 at 6:51pm | IP Logged
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I use Seton. I'm not really a Charlotte MAson style person, but some things we do are 4-H ( the 4-H motto is learn by doing) also my husband reads classic literature to the children out loud every Sunday. Also I typically have 100 library books checked out at any given time so the kids have plenty to read about in their free time.
I've never really tried to blend the two ( CM and Seton), but this past year I was in a co-op that was literature based for history, maybe you could supplement the Seton history with some literature. Of course, trying to blend the two would take a certain amount of planning time, which it sounds like you don't have.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: July 28 2014 at 8:02pm | IP Logged
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I have never used Seton or any other curriculum, but I have a lot of friends who use MODG.
1)I don't think using Seton is going to make you feel less over busy. From what I hear, it takes a lot of time.
2)If you want to keep a CM flavor while still having the support of enrollment and counselors, MODG might be a consideration.
If you have definitely decided Seton is the best fit in this season, I imagine that some ways to make any curriculum have more of a Charlotte Mason flair would be have a good stack of read alouds going--perhaps look over Mater Amabilis's suggested reading list for whatever era of history your children are studying and the suggested literature for the grades to pick and choose. Get lots of audio books for all those car rides!
Nature study, folk music/hymns, and memory work might be doable additions, too.
I am thinking that some other things could get redundant quickly. If you are expected to ask comprehension questions but can substitute narration for the books for which this would be appropriate (some texts will not narrate well, but literature selections would), that would work, but I would not ask for both. Just asking for narrations when you can or having "big juicy conversations" about your read alouds will help hone the skill and habit of attention so that you can perhaps pick up with CM in a different season.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mrs. B
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| Posted: July 28 2014 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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I guess I think the spirit of Charlotte Mason is living and interesting reading, nature appreciation which includes natural history and art/drawing and exploring and being outside, I'm not really sure what else.
It's been a real struggle these last few years to keep going with it. I've been thinking about 4-h too, they might like that quite a lot. We've had to give up every social activity this last year because it simply wouldn't work with the busy schedule and we spent so much time in the car driving...erggg.
I'm hoping the workbook style will take a bit of pressure off me. I forgot to add my two oldest are also dyslexic so I'll be working with the Special Services department.
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~ * mama to a houseful~ *
dd-10, ds-8, dd-5, ds-2
and a bunch of rabbits, a pack of dogs, a clowder of cats, and some fish.
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Mrs. B
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| Posted: July 28 2014 at 8:09pm | IP Logged
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Well, we have used MODG in the past to help supplement before and I don't think it's a good fit for us this coming year. It's just too much considering I don't have a lot of energy and my kids are dyslexic as well. Seton is more familiar to me since I actually graduated from Seton myself, and don't feel like I can cobble a curriculum together for them this year.
We do our own piano and art and crafts, nature study and poetry/memory work, read alouds, and I'm sure we'll continue most of that -I think.
I think I'm looking for a little bit more accountability for myself and the kids, as well as a bit more motivation for my eldest. Seton also is very good at preparing children to write- and that's something I can't get to much right now. I really stress out about being able to do the basic school stuff with each kid, over the last few years I planned a lot but only could accomplish a little of what I planned.
Thanks for replying.
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~ * mama to a houseful~ *
dd-10, ds-8, dd-5, ds-2
and a bunch of rabbits, a pack of dogs, a clowder of cats, and some fish.
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Mom21
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| Posted: July 29 2014 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
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I'll just chime in a bit. We use Seton and I would never use anything else. My son will be in 8th grade and has always been fully enrolled. I think Seton gets a bad rap at times for being "too much work" BUT they constantly tell parents that the lesson plans are SUGGESTIONS, not what you HAVE to do every day. As long as you are submitting the work that Seton requires for a grade each quarter, then you're doing what you need to do.
I like the fact that I don't have to do anything as far as creating lesson plans, assignments, tests, etc. The books are thoroughly Catholic. Also, your child will learn how to write and do it well.
The counselors are exceptional, many of whom used Seton with their own children.
I also like that Seton is accredited, especially during high school when grades and transcripts become so important.
The routine of Seton is very predictable from year to year. I could probably just give my son his lessons plans on Day 1 and he'd know the drill. There is a lot of value in that routine and not changing things up from year to year. I like that and so does my son.
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MomTo8
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| Posted: July 30 2014 at 5:49am | IP Logged
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I am fairly new to homeschooling, so I don't have a ton of experience, and I am using Seton this year for the five kids that I am homeschooling. I love the idea of Charlotte Mason, but I also need the accountability of Seton. I do plan to only fully enroll my 6th grade daughter and focus only on the basics for my younger kids. We will do religion, memory work, history, art, science, music, etc all together in Charlotte Mason fashion. I hope that it will be the best of both worlds! 
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kristinannie
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| Posted: July 30 2014 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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This year is very crazy for me as well and I needed a little bit more structure so I am using Our Lady of Victory. I did not enroll. I use Right Start for math and I do not do their spelling because we do dictation. I have found that it is very CM friendly. Their science, nature readers, and art readers are delightful. I do Morning Basket in addition. We sometimes do it all at once, but often times read the books throughout the day during meals or listen to them while driving in the car. Some seasons in life call for more structure. I'll pray for your discernment!
