Oh, Dearest Mother, Sweetest Virgin of Altagracia, our Patroness. You are our Advocate and to you we recommend our needs. You are our Teacher and like disciples we come to learn from the example of your holy life. You are our Mother, and like children, we come to offer you all of the love of our hearts. Receive, dearest Mother, our offerings and listen attentively to our supplications. Amen.



Active Topics || Favorites || Member List || Search || About Us || Help || Register || Login
Philosophy of Education (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Subject Topic: Philosophy for children Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Eleanor
Forum Pro
Forum Pro
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2007
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 326
Posted: March 12 2010 at 12:40am | IP Logged Quote Eleanor

Has anyone used any of the resources that are available for getting younger elementary-level children involved in philosophical inquiry?

We've recently bought some of Matthew Lipman's "Philosophy for Children" materials. They're recommended by Dr. Peter Redpath, a professor of philosophy who's also the director of Angelicum Academy. (The specific books that Angelicum uses are Elfie, Kio and Gus, and Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery.) I like them a lot so far, and I'm very keen to learn more about this or similar programs. Doing philosophy together with the little folks seems to be a natural fit for our family, and it's given me a lot more optimism about the possibility of combining a Montessori-influenced approach with the content of classical education.    

Here are some interesting links. Keep in mind that the "Philosophy for Children" materials are not Catholic, so they sometimes raise questions for which our faith already provides the answers -- but this shouldn't be an issue with the books I've seen, as long as the teacher or parent who leads the discussion is reasonably well-informed and can fill in the missing parts. It's not much different from dealing with all those other tough questions they come up with every day!

Philosophy for Children (the creators' site)

Philosophy for Children (from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Does Philosophy for Children Belong in Schools at All? (a pro-homeschooling, John Taylor Gatto-ish perspective)

There are some other programs available besides Matthew Lipman's, including one that's based on children's literature (sort of like "Five in a Row" meets Aristotle?). I haven't looked into these much, but would be happy to discuss them as well... even though I'm inclined to cringe at the thought of dissecting poor old Frog and Toad in the way that site recommends.

__________________
Eleanor, mother to six, ages 0 to 11
Back to Top View Eleanor's Profile Search for other posts by Eleanor
 
Willa
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
Posted: March 25 2010 at 5:24pm | IP Logged Quote Willa

Eleanor wrote:
Keep in mind that the "Philosophy for Children" materials are not Catholic, so they sometimes raise questions for which our faith already provides the answers -- but this shouldn't be an issue with the books I've seen, as long as the teacher or parent who leads the discussion is reasonably well-informed and can fill in the missing parts.


Thanks for the links... I like the idea of doing philosophy with children. I've never used any of the books but will be looking them up -- I'm in planning mode : )

I know that sometimes philosophical books discuss questions as if there was no available answer.... and that's what you mean by the "missing parts". It's true though that philosophy is legitimately different from theology -- it tries to start from what we can know "from below", by human reason -- religion illuminates our path but doesn't really give shortcuts for philosophy. So a doctrine believed by faith can still be reasoned about philosophically -- and indeed, as a convert I love that about our Church.

I just thought I'd mention that since it's something that became slightly more clear to me when I read Leisure: The Basis of Culture this winter. It resonated with me and made me understand better how philosophy and theology are complementary even though their territories are somewhat different.

__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
Back to Top View Willa's Profile Search for other posts by Willa
 
Willa
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
Posted: March 25 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged Quote Willa

While we're on the subject, I often wonder why philosophy was traditionally not taught much until students were almost adults.   I can see that rigorous philosophy needs to follow logic and grammar -- but small children are often amateur philosophers. It would seem worthwhile to be able to discuss some questions on some level with them even if they weren't yet ready to read Aristotle

__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
Back to Top View Willa's Profile Search for other posts by Willa
 
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
Posted: April 28 2010 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote CrunchyMom

This seems to be a Charlottemasonesque resource for teaching children philosophy:

Here is a recent NYT article about a charter school that teaches philosophy to children using picture books.

