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Maryan
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So this is just a curiousity question...
I set up the calendar for the school where my dh works (and I used to work). Today as I finishing next year's school calendar, I googled "what are the liturgical dates for 2012," (to set up vacations) and I stumbled across Women for Faith & Family's liturgical calendar. I've visited their website many times, but have never seen their calendar! Anyway, I noticed that they listed days of abstinence on Fridays... including the Easter and Christmas octaves.
I consider the 8 octave days "mini Christmases" and "mini Easters" -- so have interpreted that as no sacrifice on octave Fridays. Following the spirit of the liturgical year, I do think my indulgence is fine -- but I was curious if there is an official Church calendar that lists this as a day of abstinence?
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MicheleQ
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The problem is that offical Church calendars don't mark regular Fridays as days of abstinence anyway.
BUT, the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar says
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| "The first eight days of the Easter season make up the octave of Easter and are celebrated as solemnities of the Lord." |
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so that should tell us that a Friday in the Octave of Easter would NOT be a day of abstinence because it is considered a solemnity. I would also contend that the entire 50 days of Easter contains no Friday abstinence because it also says that
Quote:
| "The fifty days from Easter Sunday to Pentecost are celebrated in joyful exultation as one feast day, or better as one 'great Sunday.'" |
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As for Christmas it says:
Quote:
35. Christmas has its own octave, arranged as follows:
Sunday within the octave is the feast of the Holy Family;
26 December is the feast of Saint Stephen, First Martyr;
27 December is the feast of Saint John, Apostle and Evangelist;
28 December is the feast of the Holy Innocents;
29, 30, and 31 December are days within the octave;
1 January, the octave day of Christmas, is the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God. It also recalls the conferral of the holy Name of Jesus. |
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So again in my mind those days would NOT be days of abstinence.
That's my take. I may be wrong but I have never seen anything official from the Church to state otherwise (and I have looked!) and what the Church does give us seems to indicate that I am correct.
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Angie Mc
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How interesting that I was researching *the same topic* and bumped it the same time this one was being posted!
So...I, too, have considered the entire 50 days of Easter to not contain a Friday abstinence. But what about the entire Christmas season...through the Baptism of the Lord?
Love,
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Maryan
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MicheleQ wrote:
| ]The problem is that offical Church calendars don't mark regular Fridays as days of abstinence anyway. |
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Oh, right.  But, thanks Michele, great references and quotes. I have looked for specifics previously when friends wanted explanations for abstaining on Friday and haven't found anything, and these are better than the quotes that I've found for the not abstaining part.
And ahhh... the line: "one great Sunday." I've never thought about no abstinence through all of Easter, but I have to admit that it does seem funny to abstain on Fridays in Easter. It seems like it should be a completely Alleluia time. We even just say the Glorious myteries all through Easter -- and nothing says Alleluia to me like meat & potatoes... and chocolate dessert. 
AngieMc wrote:
| But what about the entire Christmas season... through the Baptism of the Lord? |
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Angie, I was wondering that tonight (as I served frozen cheese pizza). How's this for a subjective answer with just a smidge of objective thrown in the mix? I don't feel like I sacrifice as much before Christmas (as I do before Easter), so I didn't feel like we merited getting two Fridays off? 
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MicheleQ
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Maryan wrote:
AngieMc wrote:
| But what about the entire Christmas season... through the Baptism of the Lord? |
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Angie, I was wondering that tonight (as I served frozen cheese pizza). How's this for a subjective answer with just a smidge of objective thrown in the mix? I don't feel like I sacrifice as much before Christmas (as I do before Easter), so I didn't feel like we merited getting two Fridays off? |
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Well we had pirogies for dinner but chicken noodle soup for lunch --and chocolate cake! 
But we don't abstain during Christmas either. True that we don't sacrifice as much before Christmas as Easter but Easter has a lot more abstinence free weeks!!
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JodieLyn
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Well my new calender from Catholicextension.org shows this past week as all being "Christmas Weekdays" and White for the color of all the days.. so still part of the feast of Christmas.. yes? 
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Maryan
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MicheleQ wrote:
| But we don't abstain during Christmas either. True that we don't sacrifice as much before Christmas as Easter but Easter has a lot more abstinence free weeks!! |
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 True, true. If we hadn't been bordering on daily gluttony around here, I probably would have thought meat a fitting celebration to close out the last Friday in Christmas. But...after the chocolate and cheesecake that I've consumed, I think I was ready for a little sacrifice.
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Maryan
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Well my new calender from Catholicextension.org shows this past week as all being "Christmas Weekdays" and White for the color of all the days.. so still part of the feast of Christmas.. yes? |
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I think Michele is right that it certainly wouldn't be keeping with the celebration of the season. 
I think it was easier in some sense when abstinence was mandated because it would be announced when it was appropriately lifted. (I know we exempt ourselves the Friday after ever Thanksgiving to get rid of leftovers that we can't keep around for too long -- something the bishops used to announce). But in another sense not announcing has forced me to look longer at what Mother Church wants of me, my heart, and my stomach.
