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stellamaris
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Here's our chance to get deep into our clutter! KJP discusses "Soul Fever" in Ch. 2, encouraging parents to trust their instincts when it comes to identifying the needs of the own children. Does our culture support or undermine parents in trusting their instincts? Do you feel confident in trusting your instincts? How can we graciously respond when other well-meaning people question our decisions for our children? What about if they are not so well-meaning? How can we develop appropriate confidence as parents (not overly prideful or stubborn, but reasonably comfortable in our choices)? There's a lot to discuss here.
In Ch 3., KJP discusses the importance of environment in reducing stress in our lives and in the lives of our children. I especially like this quote:
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| If you give a child less and less complexity, they become more interested, and this cultivates true powers of attention. |
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He makes specific suggestions about cutting down on toys and (gasp!) books  I'm on-board with the toy discarding, but I don't know about the books. We could discuss our specific needs as homeschooling families to maintain adequate libraries...or do we need to maintain libraries at all? Do we need so many "educational products"? Would less be more in this case? What specific areas of clutter are hardest for us? Any great ideas for getting rid of stuff?
There's a lot to discuss in these two chapters, so once again I would like to ask everyone to try and keep their posts close to the topics suggested by the book. I think that will help us have a very interesting and useful discussion. Looking forward to your comments 
tags: simplicity parenting, environment, clutter, confidence, stuff, books, toys
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Barbara C.
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Well, I think society definitely underminds parental instincts. The medical establishment is probably the worst with AAP guidelines against co-sleeping, the vaccination scheduling, and no cold medicine for children under four. So many AAP policies treat every parent like they haven't got more than two brain cells.
As for decluttering the environment...he was really right in his understanding of why people go there first. It's so much more tangible...you can immediately see a difference.
I am already brainstorming things to cut: more toys (some in trash, some in storage), books (some in trash, some in storage), papers (filing, trashing, or scanning).
The books thing isn't a huge problem for me. I don't normally buy books anymore, especially if I have not read them first. The only ones I buy are ones that I know that I will be going to regularly as a reference or that are hard/impossible to get from the library....But it helps that I live somewhere with a wonderful library (literally on three minutes away) and ILL system. But I stopped keeping literary classics that weren't my favorites "just in case" the kids need them.
"Just In Case" is probably the biggest problem for a lot of families. With just having Christmas, though, I realized that most of these things that I hold onto for "Just in Case" (like some toys and outgrown clothes) would be great things I could ask family to replace as birthday/Christmas presents if they really became necessary down the road.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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stellamaris
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Quote:
| So many AAP policies treat every parent like they haven't got more than two brain cells. |
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Yes, it seems as if we rely more and more on the "experts" and less and less on common sense. There are many great reasons to seek expert advice, but I do think our reliance on it in general tends to undermine our own confidence and sense of self-sufficiency. Also, many so-called experts have particular ideological axes to grind that influence their recommendations.
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| "Just In Case" is probably the biggest problem for a lot of families |
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So true here! How many books am I keeping "just in case"? It used to be "just in case the kids would need (or like) it" and now it is "just in case the grandkids" would like it! Same thing with toys; there is a kind of fear of getting rid of too many toys, because WHAT WILL WE DO THEN????
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
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SeaStar
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The decluttering of books is an area that I would really like to explore- hoping to hear how other moms approach this.
Over the weekend I did an experiment.... I have a bookcase that is divided into four shelves, 2 top and 2 bottom. I cleared out one shelf completely (top right ), then I worked from the other shelves and went through all the books.
Books that we LOVE, that make me smile just to see them, that we've read a bazilion times and the kids always ask for, over and over, went on that top right shelf.
Then I made a pile for "minor players"- books that we like but are not favorites.
Then the discard pile: books disliked by my dc for reasons only they know, books that were gifts and that just aren't a good fit for us, duplicate copies, books we have outgrown, etc.