Quote:
Professor Wartenberg and students use eight picture books to introduce children to the major fields of philosophy, including aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, social and political philosophy and philosophy of the mind.


Here is his book Big Ideas for Little Kids: Teaching Philosophy Through Children's Literature

The book seems pricey, but I can see it being a good resource, much like Five in a Row is for some people, in looking at the sorts of books he chooses and the way he introduces the topics so that one can gain the tools for choosing your own books and asking the relevant questions.

__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony

[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
Back to Top View CrunchyMom's Profile Search for other posts by CrunchyMom
 
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
Posted: April 28 2010 at 12:36pm | IP Logged Quote JennGM

Lindsay, you come up with some fascinating reads!

Some parts of the the newspaper article sounded more like a discussion of feelings, almost like Values Clarification...not much of what I thought philosophy was.

It does look good, though. Do you think he limits to only 8 books, or gives suggestions for other ones, too?

__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
Back to Top View JennGM's Profile Search for other posts by JennGM Visit JennGM's Homepage
 
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
Posted: April 28 2010 at 12:39pm | IP Logged Quote JennGM

Adding Teaching Children Philosophy website

ETA: looking it over, he has 84 books he mentions, the philosophical questions and ideas, and it answers most of my questions above.

__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
Back to Top View JennGM's Profile Search for other posts by JennGM Visit JennGM's Homepage
 
Eleanor
Forum Pro
Forum Pro
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2007
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 326
Posted: May 03 2010 at 10:54pm | IP Logged Quote Eleanor

It seems as if Philosophy for Children (P4C) has quite a different approach from "Teaching Children Philosophy."   P4C uses purpose-written short novels, each of which is designed to spark discussion about a particular branch of philosophy. Although the novels might not win any literary awards, they're captivating in their own way.

I appreciate P4C because it introduces philosophical concepts in an orderly and systematic way, so that each topic can be explored in depth, rather than jumping around. For instance, ethics isn't emphasized until middle school (and Angelicum doesn't use those books). The earlier levels are more fundamental. Elfie is about language and thought; Kio & Gus is about the use of our senses to observe nature; and Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery (the title of which, I just learned, is a pun on "Aristotle"... guess I should have figured that out on my own! ) is about logical reasoning.

We now have the materials for Elfie (they were back-ordered, so it took a while), and I'm hoping to get a small group of 5-7 year olds together once a week for discussions. Exciting stuff!

__________________
Eleanor, mother to six, ages 0 to 11
Back to Top View Eleanor's Profile Search for other posts by Eleanor
 
pmeilaen
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Sept 07 2008
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 565
Posted: May 04 2010 at 5:48am | IP Logged Quote pmeilaen

Here is an originally Norwegian book covering the history of philosophy chronologically: Sophie's World. I've read in in German and liked it.

__________________
Eva
Back to Top View pmeilaen's Profile Search for other posts by pmeilaen Visit pmeilaen's Homepage
 
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
Posted: May 04 2010 at 8:22am | IP Logged Quote CrunchyMom

Eleanor wrote:
It seems as if Philosophy for Children (P4C) has quite a different approach from "Teaching Children Philosophy."   P4C uses purpose-written short novels, each of which is designed to spark discussion about a particular branch of philosophy. Although the novels might not win any literary awards, they're captivating in their own way.

I appreciate P4C because it introduces philosophical concepts in an orderly and systematic way, so that each topic can be explored in depth, rather than jumping around. For instance, ethics isn't emphasized until middle school (and Angelicum doesn't use those books). The earlier levels are more fundamental. Elfie is about language and thought; Kio & Gus is about the use of our senses to observe nature; and Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery (the title of which, I just learned, is a pun on "Aristotle"... guess I should have figured that out on my own! ) is about logical reasoning.