ETA: my quoted part disappeared when I posted so I added back in... inadvertent laptop deletions. 
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Thank you, ladies!
Since the discussion at the topic, Keeping Sundays a Priority, our family has been blessed by becoming more clear about when to celebrate. I'm  to admit that in the past, I have found it difficult to continue celebrating Christmas much past New Year's Day. In a way, it is a conforming of my will to enjoy the blessings of the season to the end .
Love,
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sounds funny.. but it IS hard to celebrate for numerous days.. I know I grew up with all the holidays being "divorced" from the others.. so Christmas was a single day.. but you might also make mention of Boxing Day/St. Stephen's Day.. and then New Year's Eve and Day.
Celebrating for a whole season is rather mind boggling.
And I know I'm no where near close.. but I'm closer than I was.
Some day I might figure out a way to be more consistent overall and the feasts coorespond to the calender and not just because it's when I finally managed to get that roast cooked or something it's slow going but I keep trying
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Well my new calender from Catholicextension.org shows this past week as all being "Christmas Weekdays" and White for the color of all the days.. so still part of the feast of Christmas.. yes? |
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In this case yes but strictly speaking the color wouldn't be an indication of whether Friday abstinence is required. Friday January 28th for example is the memorial of St. Thomas Aquinas in the Ordinary Form and 3rd Class Feast of St. Peter Nolasco in the Extraordinary Form. Both are white vestments (which is what the color indicates) but neither high enough to abrogate the Friday penance.
A Friday Solemnity (OF) or First Class Feast (EF) on the other hand certainly would so it just depends on what's going on.
Of course since Friday penance doesn't have to be the giving up of meat (except during Lent) you could still choose to celebrate food wise and offer something else.
I do wonder if the difficulty in celebrating for so many days is because we are a culture that lives to excess and thus don't live in want anywhere close to what people did years ago? Even just a few generations ago most people didn't have daily access to the variety of foods that we do now.
We do try but I think what takes a real effort nowadays is to go without because it's so easy to have what you want quite regularly.
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As posted at Helen's "Friday Abstinence" topic (linked in my first reply) ...
Helen wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
How/do you observe Friday abstinance during the seasons of Christmas and Easter? |
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That's a good question Angie. We don't change much regarding Friday abstinence during the season of Christmas and Easter unless a Friday is also a solemnity. If a Friday is a solemnity then meat is/can be on the menu.
I might have mentioned this above but if we attend Mass on a Friday and it is difficult to go meat free, we consider the participation in the holy Sacrifice of the Mass as fulfilling our Friday abstinence. |
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Angie Mc wrote:
| When a Friday is within Easter or Christmas season, penance is required unless a solemnity is observed, per Canon 1252. |
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Since our family does abstain from meat on Friday, I'm leaning toward finding another penance during Easter and Christmas, especially since celebrating and food are so interlinked for us!
MicheleQ wrote:
I do wonder if the difficulty in celebrating for so many days is because we are a culture that lives to excess and thus don't live in want anywhere close to what people did years ago? Even just a few generations ago most people didn't have daily access to the variety of foods that we do now.
We do try but I think what takes a real effort nowadays is to go without because it's so easy to have what you want quite regularly. |
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I also wonder if, because our culture has such a swift pace, we move from one thing to another so rapidly that we grow anxious or uncomfortable when asked to rest or celebrate for an extended period of time. I think about the business man who can't relax on vacation...or the hsing mom who finds it hard to shift gears from ordinary times and repentance to rest and celebration .
Love,
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Angie Mc wrote:
As posted at Helen's "Friday Abstinence" topic
MicheleQ wrote:
I do wonder if the difficulty in celebrating for so many days is because we are a culture that lives to excess and thus don't live in want anywhere close to what people did years ago? Even just a few generations ago most people didn't have daily access to the variety of foods that we do now.
We do try but I think what takes a real effort nowadays is to go without because it's so easy to have what you want quite regularly. |
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I also wonder if, because our culture has such a swift pace, we move from one thing to another so rapidly that we grow anxious or uncomfortable when asked to rest or celebrate for an extended period of time. I think about the business man who can't relax on vacation...or the hsing mom who finds it hard to shift gears from ordinary times and repentance to rest and celebration . Love, |
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I think the key is understanding the word "celebrate" through Catholic eyes. On Fridays we abstain from meat, and then the instructions for Sundays and holy days we abstain from other things.
Quote:
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.
Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body. |
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Now that doesn't mean all season or all feast days, but I've been dwelling on ideas related to joyful celebration. I look over my Christmas holidays, filled with quiet family time, enjoying time with others, time for relaxing, contemplating the spiritual aspects of the feast, placing myself before the manger and the scene.
I think of different examples in the Gospel while they had Christ on earth (while the bridegroom is here, no fasting), but much of the time wasn't *busyness* but quiet contemplation. Think of Martha, think of the Transfiguration when Peter wanted to erect the tents.
I think of some of my favorite, most joyful times have been some quiet times "celebrating" -- sitting with my husband holding our newborn baby. A glass of wine and movie with dh. Some others have a little more movement and action and "things", but still it's the enjoyment of being together, sharing the common joy.
