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kristacecilia
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I have a soon-to-be seven year old son with some sensory processing issues (we are working on figuring out what, exactly).
I have been trying to introduce narration with him for almost a year now, since just after he turned six. I started out with Aesop's Fables. I would read one fable out loud and ask him what he remembered.
Almost without fail, the answer is "I don't remember." Now, this kid can remember *everything*. He can tell you what day he got a cold two years ago. Day of the week and month. So I thought maybe it was just the book. So we got a book short Bible stories and started out the same way. Still, he keeps responding, "I don't remember."
When he says he can't remember, I usually say something about how it's too bad he doesn't remember because it was a really interesting story. I have asked for his favorite part... I have asked if he can remember any people from the story... I have used prompting, open-ended questions... sometimes they work, but often not.
I have tried using smaller and smaller segments- even one sentence. The problem with this is, he will just recite it back to me rather than narrate it back to me. The kid's mind is like a steel trap, and he wants to tell these things back to me in the exact same words, if at all. It's like he's not making a relationship with the ideas from the story, just memorizing the words.
Is starting out with narration supposed to be like pulling teeth?
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Krista
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Grace&Chaos
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I'm sure you'll get some very good answers from more experienced moms, but I thought I'd link two narration options I found. Maybe make it almost fun like for him. One Jen has mentioned before Penny Gardner's Narration Cube and the other I just printed on card stock paper is Narration Rotation Cards. Something a little different to make the session fun/interesting just to start them off. 
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kristacecilia
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Oh, we do have the narration cube and he does enjoy that. Maybe I will get that out for this. I wasn't sure if that was 'ok' for trying to get them to consistently narrate. It seems more like a game to me. I guess it's better than nothing, right?
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Krista
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Taffy
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One idea would be to see if he needs some help organizing what he wants to say in his head. It may be useful to use a visual organizer to help him figure out what to say. A simple outline format such as:
Tel me about... "The tortoise and the hare"
Main idea?... (The tortoise and the hare had a race)
Details?... (list 3 or 4)
This is just an example. A visual organizer can be as simple or as detailed as you like.
Another idea is to write the main idea of the story you've read down and have a brainstorming session on it. Write down (or say) anything you can think of that relates to it for 1 minute. Then spend a few minutes adding details to some of the items you've come up with. For instance...
The tortoise and the hare.
race
slow tortoise
fast hare
hare loses
tortoise wins
These might be some things brainstormed. Then spend a couple of minutes adding details. Such as the race was long. The hare lost because he got distracted, etc.
Just an idea...
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Mackfam
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I love Jenny and Susan's ideas!!  I especially think they're good because like Susan, I wonder if he needs help organizing his thoughts since you mentioned a sensory processing issue.
Other ideas:
** Consider other formats of narration for him - a puppet show narration is great for breaking the ice! Or maybe ask for him to draw everything he remembers from what you just read. Or, you could take turns - he narrates something he remembers and then you narrate something you remember. These beginning narrations don't have to be long!!
** Perhaps try to approach this a bit more naturally. Select a book that you are certain will be a SURE HIT with him to ease more into narrations if he's having trouble engaging in your invitation. He may just be bewildered in the face of just *how* to do this...how to put all the information together to tell you, and a more natural approach/invitation to narrate will be less intimidating.
Read a little of a book aloud, and then phrase your invitation-to-narrate more like a conversation than a request for narration...so rather than, "tell me what you remember from the story..." you might make an observation of your own and then ask if he noticed the same thing? Did he notice anything different?
** You might even consider modeling a narration to him after you read a few times -- VERY SIMPLE NARRATIONS -- so he sees and hears how to do this.
** I recently found some neat narration *requests* that I think could be helpful for challenged narrators in Karen Andreola's book, Story Starters, which we've recently started using. Here are a few examples of her narration request prompts:
"Tell me all you know about...Tin-Tin's trip to outer space.
Explain how...the young knight escaped the dragon.
Describe the...jobs a firefighter must do.
Describe our...trip to the library...walk to the river, etc.
I think you get the idea - the prompts are Karen's and the examples following are mine. You might check to see if Story Starters is available to preview at your local library. I mention the book because I purchased it for the great story prompts, and they are FANTASTIC and exciting, but the treasure of resources Karen offers on narration in general, and writing as well makes this book very valuable! There are some wonderful encouraging ideas here and it's a non-consumable resource which I'm using with my high schooler on down to my 1st grader! My children LOVE this book, including my 6 yo! The story starters are exciting and end with a sort of "cliff hanger", at which point the child should finish the story. My writers will write an ending, but my 6 yo *tells* the ending to me. I was thinking this might be another way to help your 6 yo begin the art of *telling*.
