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teachingmyown wrote:
| I think that your vision could, in fact, be being open to God's will, making room for His grace, and so on. |
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Well said.
I like that perspective.
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Tracey
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MNMommy
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When you think about clutter, does anyone think they have too much clutter in their heads? Are things constantly zooming around in there - when to start dinner, check dd's diaper, how to teach the 5yo to read, need to call the in-laws, check the propane meter, think of something nice to do for dh today, etc. Does your mind ever stop? I write everything down, but it doesn't stop my mind from being in overdrive.
How do you control your mind clutter? How do you stop and put yourself - your whole self - in the moment?
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Jennifer
Tired mom to - 10yo dd, 7yo ds, 6yo ds, 4yo dd, 2yo ds
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SeaStar
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MNMommy wrote:
When you think about clutter, does anyone think they have too much clutter in their heads? Are things constantly zooming around in there - when to start dinner, check dd's diaper, how to teach the 5yo to read, need to call the in-laws, check the propane meter, think of something nice to do for dh today, etc. Does your mind ever stop? I write everything down, but it doesn't stop my mind from being in overdrive.
How do you control your mind clutter? How do you stop and put yourself - your whole self - in the moment? |
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Ah, yes... mind clutter. Moms just do have a lot to keep track of all day, every day. (don't you ever feel like you could use a wife of your own?  ) You have to do a lot and be a lot for a lot of people.
On top of that, I tend to be a worrier, so I cram all the "what if?" clutter into my head along with everything else  . I can go from hearing the dog cough once to (in my mind) x-rays at the vet, infection, medications,
etc, etc... and then, sure enough, I have the dog dead and buried in the five seconds it takes me to pour a glass of milk for ds for lunch.
Not good
There is a quote from Mark Twain that I like to remember at times like that- it goes something like: "I've had a lot of trouble in my life, and some of it actually happened".
And then I like to watch the kids and the animals... they are SO in the moment. They are just focusing on what they are doing. right. now.
Seeing how "present" they are always brings me up short and reminds me that *I* can also
choose to be right in the moment as well. I can take all the clutter to Jesus, leave it with him (I picture dumping it all down at the foot of the cross) and then asking for his peace in return. That's on good days. On bad days I have the mental image of myself trying to hand over my "baggage" to Jesus but not fully letting go, so there we are playing tug of war with a suitcase. ACK.
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SeaStar
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SusanMc wrote:
Jumping in here. I think the author is careful throughout the book to make the distinction between eliminating toxic overload in the child's environment and creating an artificially happy/happy rainbow world. I LIKE the fact that he emphasizes that this balance is for each family to decide--the key is making a conscious decision and not just letting things happen as they may.
On my page 10 (I'm reading an e-book) he says of the original child: "His parents brought a new sense of awareness to their parenting, and that continued to serve them. It became the new measure of what did or didn't make sense in their lives." |
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That has struck me as well. In several places he mentions that there have to be lows in order to appreciate the highs, and that an ordinary day can be and truly is a wonderful thing. The idea of just giving your child "one rainbow moment after another" is actually damaging to them long term, because it robs them of their ability to generate ideas themselves (he goes into great depth about this in a later chapter).
But I think you really can protect childhood even if you have your children "working" at home. I think for many kids "work" as we think of it is something that excites them and makes them feel good about themselves, especially younger kids. If my ds had his own lawn mower and could just mow all day, he would be thrilled.
Is a teenager going to feel proud of cleaning the bathrooms? Probably not- but then even they need to be protected from too much overscheduling/too many hectic days with no down time.
I got the feeling from his book that the free time needed to relax/play is one of the big areas that needs to be guarded.
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CatholicMommy
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MNMommy wrote:
When you think about clutter, does anyone think they have too much clutter in their heads? Are things constantly zooming around in there - when to start dinner, check dd's diaper, how to teach the 5yo to read, need to call the in-laws, check the propane meter, think of something nice to do for dh today, etc. Does your mind ever stop? I write everything down, but it doesn't stop my mind from being in overdrive.
How do you control your mind clutter? How do you stop and put yourself - your whole self - in the moment? |
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My method of eliminating "mind clutter" is to have and use my homekeeping notebook. When I was working full time this past year, I relied much heavier on my planner because we just weren't home as much as we should have been; but now I'm back to having a strong home-base and it feels SO much better!
Once I have things down on paper and I have a routine such that I KNOW I will get to all of the cleaning, schooling, material-preparations, etc. I still have to push myself to just enjoy the moment, but it is at least do-able. 
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Willa
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SeaStar wrote:
And then I like to watch the kids and the animals... they are SO in the moment. They are just focusing on what they are doing. right. now.
Seeing how "present" they are always brings me up short and reminds me that *I* can also
choose to be right in the moment as well. |
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KJP mentions this too -- how kids are so present in the moment. He calls it "Zen-like" -- but it reminded me of what Jesus said about becoming like children to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus also says:
Quote:
| Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap.... |
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It seems to me that he is talking about our grown-up tendency not only to get caught up in "things" but also in our cares and anxieties, and this reminded me of what KJP said about how even "good" information and stuff can add up to TOO MUCH.