I was shocked, shocked that my " all time favorites" shelf was only half full when I had gone through all 4 shelves. I was then faced with a very large mountain of books that are just OK and really don't mean a whole lot to us. How did I get to that point? I think it was simply this: reading the same 20 books over and over for 7 years would have driven us all bananas. Having a large pool to pull from lets the favorites become just that- favorites (vs: this is all we have).
So, I don't think having a lot of books is a bad thing, though I do think think I have crossed over the line to having too many just because- or just in case, as mentioned earlier.
Maybe my job- or goal- from reading this book is to establish new criteria for how much is enough/healthy.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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stellamaris
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At least you have some sense of discrimination, Melinda! I have tons of books I have collected over the years, and I them all! Every one is a favorite! I can't imagine parting with them....I am definitely not detached from these books...oh, dear! Many of them we have used already with the younger set here, and I know there will be no more children...but I definitely have a co-dependent relationship with them (although, I don't think the books are too dependent on me  ). I keep thinking, "I'll give them to the library", but then when I actually hold them in my hands, I just can't do it! Maybe they represent all those years of reading to my sweeties who are now grown?
It's really very selfish of me. I can get rid of my children's toys quite easily, but when it comes to the books, I'm stumped! 
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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LeeAnn
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I know that one reason we have so many children's books is because *I* like them. I love the illustrations, the storytelling. I could be a writer/illustrator myself if I put my mind to it--it's always been an interest of mine. Having children just gave me an excuse to indulge in buying some fabulous books. :)
I have gone through periods in my life where I felt like I needed to be the family archivist (hanging on to every family photo and momento) and then the family librarian (just in case of...apocalypse? some other dreaded turn of events which make good Catholic friendly books unavailable?) which I think has stemmed from fear of some kind. Or perhaps anxiety is the better word.
Anxious that if I don't buy it now, I will kick myself later, my child will have missed out on some profound spiritual turning point given him by THAT book, or it will go out of print, etc. So I accumulate books even in advance of the age level of my child(ren). To some extent, this might be perfectly reasonable, but not at the quantity that I've done it.
As much as I love family heritage and traditions, I am not saving the bulk of my children's thing to pass onto future grandchildren. I have realized that someone else can make use of them now and they are only THINGS.
My children probably only read 25% of the books we have regularly and dip into another 50% occasionally and the other 25% is never read or read once and never again. I could easily reduce our collection and I proably will. Also I am thinking of putting doors back on our bookshelves to hide the visual clutter of the books.
Right now my 6yo just loves it that I have picked a selection of about a dozen books for her to keep by her bedside in a Clementine cardboard crate. I did this when she was sick with swine flu back in November, choosing out winter-themed books, then changing it to Christmas books and now more winter and turn-of-the-year books. I can imagine limiting this to one or two at a time, but they would likely be changed every week or two.
Last year "my" word became TRUST, in part because I realized I didn't need to hoard for the future, I needed to trust God more to take care of me. Rather than stockign up against some nebulous future "need" I only needed to worry about right NOW, today. While that might seem like a big ol' tangent, it really does apply to our book collection and all the other things we buy for our children, their clothes (how many to save, to stock in advance?), their toys, their educational materials, etc.
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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SeaStar
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I think it is interesting that in small quantities something like books become a treat, but in mass quantities on the shelves they are often ignored.
I always joke with my dh that if I need to keep my dd busy for an hour, all I have to do is fill a basket with books and put it in the middle of the floor. She will just sit there and look at every single one.
OTOH, dealing with too much stuff (not just books, either) gives *me* soul fever. I am really getting a kick out of taking KJP's ideas and applying them to myself as well. I sometimes wonder if the clutter and hectic days affect me more than them... and if they are stressed is it mostly in reaction to dealing with a tired and frazzled mother? 
