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Chari
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| Posted: Nov 11 2005 at 11:46pm | IP Logged
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I have a 12yo who can read.....comprehends what she reads pretty well.......but has just not clicked with fluency......is not happy her younger sister has been more fluent for over two years 
any ideas of what has worked for you?
do you think she will EVER improve??
prayers appreciated!
FREEZING...........BRRRRRRRR......
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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Leonie
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| Posted: Nov 12 2005 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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Chari,
When you say fluency, do you mean fluency in oral or silent reading or both?
Just clarifying. I am easily confused.
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Leonie in Sydney
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Chari
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| Posted: Nov 12 2005 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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probably both
especially oral
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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Leonie
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| Posted: Nov 13 2005 at 1:47am | IP Logged
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On another homeschool email list, a poster said she had noted , when teaching in schools, that visual spatial learners were less fluent with oral readi8ng.
Her take was not to worry about this - if the child was able to read silently and comprehend and narrate then oral reading was less used in life and less important for that learner.
Just thought I'd share.
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Leonie in Sydney
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 13 2005 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
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I think a lot depends on whether or not she avoids reading entirely or doesn't read complete books and what your mom instinct says (usually the mom has some gut instinct when there is something more going on than the usual everyone moves at a different pace and does anyone have any ideas to encourage).
A lot of things can be perfectly normal - and we are just worried or need some fresh ideas to get over a hump. If this is all - then the rest may not be relevant to you. But, since we have a bunch of vision problems in our family, it never hurts to make sure.
I have 3 children that are far-sighted - this is often either not checked for in a regular vision exam or overlooked, but it makes close-work a lot of strain and the eyes tend to tire easily. A dc will seem fine for a little while and then just shut down or struggle with close work as the eyes overtire. Reading glasses help here as do frequent breaks that require some distance vision to relax the eyes.
We also have folks that suppress, - do not use eyes together -, difficulty converging and focusing and these folks in our house do not have any reduced acuity (they are 20/20 in the usual eye exams). They find tracking, reading (especially difficult when reading out loud) and eye-hand things difficult (like cutting with scissors). In our case, readiness type activities did not bring about any improvement (ie - maybe the cutting was difficult because we hadn't done much of it, but even when there were lots of cutting and pasting going on at the simplest possible level, there was no improvement in the coordination with the scissors). Any noise/distraction was especially troublesome to these children. They often reversed letters (reading or writing), skipped small words when reading or lost their place. There would be times when the dc would read - and I'd think maybe it was just giving them a little more time. But then, they would struggle through stuff and somehow I knew something was a challenge. Sometimes I thought dc were reading (and think I had been worried about nothing) only to find out that they really weren't reading - just jumping around in the book for the easy or more interesting parts. Some of my dc seemed fine until we hit small print in chapter books and would read nothing but picture books well past when you'd expect the transition and looked at the number of pages in a book before even thinking about reading it at all. One dd didn't even tell us that close work made her sick to her stomach after 20 - 30 minutes (we found out after therapy eliminated this particular problem) and it is no wonder that dc avoided reading anything lengthy. Another dc never told us about their dizziness until we were seeing improvements in eye skills - they were excited about something they could do that they hadn't been able to do before (which I thought they did perfectly fine).
I observed my dc for jerky eye-movements and just observed the eyes while they were reading or doing close work. It is subtle - my dh sees it while I do not unless it is really obvious because, as it turns out, we just found out I also suppress so now mom is joining dc in therapy. One dc moved all over the place - or moved the book all over the place when reading,etc. The eyes should be able to track a pencil or ball hanging from the ceiling at normal reading distance with totally smooth eye movements. If you see any jerkiness, starts and stops - then I would get a really thourough eye exam from someone that is a fellow of the college of vision development.
There is a lot about not doing things too early, being patient to allow the dc time to develop - not every dc reaches the same point at the same time, etc. I still believe all this, but I also know from experience that there are some true vision problems that are not just wait and give the child time. And after so many in our family have this problem, I get the eyes checked right away just to be sure. The therapy we have done with our dc has made a tremendous difference. Some of my dc who avoided books like the plague are now my biggest readers - but it did take getting them to use their eyes together.
I hope some of this helps. Not every difficulty with reading comprehension/fluency is related to eyes - but they can be and since we have that experience, I felt I'd share it just in case.
Janet
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Leonie
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| Posted: Nov 14 2005 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
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I did a search on reading fluency. A lot of what i found was geared to classrooms but there were a few ideas that kept cropping up -
1. Paired reading - reading a book together. Set aside a time each day or over a week and you read, then the child reads. You are modeling fluency in a one-to-one situation.
2.Repeated reading - reading and re-reading the same poem or short story, over a space of time - oral and silent reading.
HTH!
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mumofsix
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I can vouch for the success of paired reading in improving fluency. It brought my oldest child, who has Down's Syndrome, to reading fluency and it has been helpful to all the others at various stages.
Jane.
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Willa
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And I can vouch for repeated reading, at least if the child is agreeable to the idea. One of my sons read the same book over and over until he was fluent. It seemed to help him process and get all his systems on the same page (ha ha pun not intended, I haven't had my coffee)
Chari, it sounds like she has already come a looong way since a year or so ago! Maybe that's a good sign for her future improvement! Congrats
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Angie Mc
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Hey Chari!
I finally posted my modified choral reading ideas. I came up with this approach after visual problems were ruled out by a specialist...God bless Dr. Bacon! (helpful post, Janet.) I agree with Leonie, Jane, and Willa. What we do is a specific combination of paired and repeated reading. For our family, the missing pieces of the puzzle, in retrospect included:
Paired Reading: I had been reading with Aiden daily doing a variety of things. Sometimes I would read, then he would read. Sometimes we would read at the same time (choral.) Sometimes I would have him "sound it out." I think the deliberateness of the "modified choral reading" approach we took was key for us. (Mind you, my other readers didn't need the deliberate approach and benefitted from a more casual one.)
Repeated Reading: We were doing this as well but weren't doing it to the point of deliberate mastery and/or it wasn't tagged to interest. Aiden really needed some "meat" in his stories so, although useful, Cat in the Hat wasn't pulling his heart or his reading along.
For Aiden, I believe it is the order and deliberateness that helped. Also, this was definitely connected to developmental readiness at an older age.
I'm so grateful that we followed a CM approach in his early years. I'm happy to say that he never felt like he was a bad reader or that books were awful. He always identified himself as a lover of books and a reader  . From Aiden "It went from where I couldn't read to where I could read very hard books, like Treasure Island. It just seems like I had trouble reading very easy books and now I look back on them and I can read them with my eyes closed! It just really worked. It was hard when I couldn't read but it was worth waiting for the time that I could." I will add, it was worth every effort that we made, too.
Praying for peace as we moms strive to help our children and that we find just what we need when we need it.
Keep us posted when you have a chance, Chari. You are an awesome mom, teacher, and online friend  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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TracyQ
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Chari,
Just in case it could be a vision learning problem, I just posted in the other forum (Real Learning forum I think) a link that has a symptoms checklist and information Children's Vision
It may not be a problem for her (vision learning problems), but for our son, it was, and vision learning therapy was extremely helpful. He's like a new person when it comes to reading. He had a vision tracking AND sequencing problem. The vision sequencing problem makes him have difficulty with oral reading, putting a lot of throat stops in, causing non-fluency.
Just wanted to give you the information, just in case.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Helping a 12 yo gain fluency in reading..
