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Devoted21
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| Posted: July 25 2011 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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I would love to hear some opinions from other Catholic mamas on this ... My kids have been asked to be in the wedding of a non-practicing Catholic family member. The wedding will be performed by some sort of Protestant clergy member. So my understanding is that the wedding won't be considered valid by the Church (please correct me if I'm wrong!), and in that case I'm wondering whether my kids should participate. I don't want to lead my kids astray, but neither do I want to cause a rift in the fam. So if were your kids, what would you do??? My oldest will be 8.
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sewcrazy
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How close a family member?
My daughter and son were in my brother's wedding. It was performed by some sort of non-denominational minister. It would have caused a lot of family strife if I had refused.
We are the only practicing Catholics in my entire family. My children know this and we pray nightly for my family.
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LeeAnn
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organiclilac
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| Posted: July 25 2011 at 12:45pm | IP Logged
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A Catholic can marry a non-Catholic in a non-Catholic ceremony validly if they get a dispensation from the Church and go through all the Church's pre-Cana requirements. So, it is possible that the wedding is still valid - you could ask. I did ask in the case of my cousin - she did not care to go through proper channels to be married validly at her husband's Baptist church, so we did not attend. It's a tough call.
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DominaCaeli
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If there has been a dispensation and the wedding is valid, then it would be fine, I suppose. But if not, then I personally would not have my children be involved.
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Celeste
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mamaslearning
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I was a Baptist and my soon-to-be husband a Catholic when we were married in a Baptist ceremony. Ten years later we both came back to the Catholic church, each child baptized as they were born, and eventually I joined the church and we had our marriage blessed by our Priest (My Priest did say that we had a valid marriage since we were both baptized Christians at the time and we did not have any contact with the Catholic church about our marriage). Because of his family's love and acceptance of me, a Baptist, I wanted to learn more about their Faith.
My nephew is getting married next week in a small ceremony outside and my oldest will be the flower girl. My family is still Baptist, but I hope that through my witness of love I can help bring them to the church.
Just a bit of my story, please I hope no takes offense.
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kristinannie
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I was married by a Protestant minister in an outdoor wedding because my husband's annulment took so many years to go through (the diocese moved and they lost it TWICE, the bishop retired, the pope died, then they lost it again...it was pretty much disasterous). The funny thing was that it was a noncontested annulment and his ex-wife actually said that she was unable to be married, etc. It was so devastating to me not to have a Catholic wedding (although we did all the pre-Cana). When I was 8 months pregnant with John Paul, we did have that Catholic ceremony as part of a regular mass. 
I would not hesitate to let my kids be in a non-Catholic wedding. You can explain that this isn't a Catholic wedding and talk about the differences.
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cathhomeschool
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My bil married a fallen away Catholic several years ago. The ceremony was conducted by a Lutheran (or maybe Methodist...now I can't remember) minister, but it was not in a church. One of my sons was the ring bearer. I share Lara's point of view. It never occurred to me not to attend. However, they were honestly surprised that we were going to go. I found that sad. I wanted to support them. I prayed and still do that they will come to the church. I did not see going to the wedding or having my son participate as in any way "condoning" getting married outside the church for those that should know better. My thought is that if they are not practicing Catholics, then there is a lot of growth that needs to happen for them to realize the immense gift that they are missing. Maybe they never did realize what (WHO) the Eucharist really *IS.* How could anyone who truly knows that Our Lord is *physically present* to us leave the Church? And how can my shutting them out help? (I guess that depends on how the family member is living their life and whether or not attending would be condoning not just a marriage but a whole lifestyle that is opposed to our faith.) It would be different if practicing Catholics chose to be wed by a non-Catholic minister. For me, the question is how can I best "Be Love" in this situation? In some cases holding a person accountable and not attending is more loving -- tough love. In others it's not. This is just my opinion and I don't know the Church's stance on it.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 25 2011 at 5:13pm | IP Logged
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Oh, and I meant to add that if you decide to attend I would definitely explain to the 8yo at least that this is not a Catholic wedding and is therefore not a sacrament (or is it? Baptism is a sacrament even if not in the Catholic church, right? That's why a baptized protestant who becomes Catholic doesn't get re-baptized?). If your kids don't realize that the family member is non-practicing Catholic, I wouldn't even mention it. They don't need to know and it wouldn't help anything. If so, I'd focus on the sadness that they've left the Church and many prayers that God will lead them back. My two cents.
