| Author | |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:27pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I've been trying to track down an older book, which to buy used would cost over $200. So I put in a request for InterLibrary Loan. They turned down the request unless I pay a $20 fee (so it will be $23.00 total). Only two libraries have it, and one refused to loan it, and the other wants to charge this.
As I have never seen this book, and it was ideas for Nature study and literature, I'm just wondering -- is it worth it? $20 to evaluate a book that I might not like?
Funny thing, I can't remember where I read a recommendation of this author (can't remember my rabbit trail).
But what would you do?
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
*Lindsey*
Forum Pro
Joined: May 22 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 496
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I personally wouldn't pay $23!
__________________
Lindsey
Mama to DS (11), DD(9), twin dds(7), DD (5), DS (4), DS (3), and 5 angels in heaven.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I wouldn't either.. I know old books can be wonderful.. but there's usually so many choices that one that's way to expensive can be replaced with others relatively easily.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, Jenn!! That's the kind of thing that would SO bother me! This is hard, but when I'm faced with this kind of dilemma, I let go of the book....for now. I'm sure you already have an ebay saved search for it, if not, do that.
You probably already have some wonderful books for nature study ideas and literature ideas, books that would be sufficient for now. It's possible that one day this book will either be reprinted, or you'll come across an affordable copy.
And...I do have a recommendation for a nature study book that has related literature/poetry in it...if you're interested. ?? And it can be found free on google books. Might be a small consolation!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Can you see if one of us can get it and help review to determine if it is worth it?
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MaryM wrote:
| Can you see if one of us can get it and help review to determine if it is worth it? |
|
|
Good point, Mary! We don't have Worldcat, at least that I know of. I see it's listed in two libraries. I'll PM you.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jennifer, if you can post or email the title, I'll check to see if it's online somewhere. I have an ebook copy of a nature and literature reader (right now it's at the home I'm not at, so the title escapes me). If it's the one your looking for, I'll be happy to send a copy to you. Not a real book, but not $200 either!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'd skip it unless you are really, really insatiably curious.
If you can remember the title, maybe one of us even has it in our personal libraries. I have quite a few really old nature study books stashed away. If I have it I'd be glad to lend it out I'm sure.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Grace&Chaos
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 07 2010
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jenn, my curiousity is absolutely piqued, but I wouldn't pay either.
Jen, please share your title. I'm finding a new love for printing old books found for free on google books  .
__________________
Blessings,
Jenny
Mom to dds(00,03) and dss(05,06,08,09)
Grace in Loving Chaos
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 4:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jenny
I'd love to encourage you to start another thread sharing this love; how to do so and what titles you're loving. 
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SeaStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9068
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
Jenny
I'd love to encourage you to start another thread sharing this love; how to do so and what titles you're loving. |
|
|
Ditto!
Jenn-
At this point I turn it over to St. Anthony, asking him to find the book for me at the right price if it is God's will for me to have it.
__________________
Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Jen, please share your title. I'm finding a new love for printing old books found for free on google books . |
|
|
The book to which I refer is the 1905 edition of a book which I have, use often, and TRULY enjoy! (I know I've mentioned it here and on my blog before.)
I have a 1902 copy of Anna E. McGovern's book, Nature Study and Related Literature. This title was reissued in 1905 under a new name, Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art by Anna E. McGovern. I downloaded the 1905 copy and compared it side-by-side with my 1902 edition. They are very similar, in fact, the meat of the two books is the same - same wording, many of the same lessons, same poetry - but the 1905 edition has rearranged some lessons, adding them to the Table of Contents, which was not done in the same way (or not at all) in the 1902 edition. There are also some additions to the 1905 book and these appear to be in the same style and loveliness of the lessons of the 1902 book. I'm not sure why the 1905 book would be available digitally, but not the 1902 edition, but side-by-side, they're practically identical except that the 1905 edition has clearly been revised. I haven't really dug in yet though. It could be that these books are in fact completely identical, but the 1905 edition arranged and organized the subject matter in a more understandable way. The more I look at it, the more I am inclined to believe this is the case. The 1902 edition has 384 pages, the 1905 edition has 380. Very similar page numbers if significant additions were made.