We now have the materials for Elfie (they were back-ordered, so it took a while), and I'm hoping to get a small group of 5-7 year olds together once a week for discussions. Exciting stuff!


Thanks, Eleanor!

It looks as if the "Teaching Children Philosophy" could possibly be a good supplement for P4C. If you look at the website JennGM linked, there is an index that organizes by concept and then gives the books related to that topic. So, I suppose that one could still introduce the concepts systematically.


__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony

[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
Back to Top View CrunchyMom's Profile Search for other posts by CrunchyMom
 
hmbress
Forum Pro
Forum Pro


Joined: April 19 2007
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 313
Posted: May 11 2010 at 9:04am | IP Logged Quote hmbress

I found this YouTube BBC documentary on Dr. Lipman's philosophy for children program. Very interesting.

Eleanor - I was able to get the Elfie novel from the university library, but they don't have the teaching guide that goes along with it. Do you have that? I confess that after reading the novel, I'm not really clear on how to use it with my first grader. I assume the manual goes into all of that?

Thanks,

__________________
Heather Rose (ds13, ds10)
Back to Top View hmbress's Profile Search for other posts by hmbress
 
Eleanor
Forum Pro
Forum Pro
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2007
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 326
Posted: May 12 2010 at 5:28pm | IP Logged Quote Eleanor

Yes, I think you'd really need the instructional manual. It's about 400 pages long, and has a LOT of ideas for each section of the book. If you like, I can post a few examples.

The manual is pricey, but we plan to use it with our whole gang and some of our friends' children, so I think it will be worth it in the long run. It looks like the publisher, IAPC at Montclair State University, has the lowest price ($50), but their online shop isn't working yet, so you have to mail in the order form. We'll probably go that route if we decide to get any of the other books. We paid $73 for the manual at the Angelicum online store, which is quite a hefty mark-up, especially given how long it took to arrive.   

The IAPC site says the instructional manual has a spiral binding. I think maybe we got an an older edition, b/c ours just came as a huge stack of 3-hole punched pages.   In any case, the information is all there.   


__________________
Eleanor, mother to six, ages 0 to 11
Back to Top View Eleanor's Profile Search for other posts by Eleanor
 
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
Posted: April 20 2015 at 4:03pm | IP Logged Quote CrunchyMom

I was looking at introducing The Fallacy Detective for logic in the next year or two, and I came across this book, Philosophy for Kids. It gets really good reviews, and it is considerably more affordable than the Dr. Lipman's program.

__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony

[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
Back to Top View CrunchyMom's Profile Search for other posts by CrunchyMom
 
SeaStar
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9066
Posted: April 20 2015 at 6:50pm | IP Logged Quote SeaStar

Looks really good. This would be a fun thing to do during our morning basket time

__________________
Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)


SQUILT Music Appreciation
Back to Top View SeaStar's Profile Search for other posts by SeaStar
 
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
Posted: April 20 2015 at 7:33pm | IP Logged Quote CrunchyMom

SeaStar wrote:
Looks really good. This would be a fun thing to do during our morning basket time


I agree, Melinda. That was what I was thinking.

__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony

[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
Back to Top View CrunchyMom's Profile Search for other posts by CrunchyMom
 
SallyT
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Aug 08 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2489
Posted: June 12 2015 at 10:56am | IP Logged Quote SallyT

Fallacy Detective is fun! We have two copies, and I can't find either of them at present, but keep inserting, then deleting them, from our reading for next year. Can't decide whether that's one book too many or not . . . but it is a great read for middle school (or maybe younger?).

Sally

__________________
Castle in the Sea
Abandon Hopefully
Back to Top View SallyT's Profile Search for other posts by SallyT Visit SallyT's Homepage
 

Sorry, you cannot post a reply to this topic.
This forum has been locked by a forum administrator.

  [Add this topic to My Favorites] Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Hosting and Support provided by theNetSmith.com