I think there is plenty of time for his narrating to develop more and refine. Hope there is an idea or two here for you to try!
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JodieLyn
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Could he be feeling self conscious doing narration with you (are siblings around then too?) it might work better to have him do narration with dad in the evening. He could be taken aside so it's more private AND it's special time with dad (be sure dad has questions and knows to praise him lots to start).
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Mackfam
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Mackfam wrote:
| I recently found some neat narration *requests* that I think could be helpful for challenged narrators in Karen Andreola's book, Story Starters, which we've recently started using. |
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Narration: Tapping into the Talking Resource by Karen Andreola
This is Karen's article which comprises one chapter in the book, Story Starters, and is the chapter in which she talks about those *Narration Requests* I talked about above. I though it might be helpful reading.
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kristacecilia
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Thanks, Susan, Jen, and Jodie!
Off to look at all the lovely resources...
I am going to be trying some of these tomorrow.
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Krista
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stellamaris
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My first thought is that perhaps your son is just young. Sometimes boys take a little longer to reach certain educational skill levels than girls. My very bright 8 year old ds really wasn't "into" narration until about 7 1/2 . I didn't push it, but would occasionally discuss his story with him or ask a few questions about it. From time to time, I'd ask him to tell me about it, usually when I was doing a household task like folding the clothes. In this way, he felt he was "entertaining" me and some of the pressure was off...it wasn't a situation where he felt I was assessing him, so much as I was asking him to share something he found interesting. Now at 8 he loves to narrate and has no problems at all (except speaking so fast I have to ask him to slow down  ).
It is also possible that your son has some learning difficulties, especially as you mention he has sensory processing challenges. I have a son who has had great difficult narrating. I don't know if his situation is at all like your son's, but he has motoring planning difficulties, sensory processing issues, and expressive language problems. He has many symptoms of Apsberger's, but not all. He has an incredible vocabulary, a tremendous reading ability, a great memory for events in his life, and a LOT of trouble re-telling and, as you put it, "making a relationship with the ideas in the story." I have worked hard with a special education consultant this year trying to find strategies that help him develop academically. One idea she suggested for developing the ability to narrate was similar to Susan's suggestion.
I have him read (or read to him) a short story. We have been using The Story Tree reader from Seton, because even though it is below his reading level, the stories are short and relatively straight-forward. We started by reading just 2 pages. At the end of that reading, I used a story map (which you can download and use, too...it's actually not supposed to be blue, but oh, well!). First, we discuss the main characters, writing them in the top bubble. Then, I ask him what happened at the beginning of the section. If he "can't remember", we look back together to the first paragraph and try to find a sentence that tells us what happened at the beginning of the section. I write a short summary in the first bubble. Then we repeat that process for the middle and the end. Finally, I ask him to re-tell the section of the story using the story map we filled in as an aide.
I realize this seems a bit different from normal narration. My other boys just retell the story with no trouble, but my son who has learning challenges needs this extra help to organize his thoughts, formulate his words, and understand the idea of sequencing a story. He has improved a lot using this technique, and now we can read an entire 5-6 page story and get a short narration!!!  He is also showing more interest in stories in general. I think this is because he now is beginning to internalize a structure for understanding and organizing the story in his mind.
I will add that we started this process using Aesop's Fables, but I think he had even more trouble relating to the animals in the story than he had relating to people. He is a very "realistic" thinker...loves books about facts and real stories. Also, connecting the ideas to figure out the moral was beyond him. One thing I did try (which helped but not as much as the story map above) was copying and cutting out the pictures of the characters in the story and having him use those to act out the story. This might work with your son if he doesn't know where to start. Sometimes a "prop" can get a child over their initial hesitation.
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ekbell
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When working with ity-bity chunks can he say it in different words?
As well as the very good ideas already given you, I'd consider finding several different versions of the same story (Aesop's Fables, fairy tales, folktales and bible stories are good for this) and spending some time reading the different versions and talking about what's the same and what's different. It's a fun way to ease a child into retelling a story.
