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Laura
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This has probably already been discussed....if so send me a link! 
I have read A Mother's Rule for Life once and I am now reading it again with the intention to actually write out my rule this time around!
I have been VERY hesitant as we used MOTH and it did not work for us.
The book mentions MOTH at the beginning....
I remember thinking as I read it the last time that by the end of the book...it seemed alot like MOTH, except with a Catholic flare and a different set up.
Have any of you written your rule and had success with it for more then 3 months?
I really admire people who remain faithful to their schedules as we never seem to do so!
My home is organized, but not "happily organized" and so I am still looking for that "perfect way", but I am beginning to think that there is none except the Nike Motto: JUST DO IT!
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Erica Sanchez
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Laura, I was just thinking that I need to re-read this book and try to get some things down on paper. We could do it together. I don't want to have the entire day scheduled, necessarily, but I would love a better prayer life and a more scheduled housecleaning routine. I'd love to hear if anyone has had long-term success with some kind of 'rule' as well.
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Laura
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Erica,
I wonder if this book has been discussed in the Book Club Forum? I should do a search...
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Natalia
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Laura,
I don't remember AMROL being discussed here on this board but I do remember it was discussed on the CCM list.
Natalia
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Molly Smith
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It's one of those books, like MOTH, that I go to every so often. I think I've gleaned some valuable information, particularly about prioritizing, from MROL. I do like to keep up with her website.
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Molly Smith in VA
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Laura
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Thanks for the link Molly.
I just got finised with the chapter on the first P: Prayer.
I am forcing myself to stop and work on it in my notebook. The last time I read the book I just kept reading thinking that I would put it all together after I finished the book which I never did.
I need to really listen to what she is saying when she says that a Rule is more then just a schedule because if you turn it into just a schedule it will probably not work for long.
Of course we all know that our being wives and mothers is our vocation, but do we really *~KNOW~* that it is our VOCATION?
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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mumofsix
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While I am on my anti-clericalism trip I will say briefly why I dislike MROL. The idea of a religious "rule" for a mother is completely inappropriate. We are all called to holiness and prayer is an essential part of any Christian life. However, a mother should not try to emulate the monastic prayer schedule of a cloistered nun (unless her daily duties as a mother in a practical sense are coming to an end). To do so would almost certainly militate against her God-given vocation. The author speaks of sending her children out for recess morning and evening while she continues with her very demanding prayer schedule. I have read of mothers who regularly leave teenage girls in charge of large families so that they can go to daily Mass. Little children constantly need you. Teenage children need you only a very little less (and sometimes a great deal more!). If we really want to become more sensitive to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, we should listen more to our children and watch them carefully. We should try to worship Jesus in the way Mary did, by changing his nappies and cuddling him and feeding him with great love.
You can kill quite a few Ps in one fell stroke by having a family prayer time every day. Until recently we did this in the mornings, so that I could be sure it would be "done". However, I have been convicted that it is extremely important to have my husband there and my eldest son, who would tend to miss it otherwise. So now it happens at night and it is a very precious time. Daily Mass is great if you can do it without hurting anyone. We have just recently been able to resume this, but we only go if it seems right for everybody. We shoot for four times a week, but are happy if we manage once. If there are times when all the children are asleep and you are not (improbable if you have a very young baby) then by all means spend time in private prayer. Reading and praying with the gospels is something that you can pick up and put down again and do usefully in just a few moments. We can practice the presence of God and offer up all our daily duties for the intentions of His Sacred Heart.
The notion of a mother's sabbath seems a selfish one to me, as does the prospect of spending hours in private prayer while young children are awake and needing you. My three year old already has to put his need for me on hold quite a bit throughout the day while I tend to his baby sister or teach his older siblings. I think it is better to tend to this Jesus in His not so distressing but rather lovely disguise than to push him away while I return to my "rule". I am not an unschooler and we do have "school" times morning and afternoon for about two hours each. I don't like to schedule the rest of the day though (apart from meals) because then how can I respond to what God wants in any given moment? He often speaks to me through my children.
MOTH and MROL are tempting (I have both!) because the homeschooling endeavour is a complex one in some ways. They seem to provide answers. But I don't think they do. A simple daily routine, one or two "school" sessions (depending upon the age of your children) and a daily family prayer time, plus Mass occasionally if you can get to it, is all you need. Keep outside activities to the minimum and life is more restful. Spend some time just playing. I didn't pray my Divine Office today, but then I am not a nun and I don't believe God asks me to do this. I did roll down the slope in my garden with my three year old though!
You know, if feeding on demand is the right thing for a baby, so is being available to respond to the more complex needs of older children as and when they arise.
Jane.