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Nina Murphy
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LeeAnn wrote:
I know that one reason we have so many children's books is because *I* like them. I love the illustrations, the storytelling. I could be a writer/illustrator myself if I put my mind to it--it's always been an interest of mine. Having children just gave me an excuse to indulge in buying some fabulous books. :)
I have gone through periods in my life where I felt like I needed to be the family archivist (hanging on to every family photo and momento) and then the family librarian (just in case of...apocalypse? some other dreaded turn of events which make good Catholic friendly books unavailable?) which I think has stemmed from fear of some kind. Or perhaps anxiety is the better word.
Anxious that if I don't buy it now, I will kick myself later, my child will have missed out on some profound spiritual turning point given him by THAT book, or it will go out of print, etc. So I accumulate books even in advance of the age level of my child(ren). To some extent, this might be perfectly reasonable, but not at the quantity that I've done it.
As much as I love family heritage and traditions, I am not saving the bulk of my children's thing to pass onto future grandchildren. I have realized that someone else can make use of them now and they are only THINGS.
My children probably only read 25% of the books we have regularly and dip into another 50% occasionally and the other 25% is never read or read once and never again. I could easily reduce our collection and I proably will. Also I am thinking of putting doors back on our bookshelves to hide the visual clutter of the books.
Right now my 6yo just loves it that I have picked a selection of about a dozen books for her to keep by her bedside in a Clementine cardboard crate. I did this when she was sick with swine flu back in November, choosing out winter-themed books, then changing it to Christmas books and now more winter and turn-of-the-year books. I can imagine limiting this to one or two at a time, but they would likely be changed every week or two.
Last year "my" word became TRUST, in part because I realized I didn't need to hoard for the future, I needed to trust God more to take care of me. Rather than stockign up against some nebulous future "need" I only needed to worry about right NOW, today. While that might seem like a big ol' tangent, it really does apply to our book collection and all the other things we buy for our children, their clothes (how many to save, to stock in advance?), their toys, their educational materials, etc.
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This is so exactly me.
I finally decided that I would not give away the books that aren't beloved by the children (but by me for some reason---often just the illustrations) but (for now) PULL all of the books that are really "for me" and not requested by the children off of the main shelves and keep them in a special shelf by my bed, in MY room, as MY books.
It declutters the main shelves, it sends a message about what I value and consider special (because conversations come up over why I have chosen a particular book), and it makes accessible those books for snuggle times when a child may be more "open".
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Willa
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SeaStar wrote:
| that my " all time favorites" shelf was only half full when I had gone through all 4 shelves. I was then faced with a very large mountain of books that are just OK and really don't mean a whole lot to us. How did I get to that point? |
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That's a good experiment! I think I will use that as an organizing principle when I go through my books. Looking around, though I love my books, I see that they -- the whole bulk of them -- are the One Big Thing that causes our house to look visually cluttered.
I was struck by how the author said that too many books causes a feeling of confusion rather than love, especially for children.
When we moved here 13 years ago, we got rid of about a third of our books. Even so, when the movers actually moved us, they had to DOUBLE their weight estimate. They had made the normal estimate based on our small 2-bedroom, 1000 square foot house -- and not sufficiently noticed the books on the shelves, under the beds, in the kitchen cabinets ....
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Willa
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SeaStar
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Here is one question that arose for me from Chapter 3:
How do you control *incoming* clutter?
I love the idea of not holding on to things "just in case", but instead asking for needed items at birthdays/Christmas. The only problem here is... we are never asked (or rarely) what it is that the kids want or need. Instead, the packages just show up... full of things we already have or don't want or need.
For example, today I found out the in-laws had signed us up for a magazine subscription.... to a magazine we already get and have really outgrown, anyway. It was very thoughtful of them, but they did not ask first if it was something we need or already have.
I can't think of any good way at all to put out a birthday/Christmas list without seeming ungrateful. And the few times someone has asked what to get, they don't like my suggestions (ex. play silks.... "I can't just give them a square of material...).
So in comes a bunch o' stuff. *SIGH*.
I feel like I can't stop it from oozing in all the doors and windows...
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Marcia
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okay so let's just go ahead and say the majority of us are book obsessed. I fully admit I am.
As far as other things go. I really want to pare down.