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 31 2014 at 9:18am | IP Logged
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This is a great conversation and question, Mrs. B - combining CM and Seton! I have a definite, unequivocal answer for you to consider...but before I get to that, I wanted to introduce myself a bit and self-identify as a Classical-Charlotte-Mason home educator. We use philosophy and method of Charlotte Mason, embracing and living out classical principles.
The 4Real home education message boards grew out of a Catholic Charlotte Mason yahoo group, and have always existed to serve home educators that design and build their own curriculum around living books and ideas because there has never been, nor does there currently exist (to my knowledge), any other form of community support for those families save the help and encouragement this board provides. Thus, you'll find a home for conversations and advice on Classical education, Charlotte Mason and even Unschooling here...but not much on Seton. And that's because...
Seton homeschool offers their own support system to those home educators that find it a fit for them. So, the best Seton support is going to be with Seton, while this board has always sought to serve a group of home educators that have no other support elsewhere - they design and build their own living books curriculum. The ladies here do it well! Many have faced the same challenges you're facing, Mrs. B.
I would love to brainstorm with you if you'd like, Mrs. B - ideas to pull a realistic plan of action together. One that takes into account your season of life. This is the beauty of a curriculum that you and your husband prayerfully consider and implement. Of course, Seton may just be the best fit for your family right now, and that's fine, too. I'm always going to make a case for a living book education, believing very strongly that living books and ideas light imaginations from within and motivate and excite a learner from within rather than exerting an educational impetus from an outside source (someone else's plans, requirements, quizzing, testing, standards). The best people to make this decision for your family are you and your husband, and I firmly believe and trust that!
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I'd love to share just a bit about a Charlotte Mason education (and some things that may be misunderstood), rigor, structure and accountability:
1) On accountability, structure, and our duties as parents. Holy Mother Church gives parents the responsibility to educate their own children (CCC 2223), and through the Sacrament of Matrimony, God gives us the grace to meet this responsibility. (Father Hardon discusses this beautifully!) It starts and stops there. I am accountable to my husband, and we both are accountable before God for the education of our children. There are times that parents may delegate that responsibility elsewhere - such as parents that enroll their children in brick-and-mortar schools, or if you sign up with a provider such as Seton. But it is a delegation, not abdication of our authority. We are still obliged to exercise our role of authority...which means that parents must still be involved, and perhaps even more so since you'll be taking a structured thing with a definite shape and form and applying it to your family which will never have the same shape or form as the structured thing. I point this out so that there is a realistic understanding that just because you sign up with a provider, it doesn't mean you're excused from work. Instead of investing time and work on the front end of the journey (building plans and providing books that will meet your children and family season), you're going to work on the back end (enforcing someone else's plans that will request a requisite amount of time spent and skill level brought to the table, neither of which may be reasonable). So however you shake this thing out, we parents are going to work...and work hard. Eliminating the idea of prepackaed=less work as an unrealistic expectation should allow one to look at the idea of Seton as a fit based on its offerings and expectations rather than the hope that it will somehow take work off your plate.
A seasoned Seton mom points out that she doesn't feel she has to work much to implement Seton now: she's able to rely on routine, experience and order. Guess what? I don't feel I have to work as hard these days as I used to. I've cultivated habits, routine, order and enough experience that I, too, am able to enjoy the fruits of that earlier work. But I still work. It's my job, my responsibility.
2) Charlotte Mason is not education-lite. It is a classical education in every sense of the word. It is rigorous and deep. Students read widely and classically and are educated using the same methods of reading, thinking, and writing/communicating (these would be the skills of the classical Trivium --> grammar, logic, and rhetoric) that have been taught for centuries - the same methods that taught St. Paul, Thomas Aquinas, Ben Franklin. It is more than its parts which only a cursory glance may have afforded. A word about its parts...
3) Nature study, reading aloud, memory work, etc - these are parts or methods of education. They are common to many educational philosophies, Charlotte Mason and Classical education being a couple. It would be important not to confuse the parts with the whole. A Charlotte Mason education, in its whole form, will use philosophy and methods. It is structured enough to have form and substance, yet malleable enough that relationship and personhood are never overlooked, rather they are considered at the forefront. Of course, you could and should spend time in nature, studying God's magnificent creation, regardless of your choice in curriculum! But adding nature study does not mean you've just blended CM with something else. CM nature study is deep and rich - inviting and nurturing wonder as well as understanding.
4) Combining parts of two different philosophies of education - Seton and Charlotte Mason - would not yield a peaceful, enjoyable day. For one, they are at polar opposite ends of the educational spectrum, and though Seton has some lovely books - I love their early readers, their art books are lovely, and they do use many good books for reading in upper years - their methods are entirely contradictory to a Charlotte Mason/Classical education. For example...
** Seton would probably employ book reports -- whereas Charlotte Mason would ask the child for a narration, written narrations for older children.
