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Donna Marie
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I have a question. For the first time in a long while we have a youth group at our church for jr-sr high. I have 3 children that fit into this age group so I decided to attend a meeting with them...I told them that the kids were coming and btw..so was I... 
The general format was ok...kinda..
they were given a pocket bible that was a poor translation that had my kids rolling their eyes in my general direction and they used this bible during a discussion of who they were. The theme of the night was "who am I". It was ok but felt too ...dunno...dumbed down? On the plus side, after this evening the girls spent the weekend with this bible open and compared and contrasted its content with our bible at home...made for some very interesting discussions...
anyhoo
it had its good moments...the kids played together. some of it was a bit hokey...
the plus was that over 1/2 of the kids there were our homeschooling friends so we kinda converted the place into an interesting social event.
They were told that each time they met they would learn a new song that was like pop Catholic music. After listening to one song the leader said "Isn't this a cool song? I mean this would be GREAT to hear in Mass!" I interjected ...nooo...I really don't think that would be a good idea...
She asked why not...
I said, because Holy Mass is something so very special and sacred and God deserves music that goes deeper than this does. and I did mention that this kind of music is great for a campfire or a dance or something..it had its place but Holy Mass was not one of them.
So we agreed that we disagreed...
I don't know how comfy my kids feel about going. There are good points...but why do I feel so weird about this? I know they want to do good service type projects. I don't think they will end up doing anything that we wouldn't be doing with our local homeschool community though. We live such a meaningful existence when we homeschool...when we play...when we pray. I know we are not "better" than anyone...but we do choose to live deeper. I think we found this get-together to be strangely wanting of what it could have been. The kids feel a strange nagging feeling and we still wonder...is this something that should be worth our time? It is so hard to find good groups to belong to. Maybe we should start something on our own??
and then my parish priest asked me what I thought.
after my encounter with the parish over the weird confirmation retreat I was wondering if he really wanted to know or not...I have a tendency to be the orthodox meter as of late....lol what a distinction...sigh.
What is the push lately for each INDIVIDUAL to be more involved with "parish life" ...kinda like that children's liturgy thread....what about Christ-centered things that are not dumbed down that suit the family as a whole instead..could that be a do-able thing?
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc + one more due 10/08!
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Wendy
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I don't have much advice for you, Donna Marie, except to say that when I've ignored my "weird feeling" in the past, I've usually regretted it.
We are facing what looks to be a similar situation at our prospective parish, so I'm curious to see what others think.
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God bless,
Wendy
Wife to Chris
Momma to Grace, Sam, Ben, Maggie, Mary Cate, and Jamie
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guitarnan
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My son's Confirmation program required one visit to a Life Teen meeting and one to teen Adoration. Ds went to both, unwillingly, and judged them to be "not my type" activities. I know many other teens at our parish really enjoy the LT program, but my ds isn't much for singing (he has a great voice, though) and gets tired of the school-girls-school discussions most teen boys he knows obsess on.
I would love to see a teen homeschool group form, from our local cluster of parishes, but I don't have time to put something like that together. Sigh.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Leonie
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We got very involved with our youth groupo ourselves as parents - helping out, organising things, inviting the leadrs over for meals - we have been influencing and kinda changing ther face of youth group this way...I just think it is good for my kids, and for us, to be involved and give back to the parish. It hasn't been ideal but we are gradually seeing more positive changes!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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catholicmomma
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Donna Marie,
I think an important thing to realize is that Church youth groups are supposed to be evangelistic. They are not designed to be religion classes. and Jr Hi kids are highly social creatures. I think a good youth program has a good balance of social, service, prayer and learning how to LIVE our faith.
A lot depends on the leaders. LT (or any youth program) can be done well by leaders who have a deep faith life and are passionate about loving teens and providing opportunities for them to deepen their faith as well as form relationships with other, like-minded Catholics. Or it can be done very badly by poorly formed leaders who think that they "should" provide a Catholic club.