[For my children narration is retelling without adding anything to the story.]
or how to make a virtue out of a habit of collecting Bible story books and having a MIL who's given my children multiple books of fairytales
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kristacecilia
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stellamaris wrote:
| I don't know if his situation is at all like your son's, but he has motoring planning difficulties, sensory processing issues, and expressive language problems. He has many symptoms of Apsberger's, but not all. He has an incredible vocabulary, a tremendous reading ability, a great memory for events in his life, and a LOT of trouble re-telling and, as you put it, "making a relationship with the ideas in the story." |
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Yes, this describes my son almost perfectly. I will definitely try the story starters. The more I think about it, the more I think you and Susan are right and that he can't organize his thoughts.
Thank you, ladies! This has been eye-opening.
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Krista
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kristacecilia
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Just wanted to provide a quick update. This morning I asked him to go get his favorite book off his shelf- he picked Great Illustrated Classics Journey to the Center of the Earth. I know he's read it at least once already, but I figure it'd be okay just to get him thinking in terms of narration.
We read a few pages, until I felt like there was enough content but not too much. Then we sat down with the story map page (Thanks, Caroline!) and put down our ideas on paper. This required a LOT of prompting on my part, and I wrote it down for him. As we went through he started taking more initiative, though, and then I told him to think about how he could put it all into one narration and I would type it up for him. This is what we got (with a little more help from Mom):
"Journey to the Center of the Earth is told by Harry, a young man who is living in his uncle’s house in Germany. His uncle is Professor Hardwigg, a geologist, who is a good man but a little mean.
At the beginning of the story, Professor Hardwigg calls Harry to his study and Harry runs upstairs to him. His uncle was reading an old book. The book was about Iceland and the people who lived there. It was written in the twelfth century, and Harry asked what language it was written in.
It was written in Runic, his uncle said. Professor Hardwigg picked up the book to show Harry and a scrap of paper fell out of the book. The paper had more Runic writing on it, but Professor Hardwigg could not read it."
I don't even know... is that roughly how narrations should look?
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Krista
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kristacecilia
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I am updating for more help!
We worked with one of the shorter Burgess novels for kids for a few chapters.... just yesterday I started asking for narrations from his history readings (2 or 3 pages from a picture book on Roman Myths right now).
This is how it goes- if I sit down with him and try to use a story outline to sort of organize his thoughts, he stares at me blankly most of the time until I start feeding him answers. It doesn't matter what openended question I ask, he just stares at me boredly/blankly. I am 99.9% sure it's not because he doesn't understand, but because he just doesn't want to do it.
So we struggle through narrating a short chapter using the story outline page.... I do all the writing and contribute at least half of the material. THen he just reads me back what I have written.
I just don't feel like that's really getting anything out of it... am I wrong?
Yesterday and today I asked him to narrate back the short roman myth from his history reading (without writing first) and I just get the blank stare and the refusal to answer ANY question.
I seriously want to rip out my hair trying to do this with him. I end up so frustrated after being stared at while I try to fish any sort of answer out of him that I get angry and send him away.
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Krista
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Mackfam
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Bless your heart, Krista! 
I can only tell you what I would do, and trust that you know your son best! Trust your instincts!! If this is overwhelming him - stop, pull back, relax, regroup, try again. Be natural. Allow it to be what it is when you begin again...and that could be a VERY short narration. Trust that narrations start small and build with consistent, gentle application...but this takes place over time...over years.
:: I ask for only one narration from my beginning narrators - from a book he enjoys.
:: I read it right before lunch prep (because in my home, my children really enjoy working alongside me to help with lunch and that's a good time to just naturally ask my beginning narrator for a narration --> choose a situation that is relaxed and natural for you and your son to be alongside you...and read before that).
:: I naturally move us into our lunchtime duties with my son by my side for helping, and I begin conversationally while we both work.
:: I keep my expectations very simple and am prepared to be content with any offering/narration and be done.
:: Additionally....I probably wouldn't extend the lesson by organizing any thoughts on paper - I'd just let the narration be simple and short so that your son isn't intimidated or overwhelmed.
:: If he offers nothing when you ask - help him get started with a simple question..."Well who is Mrs. Quack anyway?"...accept what he offers. Done. Build from there.
That's how I would approach it anyway - simple, natural, short, accept what is offered, done.
I wanted to give you a real life example of an early narration. Here is an actual narration from 1 chapter of The Adventures of Mrs. Quack given by my 6yo son from Monday. I began like this:
Quote:
| HEY! I wonder what's going to happen to Mrs. Quack from our story!! Can you tell me what we read today - what do you remember? |
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Quote:
| Peter Rabbit met Mrs. Quack and then there's gun shooting and Mrs. Quack doesn't want to go back to the Big River because of all the shooting. |
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Done! And that's plenty for him! He only narrates that one story for me! We'll build slowly and gently from here.