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JennGM
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Jane,
Thanks for this! I thought there were good ideas in MROL, but your comments hit the nail on the head where I had my similar objections. I'm still praying for that book that is a Catholic homeschooling Flylady (Chari???). I feel overwhelmed at trying to balance my needs and family needs, and MROL put MORE burdens and guilt on me that I wasn't doing enough, especially in the prayer department.
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| Spend some time just playing. I didn't pray my Divine Office today, but then I am not a nun and I don't believe God asks me to do this. I did roll down the slope in my garden with my three year old though! |
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Making myself available for my child's needs, not structuring their life around my needs!
Rolling down the slope! What fun!!! Dh just taught my son that a few weeks ago. He loved it. What a great mom you are!
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Laura
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Jane,
Wow! You are on a role today! You should speak up more often.
I just finished reading your post in the "how to say no" thread, and now this!
I too have never felt the need for a mother's sabbath, but I do know of many who truly need them to be able to come back refreshed. Many of my friends try to convince me to make use of them and to have nights out with my dh, but we have always been home bodies. Don't get me wrong we all get on eachother's nerves sometimes, but overall we prefer to just always be together.
I agree what you wrote except for the fact that you made no mention of housework in there! This is where I am searching for that balance. I love so many of the ideas that have been shared these past few days...like Julie's idea of being a "one thing" mom, but far too often I am overwhelmed and need that structure that something like MOTH or MROL would give me.
I need to often search my heart though...asking if I am spending my time wisely and if a schedule would help fix that. My mom never had "mom time". There were no computers to waste time on  , and she did not watch television, read for herself, etc...
She spent ALL of her time keeping busy with us and the house.....
There is room for improvement and I am back again at the old motto...just do it.
Okay....I admit it I'm just confused! 
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Natalia
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Laura wrote:
Jane,
I agree what you wrote except for the fact that you made no mention of housework in there! This is where I am searching for that balance. I love so many of the ideas that have been shared these past few days...like Julie's idea of being a "one thing" mom, but far too often I am overwhelmed and need that structure that something like MOTH or MROL would give me. |
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I know that the author of MROL says not to view her book as just a schedule but that is what it did for me. If you asked me what I got out of the book, all my answers will be practical things like the idea of having a list of the basic things you want to accomplish, the things that are minimum for you to function well; or the room analysis, or doing things as a family instead of having chores assigned each night. These are all practical ideas and in that regard I found the book helpful.
I also liked the concept of the Five Ps. I think is good to have those areas well defined. I think it does help to take inventory of our priorities and make sure that we are not over emphasizing some and neglecting others.
I think that having a personal prayer time is important but I think how you define personal changes according to the different seasons of our lives. I think that sometime personal might mean a quick turning to the Lord while doing our every day chores. I do try to have some time for personal prayer before the kids wake up. I try to do the Morning prayer for the Liturgy of the Hours or read Scripture. I don't think that family prayer time completely fills the need (and do I dare say the obligation?) of a personal prayer time. But I don't feel called to do that in the middle of the day when my kids need me.
MORL reminded me of First Things First by Covey. A look at the priorities and a serious look at the question Do my priorities reflect the kind of life I have commited myself to live? I think is a book that invites reflection and can guide me in my search for balance and it can even provide some weapons to combat that overwhelming feeling that gets over me with more frequency that I dare admit.
Natalia
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Elizabeth
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Gosh, Jane, we're on the same wavelength today and you're saving me tons of time because I can't begin to articulate it all as well as you have  .
I did find it helpful to plan out a scheudle ala MOTH. I haven't looked at since I agreed--the week before school started--to take a toddler into our home 4 days a week. I knew, the whole schedule would have to be re-worked but I've been so busy doing, I haven't any more time to re-do the charts. I know what needs to be done though and I know my priorities well.
I had the same problems Jane did with the philosophy in MROL...I couldn't reconcile it with my vocation as I understand it.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Courtney
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I skimmmed through MROL but couldn't get into it. I did feel a little guilty, though, that maybe I wasn't praying enough.
One book that I do like that speaks to this is Holiness for Housewives. It teaches to pray throughout the day as we are over the dishes, changing the diapers, rocking the baby. I think we offer prayers to God in the way we spend time with our kids and through our actions towards them.
We do most of our school lessons in the mornings. After lunch, we read for about 30min. to an hour. At 2pm, the kids (one ds and one dd) have private time each in their own room. This wasn't my idea but my dh suggested it. He believes children do need some time to be by themselves and be comfortable with it. My kids are 5 and almost 8. I don't think this would've worked before now. But, my daughter just came down and showed me what she'd been doing. She has an old hymnal and misselette in her room and had copied her favorite song from it (All Are Welcome)! How's that for copywork?