Anyway, I'll share with you the author's preface which is the same in both books:
Anna E. McGovern wrote:
In the preparation of this book it has been the aim to illustrate by concrete examples, type lessons suitable for each season of the year, and also to emphasize the importance of the poetic presentation of truth in the nature lessons in the lower grades.
The aim of Nature Study is twofold: First, to cultivate the higher nature of the child and lead him toward his Creator; and secondly, to develop his intellectual powers and lead him to acquire a knowledge of his physical environment.
A careful consideration of this twofold purpose suggests the desirability of correlating Nature Study with literature and art. The educational value of the classic poem and beautiful picture in which true art principles are exemplified, in elevating taste and creating a high standard of the beautiful, can scarcely be estimated.
No more potent agents can be found than the poets and the painters in revealing spiritual beauty.
In considering the tree, the flower, the bird, or whatever it may be, poems and stories are included in the plan of study, not for the purpose of giving instruction, but to supplement the subject with literature, which will illumine and crystallize the nature lesson and impress correct ideals of truth and beauty. |
|
|
This gives you a very clear idea of the subject matter of this book and the poetry and lessons contained within are quite extraordinary!
Just for ease of linking and clicking (both of these are free downloads to ereaders or for reading on the computer):
Archive.org version (easiest to read on the computer, also easy to download to a number of ereaders - a free download)
Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art
Google Books version (wanted to be sure to include since Jenny mentioned her talent for turning google books into paper books!)
Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
By the way, I thought I'd share that I found some exciting information on the history of Anna McGovern in researching the differences between these two books. She was a devout Roman Catholic who founded the Catholic Student Association (either as a student or a faculty member) which later became known as the Newman Catholic Association at the University of Northern Iowa (at the time the University was called Iowa State Normal School).
More information on the history of Anna E. McGovern can be read here, at the Knights of Columbus site, St. Stephen the Witness Catholic Student Center.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
time4tea
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 02 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
That would really bug me, but in the end, I would probably not pay $23.00 to just review a book. There are too many other options out there!
__________________
Blessings to you!
~Tea
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:21pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jen,
I downloaded that book when you linked it a few days ago. It's a real treasure trove of nature-related lit. But I am having trouble wrapping my brain around how exactly to use it. Maybe because reading it on the Kindle makes it harder to leaf through and get a feel for the big picture of the book, you know?
So I guess what I'm wondering is exactly how YOU use this book.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Grace&Chaos
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 07 2010
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1261
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mackfam wrote:
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Jen, please share your title. I'm finding a new love for printing old books found for free on google books . |
|
|
The book to which I refer is the 1905 edition of a book which I have, use often, and TRULY enjoy! (I know I've mentioned it here and on my blog before.)
I have a 1902 copy of Anna E. McGovern's book, Nature Study and Related Literature. This title was reissued in 1905 under a new name, Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art by Anna E. McGovern. I downloaded the 1905 copy and compared it side-by-side with my 1902 edition. They are very similar, in fact, the meat of the two books is the same - same wording, many of the same lessons, same poetry - but the 1905 edition has rearranged some lessons, adding them to the Table of Contents, which was not done in the same way (or not at all) in the 1902 edition. There are also some additions to the 1905 book and these appear to be in the same style and loveliness of the lessons of the 1902 book. I'm not sure why the 1905 book would be available digitally, but not the 1902 edition, but side-by-side, they're practically identical except that the 1905 edition has clearly been revised. I haven't really dug in yet though. It could be that these books are in fact completely identical, but the 1905 edition arranged and organized the subject matter in a more understandable way. The more I look at it, the more I am inclined to believe this is the case. The 1902 edition has 384 pages, the 1905 edition has 380. Very similar page numbers if significant additions were made.
Anyway, I'll share with you the author's preface which is the same in both books:
Anna E. McGovern wrote:
In the preparation of this book it has been the aim to illustrate by concrete examples, type lessons suitable for each season of the year, and also to emphasize the importance of the poetic presentation of truth in the nature lessons in the lower grades.
The aim of Nature Study is twofold: First, to cultivate the higher nature of the child and lead him toward his Creator; and secondly, to develop his intellectual powers and lead him to acquire a knowledge of his physical environment.