At the same time, the teens who show up are all part of your parish, your faith community (the catechism says we learn our vocation through community, btw), and the leaders obviously have to welcome everybody, even those from really bad family/school situations. So you have to decide if the other kids are SUCH a bad influence that you just don't want to expose your kids, and/or whether your kids are secure enough to be able to be a good influence on the others, and/or whether the opportunities to learn to live the more "social" aspects of parish life and the spiritual dimension of this particular group will help your kids grow or just be a waste of time. May God give you wisdom!
Certainly there are no perfect people in the Church! No perfect priest, youth leader, parent, teen, child - not 'til we get to heaven. I am NOT saying to send them, because I have seen some pretty bad programs.
But I am also suggesting that you not write it off after just one meeting. I have seen homeschooled kids right in the heart of things, loving their youth groups, growing in faith and developing leadership skills and solid friendships. Unfortunately, I have also seen some pretty snobby homeschoolers who were an intense embarrassment with their self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude toward every staff person and every non-homeschooling family at their parish.
IF you think the program is worth investing in, perhaps you could try volunteering for the core/service team.
Being on the team will DEFINITELY give you a really good idea of the intent behind the meetings. Do they pray for the young people? Do they make it a priority to get teens in front of the Eucharist? Is the purpose only social or is it to present orthodox Catholic teaching in a way MOST young people can understand?
Don't forget that a youth minister has NO POWER to make teens come - there are no grades attached, no "carrot dangling in front of the cart" like graduation, to force them to come. So youth groups HAVE to lure kids in with fun events: good food, friends, fun. THEN they can introduce them to deeper faith. So don't get offended by the hokey games and silly stuff - things adults can't stand but MOST teens (the younger, the goofier) find hilariously fun.
Other things people don't usually understand about youth ministry: many youth ministers usually only last 1-2 years because 1)they get no support from the pastor - neither from a spiritual nor a healthy employer-employee perspective, 2) they have no budget or financial support, 3) they get constant, unhelpful criticism from parents or staff, 4) they are constantly in a spiritual battle (if they are doing their jobs well).
A good youth minister will look at the crowd of teens and know exactly what's going on in many of their individual lives, and will tailor the meetings to meet the needs they know are there. Teens' lives are filled with a lot of pain, emotional problems, family abuse, parental spiritual apathy, drugs, rape, sexual sin, crime, etc. (These are just a sampling of issues we dealt with in middle to upper-class parishes in three different states. And of course we could not tell anyone about those things.) So if a youth minister looks at you cross-eyed when you complain about something, they just might have put that thing at the bottom of the priority list.
Then again, if you join the team and there is NO spiritual leadership from the youth minister (or at least a passion for God combined with a good understanding of the Church's teachings), you're probably wasting your time and your kids'.
God bless,
Lisa B in OH
(married to youth minister 18 years)
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stefoodie
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We're not involved in our church youth group but have been involved for two years now in CFC-FFL and their Young Ministry... when we first joined there were many moments of "what are we doing here?"; we were just at the point in our lives where I think we (okay, mostly *I*) needed more orthodoxy and we weren't finding it in the group.
One thing we've had to remind ourselves often is that the program is not meant for homeschooling families like ours -- many of the kids come from public schools, a few even from problematic family backgrounds...
It helped when we started looking at it like Leonie does:
[quote]We got very involved with our youth groupo ourselves as parents - helping out, organising things, inviting the leadrs over for meals - we have been influencing and kinda changing ther face of youth group this way...I just think it is good for my kids, and for us, to be involved and give back to the parish. It hasn't been ideal but we are gradually seeing more positive changes![/url]
Because our membership is spread out over several parishes there are two parishes right now that we are focusing on -- one is in the process of discerning if they want to choose our group as its Family Ministry.
While admittedly we are not "getting much" from being members other than the camaraderie, friendship and opportunity to praise and worship together on a regular basis, we've found that there *is* a reason why we're here -- already like Leonie we're seeing some changes happen, e.g., more devotion to saying the Rosary, more pro-life sentiments being expressed, a return to learning basic Catechism and apologetics, parents getting more involved with their children's religious and moral formation, etc. -- some of which we know may have been our influence.