** Seton will use texts and reading comprehension questions, quizzes, and testing to ensure mastery of material -- whereas Charlotte Mason will ask the child to read a living book, narrate, and then move to the next lesson -mastery having been accomplished in the step of narrating.
** Seton will use spelling workbooks, vocabulary workbooks, grammar workbooks all in separate compartments of the day -- whereas Charlotte Mason will use the Classical tools of narration, copy work, and dictation to convey all the skills of spelling, writing, speaking, grammar within the context of the daily reading.
These are just a few illustrations of differences, but my point is to show that if you try to combine Seton methods AND Charlotte Mason methods the net result will be burnout and angst of mom and children - that much I could guarantee.
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Now, if building your own CM/Classical plans seems too daunting, Mater Amabilis has done almost all the work for you - chosen beautiful, Catholic books using Charlotte Mason's methods and philosophy, paced them out and laid them out by term. The work that's been left is the necessary work by the parent in considering (family/season) and fitting - which is essential. Or you could take a look at Ambleside Online - the books are chosen by year, broken into terms and a pace is set. I enjoy looking at both, but build my own booklists and write my own plans. And I've done it through some awful times - the loss of my brother, the loss of a child, the birth of children, extreme illness. I'm not saying that to point the finger at me - I didn't do anything extraordinary! I just lived out the challenging seasons and suffering that God gave me. I say that to show that a Classical Charlotte Mason curriculum can provide enough rigor, structure AND flexibility to meet ALL circumstances. It isn't just for those that aren't suffering because they must have the time to work it.
To be certain that I'm not misunderstood - I offer all my prayers of encouragement and support to you, Mrs. B! If, after prayerfully brainstorming this with your husband, Seton is the best fit for your family - then you must go forward with all peace, knowing that you've worked hard to find God's plan for your family and this is where he's leading you now. What I wanted to do here is to try to shine a little more light on a Classical-Charlotte-Mason education, and also, in charity, I did not want to leave a mis-impression about combining these two philosophies because I felt that could only be hurtful and ill fated in the future.
IF....after reading this...you'd like to brainstorm a living education, one that is rooted in ideas, relationships, atmosphere, discipline, and life - you are IN THE BEST PLACE for that! And I'd love to walk with you along that path! 
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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aforb001
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I started homeschooling with the intention of following a classical/ Charlotte Mason approach. However, working outside the home and having a crazy schedule made this difficult, so I enrolled my son in Seton. He is going into 8th gr this year and fully enrolled since 3rd. We both love everything about Seton! I still apply my Charlotte Mason principles with Copywork, memorization, and narration. I do not do much dictation, but that's something neither of us really enjoyed. The readers are beautiful and even the textbooks read like stories. The book report books are mostly historical fiction or classics that I would want him to read anyway. We have done nature study and composer study. He has been doing Latin separate from the curriculum all along and will continue in high school for credit. Full enrollment has given us the structure and accountability with the ease of applying CM ideas. And this board has enriched my homeschooling in many ways besides understanding CM. So pray and know that it can be done with less stress.
God Bless,
Adele
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Mrs. B
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| Posted: Aug 02 2014 at 7:54am | IP Logged
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Thank you for your thoughts, Jen. How kind of you to take so much time to answer me. At the moment, I am peaceful about the decision to join Seton especially for my oldest child, who is very difficult for me to teach right now in the midst of everything going in our life. I think having her responsible to Seton and having her work graded by someone else will be good for her.
Unfortunately, making my own plans doesn't relieve stress for me. I think it makes it worse right now. I remember 4 years ago being so happy putting a year of work together, but then I went through a period of bad health-lost 3 pregnancies in a row, then I developed a anxiety problem and then had the twins and I just haven't been able to get to that happy spot again. It makes me feel awful because their needs have all increased and I can't keep up with all of it. (I have no idea how other people do this.)
I just don't enjoy planning. I'm not giving up on my ideas totally, but I do need a break. I can't send the kids to a suitable school but I think Seton will give me some metal space and will help with my eldest. My husband said there is no problem with trying one year of Seton out.
I know the special services department will allow us alter anything that's not suitable in their curriculum. I've already been talking with them. I plan to try and keep the things that we really love doing like reading good books, nature study, and art and music and one day maybe we'll get back to CM again.
The two websites you linked to are both really beautiful and I use them a little in our school planning. I'm going to keep thinking about your post, it's given me some food for thought.
Thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate it a lot.
Thank you again, Jen.
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~ * mama to a houseful~ *
dd-10, ds-8, dd-5, ds-2
and a bunch of rabbits, a pack of dogs, a clowder of cats, and some fish.
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Mrs. B
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| Posted: Oct 09 2014 at 8:37am | IP Logged
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We un-enrolled from Seton today. We did about 2 weeks of the full seton program (or tried to) and then I said that was enough. What I learned is that I can teach much more effectively what they need to know, without all the book work and worrying about testing.
What I am doing at home is really much better for all of us! So at least I learned something good.
Thanks you.
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~ * mama to a houseful~ *
dd-10, ds-8, dd-5, ds-2
and a bunch of rabbits, a pack of dogs, a clowder of cats, and some fish.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: using Seton