A careful consideration of this twofold purpose suggests the desirability of correlating Nature Study with literature and art. The educational value of the classic poem and beautiful picture in which true art principles are exemplified, in elevating taste and creating a high standard of the beautiful, can scarcely be estimated.
No more potent agents can be found than the poets and the painters in revealing spiritual beauty.
In considering the tree, the flower, the bird, or whatever it may be, poems and stories are included in the plan of study, not for the purpose of giving instruction, but to supplement the subject with literature, which will illumine and crystallize the nature lesson and impress correct ideals of truth and beauty. |
|
|
This gives you a very clear idea of the subject matter of this book and the poetry and lessons contained within are quite extraordinary!
Just for ease of linking and clicking (both of these are free downloads to ereaders or for reading on the computer):
Archive.org version (easiest to read on the computer, also easy to download to a number of ereaders - a free download)
Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art
Google Books version (wanted to be sure to include since Jenny mentioned her talent for turning google books into paper books!)
Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art |
|
|
Sorry, Jenn if I'm diverting a little.
Jen, I absolutely remember reading about this book on your blog. I looked for it but couldn't find it so it went on a list of authors I was intersted in that I gave my mother-in-law (she works at our library and looks through the friends of the library sales every once in a while) long story short a few months ago she found a book by her titled Stories and Poems with Lesson Plans its just as sweet. Thanks for posting the link. I'll be printing and binding  .
__________________
Blessings,
Jenny
Mom to dds(00,03) and dss(05,06,08,09)
Grace in Loving Chaos
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Heheheh.
I just took a look through a box of old books that were still packed up and what should I find but... Type Lessons for Primary Teachers in the Study of Nature, Literature and Art !!!
I knew it looked familiar!LOL!
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 6:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
That's the one I have, too, in ebook form!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: June 16 2011 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
lapazfarm wrote:
Jen,
I downloaded that book when you linked it a few days ago. It's a real treasure trove of nature-related lit. But I am having trouble wrapping my brain around how exactly to use it. Maybe because reading it on the Kindle makes it harder to leaf through and get a feel for the big picture of the book, you know?
So I guess what I'm wondering is exactly how YOU use this book.
|
|
|
It is helpful to remember that this book was written to encourage teachers within the school system who felt they had no experience or knowledge in Natural History. At the time, Nature Study was virtually unheard of, and Miss McGovern felt that was a travesty. The book was meant to provide teachers an easy to use book to begin to foster a love of Natural History and Nature Study. So this book is most ideally suited to the home educating mom that might feel intimidated to get started with Nature Study, or feels she has no background in Natural History and is concerned she won't be an adequate guide in Nature (which...um...is not you, Theresa!).
I use the book in a variety of ways:
:: Seasonal Poetry - I always pull this book out as we approach the end of one season and the beginning of another in order to plan the next term's seasonal poetry. It is my absolute favorite source for seasonal poetry, and of course, nature related poetry, which is what the author intended.
:: Lesson specific - I review the book seasonally, and find that I offer lessons from it for my elementary students, maybe one or two each term. The little people really enjoy the lessons.
:: Mini-ideas - I enjoy reading through the lesson for mini-ideas I might want to pursue or build on, rather than working the whole lesson. I grab a few ideas to build on rather than investigating an entire chapter. This works out a lot for us since we tend to be pretty relaxed and I really like the kids to observe and make connections on their own. I like the help of the lessons as background and for inspiring ideas and ALWAYS for the lit/poetry connections, but mining the lessons for mini-ideas is probably how I use this book a great majority of the time. An example, I really loved all the ideas at the beginning of the color chapter -
** hang prisms in sunny windows (check! )
** notice the colors of the spectrum in nature (we challenged ourselves and did a sort of ROYGBIV scavenger hunt on our nature walk...crimson in the October Glory Maple leaves, Yellow in the Tulip Poplar, etc....that was a really fun nature walk!)
** blow soapbubbles and notice the colors of the spectrum in the bubbles
:: Questions which prompt investigation - there are always a plethora of these questions in each lesson. Sometimes I just ask a few to jump start an investigation.