Praying that the Holy Spirit guides your decision and words to what is best for your family.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Erin
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Janette and Lara
Beautifully said, thank you for helping me think deeper about this. 
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JodieLyn
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We did choose to attend and participate. Getting married was definately a step in the right direction from where they were and we wanted to support that as much as we could.
Plus it's really hard to model being Catholic if you've alienated the person you hope to reach. Yes there are things that you don't soften in fact though how you speak can usually be softened. But weddings are so fraught with emotions and other conflicts and often the first really tense meeting in the middle of how his family and her family are different.. it's likely to get a much more emotional response than otherwise.
Now if you can come up with a good reason not to be in the wedding.. that can be different. Same situation with another relative.. we declined being participants because we had a high chance of not being able to be there.. but did end up being able to simply attend, and had no difficulties from declining to participate.
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Devoted21
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These replies have been such a blessing. THANK YOU to all who shared thoughts. This has been on my mind constantly.
To answer a couple of questions, it's my brother getting married, and he has not contacted a priest at all about a dispensation, and he apparently does not intend to. Because he's willfully leaving out the church, I'd initally felt that I would have to tell him no -- nicely, of course, but still no. However, these responses have changed my mind.
Janette, Lara, JodieLyn, I think you're right. I think that even if I explained to my brother why I was saying no, he would still be hurt, and so would his fiancee, and that would only hinder him in (hopefully) coming back to the Church eventually. So I'll let the kids be in the wedding, and I guess I'll just be honest with them if/when they ask questions. It does still pain me, I'll admit.
I will also note that I was actually glad to see that there wasn't a consensus about whether the kids should participate! I've been feeling like perhaps I'm overdramatizing things in my mind, but I feel affirmed that this is indeed a tough and awkward situation with no easy answer.
Blessings to all!
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 25 2011 at 9:32pm | IP Logged
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Devoted21 wrote:
| I've been feeling like perhaps I'm overdramatizing things in my mind, but I feel affirmed that this is indeed a tough and awkward situation with no easy answer. |
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I just have to add that this is SO true! I can't tell you how many times I've come across a situation that I wish was in some God-given instruction manual. And the older I get the fewer answers I seem to have! I use so many brain cells thinking through the situation and the options and decisions, all the while wanting to do the right thing. ...I think that through these struggles of truly trying to discern what is right, for the good of our families or friends or the community, for reasons that are not selfish... through these moments we grow in grace no matter what we decide in the end. I think that the fact that we are trying to do the right thing blesses our families even if we end up doing 'the wrong thing.'
Praying for your brother and his fiance. May God work through your family and speak to their hearts, drawing them close to each other and to Him. May He be the center of their marriage.
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motherheart
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| Posted: July 25 2011 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
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Church laws, social norms, and family dynamics all participate in this decision. I'd look this up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
From The New Saint Joesph Batimore Catechism No. 2, page 219, number 465: "The laws of the Church require a Catholic to be married in the presence of the parish priest, or the bishop of the diocese, or a preist deligated by either of them, or a deacon, and before two witnesses."
p. 139 after number 298: mentions that if a marriage is preformed otherwise, it is not a true marriage and the couple is then living in sin. Also, no Catholic should be present as it shows a sanctioning of this decision.
You have my prayers.
Mary
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juststartn
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| Posted: July 26 2011 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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I'm with Mary on this one.
Its tough, unfortunately. But thank goodness, a situation we haven't had to deal with personally.
My daughters were flower girls for their aunt's wedding, but as I am the only Catholic in the family(I converted after marrying DH), it did not present any difficulties.
Rachel
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MichelleW
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My sister married outside the church and it turned out badly; however, I am so glad that I and my young son attended her wedding. I took my sister out to lunch so many times before the wedding hoping to help her think through her decision, but she would not be convinced.
When things began to go badly, she called me. We talked every night during that year. She couldn't bring herself to call our family members that had "rejected" her by not coming to the wedding. There was no need for me to rehash any of our pre-wedding talks, she knew my opinion. All I did was listen, give gentle advice and pray.
She is now divorced but she has also become a practicing Catholic who is raising her young son to love God and His Church. I truly feel that if I had not attended the wedding, she would have gone ahead with it and then drowned alone in the aftermath. My absence would not have changed her mind back then, but my presence kept the door of relationship opened.
