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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 18 2005 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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Jenn,
I cannot find the post where you asked about the introduction of movies and stories dealing with fairy tales and the like in the context of a Montessori education and if it might confuse a child younger than 6 or hinder their intelligence.
I started to answer your post and had this part of your post saved: "So, no Disney of course, no Grimm's or Aesop's or Hans Christian Anderson. No Narnia, Stewart Little, Charlotte's Web, either. It would seem to limit quite a bit.
First of all, is this true? Is the sole aim to develop the child intellectually? That they can't separate reality from fantasy?
I'm reeling at this idea, as it seems a bit radical.
So much of child's play is in an imaginary world.... It's okay to pretend to be a baseball player, but not okay to be a fairy princess like Cinderella?"
I began to answer your post and ended up writing a whole chapter concerning this. 
Here are some of my thoughts.
I think each parent must ask themself what their sole aim is in the education and development of their child---each child, for that matter---then find a balance.
Are children confused before the age of 6 concerning fantasy and reality? My first thought was, "Certainly." AFter further thought, I'm tempted to change my opinion. Before the age of reason (usually 7 years ), children are not confused at all. To them everything is either black or white, loved or hated, beautiful or ugy. We're the ones confused. 
Your question was should we keep them from the exposure of fairy tales and such before the age of 6. I don't think so.
A small child cannot possibly comprehend the reality around him. He cannot possibly begin to grasp the full picture of reality because of all the gray areas within it. What he does understand is the fantasy version given him through fairy tales. He has the ugly and the beautiful. The black and the white. The good, the bad. There is hardly ever a discrepancy between the two. A child can understand and relate to what is read to him because there are no complex issues, no secondary plots. No complex characters. No gray area. The tale is just is as it is. No more, no less.
I see no reason in keeping these things from 6 and under. My 3 yr old certainly enjoys them but doesn't grasp as much as my 8 yr old. It is all playful fare to her. So shouldn't I be working with her intellect instead of her imagination? That's the question, right?
I believe the picture book fairy tales I read my 3 yr old does develop her intellect. How? Through the questions my child asks me about the story. Every question she thinks and asks develops her intellect. Wasn't it Einstein who said that imagination is more important than education? Yes, here it tis...(had to go googling for it) : "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." Einstein, Albert
If I neglect this area of my child's chilhood, I will miss out on the greatest part of my child's imagination. And, I believe, her imagination (and her intelligence) will be dwarfed because of it. I honestly believe this.
I do believe it is too radical an approach to leave fairy tales out of our children's education. I agree with Elizabeth that the books then and the books now vary greatly. I'm also a big advocate of "everything in moderation." Too much of anything is not good. But "No Narnia, No Stewart Little, No Charlotte's Web, either?" Why, there might as well not be a poor little Jewish girl who became the Queen of Heaven, much less a King born in a manger. And a man being raised from the dead? Who would believe such a thing unless one had the hopes and dreams of childhood placed in them at an early age. I do not mean to imply that the kingship of Christ and the virginity of Mary are illusionary as a fairy tale. What I do mean is that fairy tales reach a child's soul when he is of an age to believe in miracles. Once this is established, a child's mind is open enough to believe in more abstract beliefs even after the wisdom and disillusions of advancing age has taken away everything else.
Doesn't Christ tell us that to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one must become like a child again? And what about the parable of the little mustard seed. If we had faith the size of this tiny seed, we could move mountains. Isn't that what fairy tales teach us? If we can teach that to our children at an early age, then nothing shall be impossible to them.
AFter saying all that, my newly-8-yr-old and I are working our way through The Complete Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales (Fully Illustrated). I am breaking her of Disney fare and giving her something with more substance to chew on. And, surprisingly enough, some of the stories are so off the wall and peculiar, I am the one left puzzled and questioning.
Reading these tales makes me realize how very much today's fairy tales rewrites and Disney versions are watered down. CM would probably consider them mere "twaddle". Montessori would probably not consider them at all. (I'm speaking of fairy tales here and not the lovely picture books that are available today).
I'm sure Montessori meant well in wanting the intellect developed vs the imagination. But I'm more apt to agree with Einstein and CM on this one.
I found this that I thought might be helpful:
Quotes on Imagination
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 18 2005 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
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Ah, here is this original post (under Real Learning): COGS/Montessori Question
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Cay Gibson
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 19 2005 at 9:10am | IP Logged
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So much for doing away with Disney fare.