So who knows, it may not be that you and your kids will benefit a whole lot from being there, but God may be calling you to make a significant difference...
Sending prayers!
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stef
mom to five
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Angie Mc
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My wonderful priest, who is a big advocate and supporter of Life Teen, told me that this parish group is for those who need it (teens whose families are struggling or who don't have a strong faith foundation, etc.) or those who are called to it (teens who enjoy same aged activities or feel called to evangelical and/or charismatic faith expressions, etc.) If a teen has a strong, faith-filled family and is called to serve his parish community in other ways (lectoring, altar serving, helping in kitchen after daily mass, music ministry, etc.) then our priest is happy for the teen!
catholicmomma wrote:
Don't forget that a youth minister has NO POWER to make teens come - there are no grades attached, no "carrot dangling in front of the cart" like graduation, to force them to come. |
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At our parish, Life Teen participation is mandatory to receive the sacrament of Confirmation. Families who understand their parental rights and responsibilities can work around this (our older children were confirmed in our neighboring diocese as part of our homeschooling group with permission from our priest) but many families are not well-informed.
Donna Marie wrote:
What is the push lately for each INDIVIDUAL to be more involved with "parish life" ...suit the family as a whole instead..could that be a do-able thing?
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I believe this is doable by going to Mass as a family. We attend as a family and our children lector or altar serve. When we go to daily Mass, our children help out informally...set up chairs, talk with the elderly. We stop by the office and chat with the ladies there...and in the kitchen...and in the store. We've helped in the office in the past.
My 16yo dd is going to Stuebenville West in Tucson with our parish next weekend. All of the teens involved in anyway at our parish were invited and are being funded. Efforts like this go a long way to build respect and relationships across parish group lines. We're grateful!
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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donnalynn
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Cay Gibson
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Donna Marie wrote:
What is the push lately for each INDIVIDUAL to be more involved with "parish life" ...suit the family as a whole instead..could that be a do-able thing?
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So much of society believes that children should be taught to be individual. They purposely pull them away from family. I think, unconsciously, our church parishes do it without meaning to.
My children have never been involved in church youth groups, though dh and I were very involved in CYO and LifeTeen---that's how we met  . But our parents were also involved. Like Leonie's example. Where the parents are involved, there is the influence.
My older children just haven't had an interest in the CYO or, what is now called "The Voice" in our parish. Truth is, I'm thankful. They're involved in groups with our hs group and that's plenty.
So, my experience is passed on church youth group compared to hs youth activities. There's a huge different.
What I see, and what I remember, in the church youth group isn't the same spirituality that is present in hsing group. In hsing groups the parents are "there" and there is a keener concern for focusing our activities on the faith.
I have also had my children help their father and I with the pro-life ministry through our church and my oldest dd helped me teach 4th grade CCD last year. She has also helped work in the church office and now works at the local nursing home. She's found a whole ministry just by working there. My oldest ds is active in the Knights of Columbus with his dad. My second son hangs out with our seminarian friend (who we've known since birth) instead of the peer group. No doubt who the better role model is.
My 10yr old daughter helps babysit for three families. She's a "mommy's helper" and she loves it.
Every Monday night my dh and I go to Adoration Chapel. Through the summer the CYO offers Teen Dances. They are going on during our hour and ends at the end of our hour. So my ultimate sacrifice during the summer is listening to booming music during my hour and having to walk out of the peaceful chapel to glaring headlights, goofy teenagers, shouting, and chaotic laughter.
The drive home is even worse. My dh and I pass loads of teenagers walking home in the dark, ripping off their shirts, shoving each other, smoking, etc...just hoards of them. And I always feel so sad having to see this scene after leaving Adoration. It greatly disturbs my inner peace.
I am so grateful my children haven't been involved in the youth group or ever desired to go to those dances.