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kristacecilia
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Jen,
Thanks for your reply! I do think it's overwhelming for him.
I wish he would give me anything, even as simple a narration as your son gave you for Mrs. Quack! I just get blank stares.
I do think that we're not using relaxed enough a setting. I am going to try and do it as you suggested, when we are somewhat occupied with something else enjoyable.
I have tried the light-hearted leading questions like you mentioned, so far we don't get much of a response, although his face gets a little more amused and a little less blank. ;)
I will keep at it. I will! And I will definitely try using a less formal setting to ease him out of his shell.
Thanks so much!
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Krista
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stellamaris
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Krista, if you ds has ASD type issues, this can be a tough one! We have been working and working with my son for several years now, and we are just getting to the point where he can do a very basic narration  .
One thing I have learned is that if he is interested in a topic, his cooperation is much greater. I had to figure out whether he couldn't do the narrations or whether he was stonewalling me because he didn't want to narrate. So, I let him check a Pokemon book out of the library (no rotten tomatoes...I KNOW it's twaddle!!!  ). He enjoyed telling me about the story he read in that book, so I knew he could do it if he was motivated. (This was after we spent a LOT of time working both formally and informally...just orally...on the beginning-middle-end scheme) Now I continue to require him to narrate back his reading selection for the day. I break it up into 1-2 page "chunks" and discuss each chunk with him when he finishes reading it. Sometimes we will use the pictures in his book to go back and review the entire story. His narration is usually very short, and, frankly, as Jenn said, I accept whatever he is able to tell me. I try to build on that by asking for more details or maybe making a comment such as "What happened next?". From time to time, we will work on the chart showing the parts of the story
One thing I have read elsewhere is to have the child narrate back the story the NEXT day. Sometimes when kids have processing problems, they need some time for the info to sort of sink in. I haven't tried this yet, but I just mention it in case it might help you.
As far as the quality of his narration about Professor Hardwig, that is really advanced as far as I'm concerned. My ds could never produce such a great and detailed series of observations.
I want to add here something I hope will help and not offend you. With my oldest child, I really had very high expectations for his school work. I didn't realize how high until I had schooled my other children!! I think the early years of homeschooling might have been easier for me and him if I had been able to be a little less demanding and a lot less worried about his ability to learn. Turns out he is very smart, after all! I hope you can set aside any anxiety you may have and just enjoy your ds. He will learn at his own pace.
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Caroline
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AmandaV
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Would it help you to see other sample 6.5 year olds? My son is giving several paragraph narrations but it took until Jan. or so for us to both get comfortable with it. He would say nothing, or I don't know. History is still hard but his Bible and saint and Aesop's narrations have really improved. (not all in one day, of course)
If it would help, I'll post a recent sample from my son. I know for me, I had to read a bunch and really wasn't sure if what I was getting was what I should get, at first. The posts at Higher up and .. that Jen has previously posted on the language arts forum really helped me to get a hang of it.
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SuzanneG
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Myths and Burgess books are MEATY! I have VERY VERBOSE girls and at 6.5, I would be just beginning to get narrations with them with those books.
Try reading from something he really enjoys. Does he have a favorite subject?
How about picture books? Can you read a picture book and start talking about what you're reading after a few pages?
It sounds like you've really got to "ease into it" with it....make it VERY casual. Just get him used to "chatting" about what he's hearing/reading/exposed to.
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ekbell
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I sympathize with trying to get something from a reluctant child.
One of my children just didn't see the *point* of telling me about what we just read together. We'd just read it and I could remember the story better then she did so why ask her? It wasn't until she was reading material independently that she saw any point in narrating.
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JodieLyn
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Are you modeling what you want to happen in casual speech?
I'm just thinking if you get him used to a topic of conversation is retelling a story line.. then it won't be putting him on the spot so much as he'll be learning that this is a way to converse with you.
And it doesn't have to be a book.. if you watch a movie together.. retell him your favorite part..
But I'm talking about without expecting him to reciprocate yet. Just getting into a habit of conversing.. then when you do ask him, it'll feel like a natural part of the conversation instead of putting him on the spot with more school work.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Resistant Narrator *UPDATED with question