Pierre Caussade says:
Quote:
"We cannot become truly good in a better, more marvelous, and yet easier way than by the simple use of the means offered us by God: the ready acceptance of all that comes to us at each moment of our lives. ....The whole essence of the spiritual life consists in recognizing the designs of God for us in the present moment."
O, all you who thirst, learn that you have not far to go to find the fountain of living waters; it flows quite close to you in the present moment; therefore hasten to find it. ...Had the Saints of the first ages any other secret than that of becoming from moment to moment whatever the divine power willed to make them? And will this power cease to pour forth its glory on the souls which abandon themselves to it without reserve.
The present moment is the ambassador of God to declare His mandates. The heart listens and pronounces its fiat. Thus the soul advances by all these things and flows out from its centre to its goal. It never stops but sails with every wind. Any and every direction leads equally to the shore of infinity. Everything is a help to it, and is, without exception, an instrument of sanctity. The one thing necessary can always be found for it in the present moment. |
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Willa
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Willa
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I was just thinking that the "four pillars of too much" reminded me a bit of Aquinas's categories of gluttony:
Quote:
* Praepropere too soon
* Laute too expensively
* Nimis too much
* Ardenter too eagerly
* Studiose too daintily
* Forente too fervently
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It seems you could apply the same categories to some of the other things we or our kids get attached to -- the "four pillars" of too much too much stuff, too many choices, too much information, and too fast.
Wanting more expensive, more in quantity, more dainty (maybe name brands or cool accessories), or too soon (going into debt or over-extending to pay, maybe, or the begging phenomena in kids?)
I noticed what Tracey noticed -- that the Introduction in particular was not really very deep or spiritual in orientation, but I do think a lot of the things in the intro and first chapter have resonance with Catholic ideas.
I found the excerpted introduction to the book
online in PDF in case someone doesn't have their copy yet and would like to follow along.
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Willa
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LeeAnn
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For those that were unhappy with KJP's direction to get back to the "original vision" of what you wanted your family life to be like--I think we have to remember here his primary audience, which must be Waldorf parents and generally more affluent/educated parents who have had fewer children later in life. Most of his readers will have only had children after plenty of time given to coming up with concrete ideas on "how it all will work." So I think it's better to adapt this envisioning process to something more like imagining what your family's life would be like if you were all in perfect harmony with God's will...or in process toward that goal.
Probably most of us have practical goals that complement this: we want our households to be clean, orderly and calm, etc. and the ideas in SP about simplification are probably going to help most in this practical arena. Questions of how to get to the higher spiritual goals of family life are not KJP's concern, I think. Most secular/Waldorf families would only be looking to achieve the practical goals as their highest goals. Does that make sense???
Willa, I like the list from Aquinas. Interesting similarities!
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stellamaris
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Quote:
Questions of how to get to the higher spiritual goals of family life are not KJP's concern, I think. Most secular/Waldorf families would only be looking to achieve the practical goals as their highest goals. Does that make sense???
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Very good point, LeeAnn. The spiritual aspect of our vision must spring from our Faith; this is why I really appreciated Willa's quote from Caussade, as well as the "pillars to too much" from Aquinas. I know that I, for one, was raised in a very consumption-oriented culture and I really had NO idea about the value of such holy virtues as self-denial or such time-honored practices as asceticism (I even had to google just now to make sure I spelled it correctly ). I don't want my vision to be just about making everything "easier" or "less cluttered", but about transforming myself and my family by practicing in everyday ways these virtues. I can see that, for myself, "melt downs" happen when I do not do my duty in a timely fashion....when I indulge myself rather than follow, as Willa quoted in the Caussade passage, "the designs of God for us in the present moment." Even moments of family play require
some self-discipline; how often I am faced with a choice such as more housework or taking the children for a walk? I don't always "deny" myself the housework, because I want to take pride in my house! So it's not always about doing the hard thing, or about doing "work", but attaining to the "Will of God", which is the perfect balance of contemplation, joy, labor, and suffering.
My balance, however, has been thrown off by a hyper-consuming, materialistic, ambitious culture that crowds out the best for the merely good (and not always even that). I understand simplicity to be a means of creating the physical, mental, and emotional space to restore that balance.
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Caroline
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SeaStar
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Doing duty in a timely fashion...
not indulging myself...
I do think there is much merit in these ideas. I am not a schedule person at all, but I can see how a schedule would fit in with the idea of timeliness, and also with the idea of denying self. Also- it could bring balance.
If everyone knows that Monday mornings the bathrooms are cleaned, then there is accepted time put aside for that. The children will not be expecting to go for a walk then, and if I honor this time then I am putting the needs of house and family ahead of my own whims. I am living in the present moment of *just cleaning the bathrooms already*.
I think the too much/too soon/too fast track really clouds how these basic routines can bring much order and peace to our days.
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DominaCaeli
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Willa wrote:
| I was just thinking that the "four pillars of too much" reminded me a bit of Aquinas's categories of gluttony...It seems you could apply the same categories to some of the other things we or our kids get attached to -- the "four pillars" of too much too much stuff, too many choices, too much information, and too fast. |
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Thank you for bringing in St. Thomas Aquinas--really, an excellent connection. I think this really resonates with KJP's statement that the problems lie in extremes when it comes to children's behavior and mental state. It is easy to follow into the trap of "too much," especially as it relates to "good" things. I also appreciate the quotes you provided about living in the present moment.