My girls are at it again this morning.
During our camper stay due to Rita, they watched Disney's "Robin Hood" every night.
They have been playing "Robin Hood" every day since. Maid Marion, Robin Hood, Little John, Friar, Prince John, King Richard, or so woven into their imaginations right now that they live, breath, and eat this adventure.
No matter that in their minds they see foxes and bears and rabbit, etc. They are enthralled with the whole Robin Hood adventure and it is framing the groundwork for more discovering and appreciation in years to come.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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JennGM
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| Posted: Oct 19 2005 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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Cay,
Thanks for the beautiful and thoughtful response on my question. Things are a bit clearer to me. I'll have to find the quote, but I also found something in Nancy Walsh's "Natural Structure" that helped clarify this for me.
My one sister has 4 girls and she is very immersed in Montessori method....yet her girls are living the fairy tales of Disney characters, particularly her now 5 yo. She's not sure how to "break" the habit...but seeing her older two being able to grasp reality find, she isn't too concerned.
Maybe that's the conclusion to make: don't inundate, balance, watch and wait. If it's just too much lack of reality, then act upon it.
As for your girls, with the series of traumatic events that have unfolded in the past few months, a little imagination play seems harmless to me. I would keep up with what you're doing Cay... Also show the historical sides (picture books of people, not animals) of Robin Hood so they can balance out the picture. How about the movie with Erol Flynn? He's dashing and handsome. Even in black and white our family loved it down the young ages.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 19 2005 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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Jenn,
Not sure if these links have been shared but, in case they have not:
The Importance of Imagination in Education by Laura Berquist (tape)
The Importance of Imagination by Laura Berquist
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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Willa
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Some thoughts on fairy tales and imagination from a Charlotte Mason perspective here -- scroll down page for some more links to Parents Review articles and a quote from GK Chesterton (who had strong opinions on the value of imagination in education)
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JennGM
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| Posted: Nov 03 2005 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
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A further question on this idea. If I'm presenting more reality for my son, I'm wondering if and when and how to present books.
I'm specifically asking about some Tomie dePaola books, such as Strega Nona and the follow-up stories. Magic is mentioned, and the word Witch is used also. At this age, I gloss over these terms, but I've only presented Strega Nona and will be doing Merry Christmas, Strega Nona. I have the other books waiting in the wing, but I'm wondering 1) do you hold back and wait until an older age to present such stories and 2) if and when, how do you address subjects like magic?
Hope this makes sense. Thanks!
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Mari
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Hi all,
I also had this dilema with what to do with my kids.
I feel that there is so much in real nature that is wonderful that there is more than enough to last the first 5 years. I just want to say that some fiction I class as being real. For example Robin Hood (in human version not as a fox) is real. Even if the story is not exactly as reality, the people are real, the forest is real, etc. The child will fell real emotions, real situations, etc. But Peter Pan and flying blue elephants for me are not necessary for then in these first few years.
I think some people would argue that the 3 little pigs are part of what Montessori would include as cultural and thus necessary. I would agree but I don't think that means we have to give all cultural things at such a small age.
I limited all books and films with these fantasy animals and my children don't seem to have suffered. Now that the eldest dd is 7 she is fully enjoying these missed out fantasy stories. It even gets her reading much more (as often these books are with simple language so easy to read). If ever she is not sure I get questions or comments like "can some pigs really walk on their hind legs?" and "this isn't real, it's just a fun story"! It shows that she has a real base to compare things with.
About imagination. I found both my kids were actively using their imagination but in reality. Without feeding them ideas they came out with their own images but describing them in "real" terms (such as a scary animal with hard, smooth scales - scales are hard and smooth in real life). They have great imaginations that are based on reality.
I do think it will vary from child to child the stage at which they would be ready for fantasy. I would just suggest that it is not because we give it early that they are going to miss out on it!
I really belive that there is a difference between imagination that has come freely from the child than imagination that has been encouraged/"forced"/fed to them. I may seem a bit radical but when they are so small I feel it may hamper them in some way. In any case there is so much "real" fantastic stuff in nature that it would be pity not to use this precious all so short 0-6 years period to fully share this with them!
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Mari, mother of 2 loving daughters aged 8 and 10
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: Imagination vs. Knowledge