But, I totally understand your hesitation in light of your son's age. You are a good Catholic, a good mama and a good sister to be wrestling with this. Let the Holy Spirit guide you in this. He will speak clearly and give you direction that none of us can.
Blessings and many prayers going your way,
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juststartn
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I think much can be said in HOW one says "no".
Tenderly and lovingly, yes. Gently.
And then have plans that simply will not enable you to be there...like spending the time of the wedding in prayer and adoration.
((HUGS))
Rachel
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Devoted21
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Janette, thank you for the prayers. I do believe that God honors our efforts to follow Him, even if we don't always get it quite right, and I hope that He'll bring some good out of this situation.
Mary and Rachel, I said those same things to myself in the beginning, but thinking about how my brother and his fiancee will probably react is what throws a wrench in my plan. The problem is that my brother just doesn't get it. Even if I explain my position very kindly, I know they'll be offended. If my main goal is for him to ultimately come back to the Church, I feel like I have to be at that wedding. It does pain me to put my children in a wedding God doesn't recognize. I'm thinking that if they ask questions, I could explain that marriage is good and beautiful and we're supporting their uncle's efforts to take part in it. ???
Michelle, I like that you were able to support your sister and be honest with her about your beliefs at the same time. That's a tough balance to strike. I love my brother, and I know that he is not well-catechized and he may just have to learn some things the hard way. I would love to beat them both with the Catechism until they get it. Sigh.
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juststartn
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| Posted: July 28 2011 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
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Is there ANY way you can legitimately say "I'm sorry, we've already got plans we cannot get out of that day" (and spend the time in adoration and prayer? A legitimate plan, to be sure)? Do you live in the same town as the wedding? Do you live in the same region of the country, etc?
I know right now, I'd have a MUCH easier time of saying :"no" to either of my sisters (if I was in your position) simply because of the distance...we live in OK, they are in SC and GA. Its just not feasible.
I understand wanting to be supportive of an "attempt" at marriage, rather than them shacking up, or some such. But attempting something that one KNOWS is wrong (in this instance)...they are trying to celebrate what should be a sacrament. But they are not doing it right. Would we sit by and let someone invalidly consecrate the Eucharist? Would we permit someone not authorized to do so, to confirm our children? How would we explain this to our children? Would we tell our children that "Well, Uncle X is a Catholic, but he decided he knew better, and is doing it his own way"? Or more so, that the rules on marriage "don't really matter, when it comes to family members"? What makes the sacrament of marriage so different from the other sacraments, where the Church speaks on this issue?
Now, notice what I am NOT saying here. I am not saying to call or write a nasty gram email/letter. I am not even suggesting that you make a false excuse or reason for not being there (I am assuming that you would, in fact, make the effort to spend the time/day of the wedding in prayer, fasting, and adoration, were you to take the tack I suggested above). You simply do not say anything about how you feel/believe about this sham of a marriage he is intending to attempt. What you instead say is you are so sorry that you cannot be there/participate (because you are, you would be OVERJOYED to do so were he contracting a valid, sacramental marriage, yes?), but that you have a long-standing prior commitment. And do not divulge any further information. To anyone. Family, etc. Cause it will get back. Just hold to the "we have a prior commitment" line.
Am I being a hardliner? I am sure some believe that I am. Perhaps because it is not my brother, and I have not been in this precise situation, I am ill-suited to discuss it. We have not attended weddings where this situation was the case (only it was not family members, so easier to handle). But I believe that when the Church gives us clear and precise details on who what when where how, and we decide that we can fudge on some of the details without the proper prior permissions/dispensations...we're doing something we'd better not. Is it easy? No, it is not. But I don't believe I remember reading where living a life of faith was meant to be a walk in the park, either. (unless it is a National Park filled with quicksand, unexpected drop-offs, poisonous critters, predators with no fear of humans and a really big appetite, etc, THEN I might agree that its definitely *that* kind of a park!)....
Perhaps send your brother a blessed crucifix for his home? Every one needs one anyway. And it certainly cannot hurt!
Rachel
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MaryM
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Devoted, I wanted to add a really helpful consideration from CUF (Catholics United for the Faith) in one of their Faith Facts tracts.
It starts out with: "The Catholic Church does not explicitly prohibit Catholics from attending weddings whose validity she does not recognize. There are certain moral principles, however, that should be considered before a Catholic decides how to proceed. Most importantly, Catholics must avoid any actions that cause scandal or encourage others to sin."
Should I attend?
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Should I let my kids be in this wedding?