LeeAnn wrote:
| For those that were unhappy with KJP's direction to get back to the "original vision" of what you wanted your family life to be like--I think we have to remember here his primary audience, which must be Waldorf parents and generally more affluent/educated parents who have had fewer children later in life. Most of his readers will have only had children after plenty of time given to coming up with concrete ideas on "how it all will work." |
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Yes, LeeAnn, I was thinking the same thing about his audience. The vision my husband and I entered our marriage with has changed significantly (we were converted to the concept of having a large family and of homeschooling after marrying), and that is certainly for the best. The type of mother I imagined myself being and my priorities for our family life have changed as well. But I do this it is useful to work toward a positive vision of your home life rather than only looking at what has gone wrong and trying to cut those things out.
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DominaCaeli
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SeaStar wrote:
Ah, yes... mind clutter. Moms just do have a lot to keep track of all day, every day. (don't you ever feel like you could use a wife of your own? ) You have to do a lot and be a lot for a lot of people.
On top of that, I tend to be a worrier, so I cram all the "what if?" clutter into my head along with everything else . I can go from hearing the dog cough once to (in my mind) x-rays at the vet, infection, medications, etc, etc... and then, sure enough, I have the dog dead and buried in the five seconds it takes me to pour a glass of milk for ds for lunch. |
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I can totally relate. 
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Celeste
Joyous Lessons
Mommy to six: three boys (8, 4, newborn) and four girls (7, 5, 2, and 1)
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Gloria JMJ
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Thank you, Willa, for the link!
Allright, off to *say our decade already!*
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Willa
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I'm glad you all liked the Thomas Aquinas gluttony idea. I was thinking that maybe it would clutter the discussion too much  -- but I was struck by how it applied to what KJP was saying.
I wanted to bring up what Aquinas says are the "daughters" or results of gluttony -- not all of it applies totally, but it does remind me of what KJP talked about as the results of TOO MUCH. KJP talked about kids going from function to dysfunction under stress, and some of the symptoms he described reminded me of Aquinas's list of the results of gluttony.
Aquinas talks about the results of gluttony as being:
--A kind of lightness of mind that makes you speak and act in a silly or giddy or irresponsible way (he calls it "unseemly joy").
--A kind of dullness of the mind and senses -- which reminds me of KJP's point about ADHD ("tuning out" in response to too much stimuli) and also the way people who are used to TOO MUCH seem to crave more and more -- more spices, more sugar, more Xtreme everything.
--uncleanness -- I suppose this could imply impurity but we don't have to go there -- I was thinking that when you have too much STUFF around the house it's way harder to keep things clean and tidy!! and in that regard KJP talks about how kids get overwhelmed by their rooms and stop taking good care of their things. I think it relates to Moms too.
I would also add that "TOO MUCH" especially when the kids aren't demanding it but just trying to live with it, can lead to hyper-anxiety. Jesus talks very specifically about this in Matthew 6. He talks about how anxious we get about having "enough" and how we should let God take care of our needs. He says that we should not lay up treasures on earth, or serve Mammon. In the context it doesn't seem to be just talking about very rich people but about everybody who stores things up excessively "just in case".
A child brought up in an environment cluttered with all this "just in case" stuff may well develop anxieties as he tries to get his mind around all the complexity.
You know, when I started reading this book I was thinking that my house doesn't really have that much of a problem because my kids don't have anywhere near 150 toys apiece, etc. But in working through all these symptoms I do notice that they apply so I have a feeling that our house does have TOO MUCH even though it might not be quite as extreme as in those rather wealthy families with only one or two children born later in the parents' lives.
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Willa
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donnalynn
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DominaCaeli
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Willa wrote:
| You know, when I started reading this book I was thinking that my house doesn't really have that much of a problem because my kids don't have anywhere near 150 toys apiece, etc. But in working through all these symptoms I do notice that they apply so I have a feeling that our house does have TOO MUCH even though it might not be quite as extreme as in those rather wealthy families with only one or two children born later in the parents' lives. |
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This was my thought too. I don't think we have a problem with physical clutter compared to the families he talks about in this book, but I can still see places to prune--especially in those more abstract areas of "too many choices" and "too much information." And I would add verbal and mental clutter to my own personal list as well.
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How would you apply the "four pillars of too much" to homeschooling methods?
Does it apply?
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Tracey
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donnalynn
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LeeAnn
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donnalynn wrote:
| Not all Waldorf famlies are "secular" - they come from a broad range of backgrounds and religions. I really would not make assumptions about Waldorf families as a group. |
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Donnalynn, I didn't mean to imply that all Waldorf families are secular, which is why I said "secular *and/or* Waldorf" families. I know many Waldorf families are spiritual--presumably with spiritual goals of their own for their families--although few in the mainstream Waldorf community are Catholic or orthodox Christian.
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Simplicity Parenting: Intro and Ch. 1