I'm not negative-teenagers or their activities. I've raised three of them so far. I have teenagers walking through my house all the time. Most of them are childhood friends. Every now and again, I take my turn as car-pooler of a carload teenagers to the movies and sit by myself quietly munching my popcorn and watching the movie while they enjoy their teenage socializing activity.
I think, for some families, the church youth groups are do-able. Again, my dh and I survived the church youth group nicely and Leonie's boys are outstanding models. But, in both cases, the parents were there and active. With two younger children I never had the desire or the energy to be a part of it. It would have stressed me out terribly.
donnalynn wrote:
I think there is too much emphasis on making things fun and entertaining - I believe our children and especially our teens are starved for *Beauty* - music, art, prayers, liturgy - somehow along the way we have lost the idea that a young person can appreciate real Beauty - Truth - Goodness. By constantly bringing things down "to their level" - do we give them any thing of awe and wonder?? Do we give them anything to look up to?
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Donna,
I am so in agreeance with you.
The older I get and the older my children get the more I see how true this is.
My 10 yr old and I just had this discussion on Sunday after a little cousin (who was with us during PawPaw's funeral) told her that her church was "funner" than the Catholic church. Gee, that's an old one, huh? 
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc wrote:
Donna Marie wrote:
What is the push lately for each INDIVIDUAL to be more involved with "parish life" ...suit the family as a whole instead..could that be a do-able thing?
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I believe this is doable by going to Mass as a family. We attend as a family and our children lector or altar serve. When we go to daily Mass, our children help out informally...set up chairs, talk with the elderly. We stop by the office and chat with the ladies there...and in the kitchen...and in the store. We've helped in the office in the past.
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...and we attend funerals. Yesterday our family attended a funeral Mass for a retired priest at our parish. (Eternal rest grant unto Fr. Fowler.) Because there are so many elderly in our retirement town parish, we have attended many funerals. Along with two other homeschooling families, we are often the only families with children who attend. The children are *always* so well received because they bring a lightness and hope...and memories of when funerals were held in hometowns with extended family and friends in attendance.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Donna Marie
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donnalynn wrote:
I guess I keep asking myself - why? Why are so many Catholics so apathetic? I don't know that all the "requirements" imposed by parishes help but what is the answer? I really feel badly for our DRE.
I think there is too much emphasis on making things fun and entertaining - I believe our children and especially our teens are starved for *Beauty* - music, art, prayers, liturgy - somehow along the way we have lost the idea that a young person can appreciate real Beauty - Truth - Goodness. By constantly bringing things down "to their level" - do we give them any thing of awe and wonder?? Do we give them anything to look up to?
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I think this is why I feel so weird. I am sooo sick of apathy and we are all craving beauty! I am also tired of the dumbed down approach to dealing with teen groups. I think they crave so much more than that.
This is an interesting thread...I am reading...I can't comment too much because my eyes are killing me from some kind of sinus infection that I must have picked up...sigh! I will read more when my body lets me!
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc + one more due 10/08!!
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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albeto
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Cay Gibson wrote:
So much of society believes that children should be taught to be individual. They purposely pull them away from family. I think, unconsciously, our church parishes do it without meaning to.
My children have never been involved in church youth groups, though dh and I were very involved in CYO and LifeTeen---that's how we met . But our parents were also involved. Like Leonie's example. Where the parents are involved, there is the influence.
My older children just haven't had an interest in the CYO or, what is now called "The Voice" in our parish. Truth is, I'm thankful. They're involved in groups with our hs group and that's plenty.
So, my experience is passed on church youth group compared to hs youth activities. There's a huge different.
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I'm so glad I found this thread. My son is now 13 and the only friend he's ever had moved away a few months ago. I've by eyeballing our parish whith hopes for a youth group revival (it is now nearly non-existant) but I think this comment is really enlightening. I think you're right with the idea that our culture encourages children to make up their own communities separate from the family. That's a real shame, imo, and one I don't want to introduce to my children. Anyway, he has Asperger's and is terribly shy around people he doesn't know so its not like I could drop him off or anything. But I am so glad to hear this idea, it makes me feel far less guilty.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Church youth groups