I haven't nailed together all my thoughts, but this is what I've been thinking.
Joy doesn't mean party all the time.
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JennGM wrote:
| Joy doesn't mean party all the time. |
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Tell that to my 15yo sanguine !
Jenn, I'll be thinking about your post while doing my pantry and laundry duties today...perfect timing as our family prepares for Sunday!
Love,
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And of course we always have the problem of the rest of the world "going on with business" and we have to keep up and somehow also do our joyful, relaxing, contemplative celebrations
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I've not read all the responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating
Traditionally (and I mean OLD traditionally, and that which the Eastern Rite church still follows) holds to much stricter fasting rules (Wed and Fri throughout the year; every day of Lent/Advent; and what was allowed/not allowed was much stricter too... another post!) - and then the 8 days following both Easter and Christmas NO FASTING or ABSTINENCE IS ALLOWED. Period.
I have to check on the entire Easter season again - but I know for Christmas, fasting begins again on the appropriate Wed/Fri after the 8th day - unless it's Epiphany which has its own fast the evening before....
Lots of history to explore - I love it!
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JennGM wrote:
I think the key is understanding the word "celebrate" through Catholic eyes. On Fridays we abstain from meat, and then the instructions for Sundays and holy days we abstain from other things.
Quote:
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.
Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body. |
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Now that doesn't mean all season or all feast days, but I've been dwelling on ideas related to joyful celebration. I look over my Christmas holidays, filled with quiet family time, enjoying time with others, time for relaxing, contemplating the spiritual aspects of the feast, placing myself before the manger and the scene.
I think of different examples in the Gospel while they had Christ on earth (while the bridegroom is here, no fasting), but much of the time wasn't *busyness* but quiet contemplation. Think of Martha, think of the Transfiguration when Peter wanted to erect the tents.
I think of some of my favorite, most joyful times have been some quiet times "celebrating" -- sitting with my husband holding our newborn baby. A glass of wine and movie with dh. Some others have a little more movement and action and "things", but still it's the enjoyment of being together, sharing the common joy.
I haven't nailed together all my thoughts, but this is what I've been thinking.
Joy doesn't mean party all the time. |
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I agree Jenn , beautifully said!
Personally I would like to get away from the idea that it always has to be food related. Food is important but like I wrote above there's a very big difference in our current culture as to what is available compared to generations before us.
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JennGM wrote:
Joy doesn't mean party all the time. |
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Since living in Germany and learning another language fluently and living the Church year more fully, the difference between "Joy" and "fun" has never been more striking. I have noticed on many occasions that my own sisters don't even know there is a difference between the two and have wondered if that is something american????
...just throwing this out there...
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St. Ann wrote:
JennGM wrote:
Joy doesn't mean party all the time. |
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Since living in Germany and learning another language fluently and living the Church year more fully, the difference between "Joy" and "fun" has never been more striking. I have noticed on many occasions that my own sisters don't even know there is a difference between the two and have wondered if that is something american????
...just throwing this out there... |
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Yes, Stephanie, exactly my point. I do wonder if it is American.
I guess I've been thinking of the definition of "fun". I don't strive for fun in most things. I'm looking for joy in whatever we have before us: crosses, work, and happy events. Happy events mean feast days, too.
And in contemplating the Liturgical year, since it repeats this annual cycle, it's an invitation to go deeper every time. Every year it might look and feel a little different, as we contemplate the mystery, the outside activity might lessen while the spiritual intensifies.
I keep thinking of the Narnia "Come Further Up and Further In." That pretty much sums up the Liturgical Year for me.
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Angie Mc wrote:
| But what about the entire Christmas season...through the Baptism of the Lord? |
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Speaking of, did you see what the Holy Father said on Epiphany?
Quote:
| "The liturgical celebration of Christmas, then, is not only a remembrance but is above all a mystery; it is not only a memory but also a presence. To appreciate the meaning of these two indissoluble aspects, one must live intensely the whole Christmas season as the Church presents it. If we consider it in a broad sense, it extends for 40 days, from Dec. 25 to Feb. 2, from the celebration of Christmas Eve to Mary's Maternity, to the Epiphany, to the Baptism of Jesus, to the wedding of Cana, to the Presentation in the Temple, precisely in analogy with Eastertide, which forms a unity of 50 days, until Pentecost. " |
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I had heard people say this before but I always thought it was in connection with the old calendar, and even then I couldn't find anything that ever stated it officially. Not that the pope's comments make it "official" but it really is a beautiful way to look at it!
The full text (he said a lot more!) can be read here in Italian and on Zenit in English.
JennGM wrote:
And in contemplating the Liturgical year, since it repeats this annual cycle, it's an invitation to go deeper every time. Every year it might look and feel a little different, as we contemplate the mystery, the outside activity might lessen while the spiritual intensifies.
I keep thinking of the Narnia "Come Further Up and Further In." That pretty much sums up the Liturgical Year for me. |
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Yes! And that sounds precisely like what the Holy Father is saying to us! We're not remembering an event, we are living a mystery.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Abstinence during octave?