:: OOP Book resource treasure chest - I enjoy the book references and lists she offers which might help flesh out a lesson. Sometimes these are at the end of lessons, and there is a long list in the back of my book. Obviously, they're all out of print now, but many can still be found through searches. It's a gold mine of lovely oop books for nature study.
:: Emphasis on CM methods - I really appreciate how she emphasizes CM methods in nature study - a child's own observation of the natural world. She writes of the teacher as the "leader", "lead the children...". I suppose that doesn't really bother me, though I'd rather think of myself more as a participant and learning alongside, but certainly, I could see how you could substitute "guide" for "leader", in that as parent-teachers we sometimes present or guide children to opportunities to explore and observe. Anyway, it's a bit of a tangent, but I wondered if I agreed with this viewpoint at first, but after reading a bit I came to understand that Miss McGovern sees the teacher as a guide, presenting opportunities for observation. I believe that while she hoped her book would be a useful tool for Nature Study, she had no intention that it would replace quiet observations. Using the example of The Morning Glory lesson, the work of the root:
Quote:
| Lead children to see that the roots hold the other members of the (flower) family in place and aid in supporting the stem. <snip> Try several similar experiments and lead children to see that the plants will not live without the root-hairs. Let children get the thought from the plants. |
|
|
That bolded sentence is not included in the 1905 version I noticed, and that's a bummer because I really like that sentence. It's a needed reminder - we're not to present the connection (very CM thought here), the child uncovers the connection.
In the same Morning Glory lesson, she encourages the teacher to illustrate the Morning Glory using only the children's descriptions in order to encourage the children to observe fine details! Thought that was a fantastic idea...and could be extended to a number of activities. It's actually something I use as a kind of healing-making-up-work....when we've had a rough day...and I've been less-than-gentle ( ), I ask the kids to describe something to me in fine detail and I draw it. It's great on a number of levels.
But I digress....
:: Poetry resource for reading aloud during nature sketch time - I read aloud from the poetry and literature selections when the children are adding items to their Nature Sketch books, ESPECIALLY if they are illustrating something pertinent to a lesson or topic because there are always great lit/poetry selections! They really enjoy it when I read aloud while they are painting or sketching. I may not always use the Nature Study lessons as Miss McGovern writes them, but if the children have been out to see their seasonal trees (the children have each chosen a tree, and we visit it and illustrate it seasonally), then I'm cracking this book open and reading poetry or literature from the section on trees.
:: Appendices which are helpful...but slightly irritating in that many of the poems and resources listed would have been nice if they were just included with the lesson appropriate chapter. Maybe that's one of the things that is more intuitively arranged in the 1905 printing. In the back of my 1902 book there are various appendices and these are enjoyable to get to know. One of our favorites poems listed in the INSPIRATION POEMS section is The Glory of God In Creation by Thomas Moore (link to poem here). We introduce our new year of Nature Study with this poem each year - it's an annual tradition now. There are many other poems here as well that we enjoy.
:: Inspiring Picture Study chapter - I like the Picture Study chapter in my book - there is a yearly listing of artwork to be studied for each grade, 1 - 4. It's a very nice list. There's a lovely study of Corregio's Holy Night in this chapter. It's very CM, and so it's nothing new if you've been doing Picture Study all along, but it is a neat little chapter with some good ideas for artwork.
*************************************************
Anna McGovern believed that nature study was incomplete without literature and literature study incomplete without art. Thus, all of her lessons foster these three working together. I probably find myself a more relaxed "guide" when it comes to Nature Study, and use her lessons and book to springboard ideas. I relish the related literature and poetry selections though! So, in addition to enjoying the seasonal poetry and nature related literature, I mostly mine the chapters for mini-ideas I might use to springboard or further an observation the children have made spontaneously on one of their nature walks.
Favorite spin-off book that I learned of in reading Anna McGovern's book? Poetry of the Seasons by Mary Isabella Lovejoy....but there are still so many I'm hunting down!
Hope this is a help, Theresa!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: June 17 2011 at 12:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
That sounds a lot like how I use the Comstock book, mostly for lit selections and "Mini-ideas" as you described.
btw, My 1905 version has a nifty picture study section in the back as well, only it uses as example The Sower (Millet).
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Is It Worth It?