I loved the idea that we need to give our children a chance to get over their emotional fevers. I find that if I try to get to the bottom of an emotional fever on my schedule it blows into a full sickness! I am learning to let them share their emotions on their own time schedule (thus meaning my 8 and 10 year olds).
I currently have some kids running physical fevers...so I am trying to compare this to how to handle emotional fevers in the future.
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Marcia
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JSchaaf
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Books. I found KJP's suggestion to pare down books shocking. I first read the book before Christmas and have been doing alot of thinking since then. We have SO MANY books. I always wanted my kids to be able to find something on our shelves that they needed or were interested in. Well, we are at the library so much that most of our chapter books just sit on the shelves. We are also moving this summer, a military move, so we have to be within weight restrictions. So, I've decided to purge our book collection (GASP!) A book will go if the following criteria are met:
The book is still in print
The book is in circulation at our library
The book is available used on Amazon.com at a good price.
I figure if I really need a book again, I'll be able to find it. Today 120 books went to the local thrift store. It is very invigorating to see space on the shelves!
Jennifer
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Pamin OZ
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I found the book thing shocking, too. I couldn't bring myself to take that many books away from my little ones but I did cut the number by at least a half and pack the rest away out of sight.
And you know what? I think he's right. Now they can actually get into the book box they pick the same ones over and over. So I'm culling more.
As for Chapter Two, I found it a very good reminder to be gentle with my children when they are being annoying. Now to put it into practise!
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Pamin OZ
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SeaStar wrote:
I was shocked, shocked that my " all time favorites" shelf was only half full when I had gone through all 4 shelves. I was then faced with a very large mountain of books that are just OK and really don't mean a whole lot to us. How did I get to that point? I think it was simply this: reading the same 20 books over and over for 7 years would have driven us all bananas. Having a large pool to pull from lets the favorites become just that- favorites (vs: this is all we have). |
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You know, that's what I thought. But now that we have got rid of a lot of the OK books, I'm not getting sicker of the really good ones. I think I dreaded some books so much but felt I had to keep them. Whereas now we have the ones we all like to read (I'm talking picture books here) we all seem happier.
I know just before Christmas I was soooo bored with all the books we had, I bought more for presents (and all but one turned out to be ok.) But less really is turning out to be more.
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Pam in Sydney
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Pamin OZ
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stellamaris wrote:
I keep thinking, "I'll give them to the library", but then when I actually hold them in my hands, I just can't do it! Maybe they represent all those years of reading to my sweeties who are now grown?
It's really very selfish of me. I can get rid of my children's toys quite easily, but when it comes to the books, I'm stumped! |
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Oh, I think you should keep them! Oops, I'm not helping am I? But, truly, they aren't hurting anyone are they? Could you pack them away for the grandkids if you don't think they should be out? I can just see you enjoying reading to your grandkids in the future- loving the books all over again.
And he is talking about scaling back for the children's sake. If these books aren't a burden for your children you could maybe (whispering) keep them?
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SeaStar
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Pamin OZ wrote:
I found the book thing shocking, too. I couldn't bring myself to take that many books away from my little ones but I did cut the number by at least a half and pack the rest away out of sight.
And you know what? I think he's right. Now they can actually get into the book box they pick the same ones over and over. So I'm culling more. |
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That is so funny- I think maybe we were all shocked at first and then warmed up to the idea. The first couple of times I went through the shelves I found it very painful and hard to pull much off.
Then it got easier over time. What I found was that a lot of our good books (including favorites) were lost in the overstuffed shelves. So we weren't reading them as often- and that seemed very sad to me. My kids love "Mike Mulligan", but one day ds asked for it, and I had to search and search before I could find our copy. That was painful- and led to my book experiment of rounding up the favorite ones.
But I do keep a small horde of books that I am never giving away -
hoping to keeping them for grandchildren. ]
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Barbara C.
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For those of you who keep things for grandchildren...are you keeping that stuff for your house or for their house?
I have never been much of a hoarder (although there still seems to be lots of clutter to go around). When I was a young teen I bagged up all my Cabbage Patch Kids and Care Bears to go to charity. My much older sister could not stand the thought of them being given away, though, and held on to them...and then gave them to my kids. I won't even get started on all the stuff my dad has held on to that I tried to get rid of, but that he now insists on bringing up to me. (Actually, my mom brings it so that I can get rid of it quietly because my dad won't let her.) I'm not going to say there haven't been a few jewels, but there is never been anything that I couldn't lived without.
I figure that I have enough on my plate dealing with the kids I have now to start worrying about hypothetical grandchildren. And if/when I do have grandchildren, I can prepare for them then.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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Barbara C.
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I realize, too, that I am fortunate that my family asks for suggestions. We live out of state and are well aware that they have no clue what the kids need, want, or already have.
Is there anyway to approach family members and explain that you're trying to downsize and ask if they would be willing to take suggestions?I usually make a list with several options for each child or group presents, so the people don't feel like they have no control.
I did have one "aunt" complain last year about giving art supplies when she wanted to give baby dolls (tons and tons of baby dolls), so I wrote her a thank you letter explaining how much the kids enjoy the supplies, how the supplies help them learn, and how the supplies help us as a homeschooling family on a limited budget. And of course, when the kids do projects like home-made valentines I make sure she gets one. This year she gave the girls a big box of computer paper as one of their birthday presents (woohoo!)
[Of course, one of our issues is paper clutter, even though most of their creations go in the recycle bin. I need to do a better job of organizing the ones that do not.]
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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stellamaris
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I did suggest to my mother that she buy one learning present for our three close-in-age boys. I have also, a various time, asked both my parents and my in-laws to please only send one gift per child (I told them with eight children, we would have to move out of the house if they each got several gifts!). It's touchy, because you sure don't want them to think their gifts are not appreciated.
Barbara, you make a good point about holding onto things for the grandchildren. When I think of all the stuff in my parent's house that we will some day have to sort through and decide whether to keep or not, I am beginning to feel that the greatest gift I can leave my children is NOTHING! I don't want to clutter up their lives with my stuff! Wow, when I think of it that way, it puts a different spin on it!
To get back to SP, I am having some trouble imagining taking all my children's toys, books, and games and making a single pile with them. We could do it here in DE because we have a small house with hardly anything in it (still too much, though), but I can't imagine doing it in VA where our house is large, is filled with 20 years worth of hsing stuff, and has books, games, toys, and craft supplies in every corner. The idea is too overwhelming...
Has anyone got any inspiration on breaking the weeding out process down into smaller steps? I think maybe piling it in one place has a lot of impact, and it is easier to get rid of a lot of things if you can see that you still have a lot of things left, but  !
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
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LeeAnn
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My favorite way to clean out clutter is to make a really big mess!
I really do pull everything out of the room that I can physically manage, then vacuum and dust and do whatever needs doing to the walls, furniture, closet, etc.
Once everything is out and looking sad and pathetic and
cluttery in one big pile it's a lot easier to be detached from all that stuff. It's when it's cute and nicely arranged that you want to hold on to ALL of it.
If we had a one-story house I would drag it outside on a tarp (like on that show "Clean Sweep") or maybe into the garage since we are in Rain Country. :)
But our bedrooms are upstairs so I have to make do with filling up the hall with all that stuff and making it impossible for anyone to get to bed (because they can't get to their bedrooms) until the piles start shrinking.
I usually have a bag or box for donations, trash, things that belong somewhere else, and one for things that are going back into the room. This last time I used a big laundry hamper. I sometimes also have recycled gift bags going marked with friends' names when I find something that I know should go to a particular person.
Right now I am trying to make an office for myself in the kitchen. I come across things that should go to my "office" and put them in a box in that area to sort as I have time while working on other things. But it's important to do the labor of moving it all to one place at the beginning so you have an easier time of seeing what you are trying to fit in that space.
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Simp. Parent. Ch 2 & 3: the environment