Even my ds has found some creative ways to entertain himself for that hour. While they are having their time, that's when I get caught up on housework, phone calls, etc.
After that hour is up, they come down and we either read some more, play outside or go to soccer, art, etc.
I do take extra time in the morning (getting up an hour or so before the kids) to pray and reflect on the day ahead in meditation. I do the same at night. I try to do an examination of conscience at the end of each day: where was I selfish, where did I use a not so nice tone, what could I as mother and wife have done better? These two times are important to me. I have to admit sometimes I am not as disciplined about them but find my day is much smoother if I am!
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Courtney in Texas
Wife to Mike since 3/94 
Mom to Candace 10/97,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
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teachingmyown
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I think a private prayer life is essential. My goal is to get to it before the children are up. If they come in while I am praying I ask them to wait quietly or occupy themselves elsewhere while I finish. This is the only five or ten minutes I get all day, and essentially all night.
I would love to take a Mother's Sabbath. As a baseball mom, it doesn't happen but two or three times a year when I can get to a half day retreat.
I understand the feeling of not wanting to be selfish and be separated from our children. However, I do think the point she makes in MROL is a good one- the point about her husband taking that time when she is gone to nourish his relationship with the children and also to understand more fully what the mother's life is like on a daily basis.
I do have trouble reconciling any large chunk of time away from the kids, such as a weekend away with my husband or on retreat myself. I have been on a couple of retreats but usually have a baby with me while the older kids are with their grandmother.
I think MROL has answers, but maybe not for everyone. Those of you with involved husbands, or boundless energy, or just extroverted personalities may never need to set time apart for yourself. But a lot of mothers NEED that. I think it causes guilt when mothers hear that they shouldn't need that time; that they are selfish because they want to go to Mass or Holy Hour on their own, or even just to go have a cup of coffee or buy a pair of jeans.
The job that were are doing is extraordinary, especially in today's world. We all have different needs and coping skills. My mom had seven children, but we went to school. She didn't need a mom's day out because after we got on the bus, she sat down to a cup of tea and read the paper or a good book. I get five minutes maximum to read a paper while eating breakfast with a toddler on my lap.
Many of you have professional lives which I assume must call for you removing yourself from your children at certain times during the day. When I read the different forums I am always amazed at the amount of reading everyone seems to get done. I think that perhaps the only difference between what some of you all do and what is recommended in MROL is that you don't schedule the time away. Am I mistaken?
I think MROL is a good fit for some. I think it offers at least something to everyone. Just like I can read MOTH and take good things from it, but would never put my baby on a feeding schedule, anyone can read MROL and take the good even if they never feel the need to take a Mother's Sabbath.
Just my tired two cents. Hope it makes sense, my helpers make it hard to keep my train of thought.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Elizabeth
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Your perspective is interesting, Molly. I was feeling guilt about the fact that I couldn't make retreats or evenings out without causing considerable stress in my marriage. My husband is not an ogre. It just didn't work here.
As to professional lives, I write a column every three weeks or so. It's supposed to be every 2 weeks but I often miss the deadline.I only write in the wee hours if no one is awake. So, if I'm not awake , or they are awake, the deadline passes me by.
I do sneak off to Curves every morning. I get up really early and slip out with a spiritual book. I get there at 6:30 and sit and read until someone comes to let me in. If it's a good day, the trainer gets there early and lets me in by 6:45. If it's not (and my favorite trainer doesn't come), I don't get in until 7:00. In that case, I turn around and go home and walk the dog without working out. Seven is too late to start. Either way, I'm home at 7:20. Gracie (our "borrowed" baby) arrives at 7:45 and I try to bring breakfast up to my husband before she gets there. Any later, and the house of cards falls.
I can slip out at noon and walk the dog--my prayer time. So, it's not that I'm opposed to getting away or to praying. My kids are eating at that time. I bring lunch up to my husband, make lunches for the kids, and leave the teenagers in charge of the actual eating. This doesn't take anything from my kids and it doesn't demand anything of my husband.
Today, he took everyone with him to soccer practice. Two of my kids were at different practices with some overlapping times. I had half an hour at home alone. I cherish that time. But I don't demand it or expect it. If I did, I would nurture resesntment.
I'm absolutely not an extrovert.I love alone time and I do love to read. If I can get everyone in bed early, it's a huge treat to read until my husband comes to bed.
I think a schedule has its place. It can help us to organize our thoughts, to prioritize. Personally, I like to think on paper. But I just can't imagine taking the time Mrs. Pierlot seems to think is her right.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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teachingmyown
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Elizabeth,
I think that you are absolutely right about not "expecting" the time to ourselves. Sometimes when I find myself in a real tantrum is when things are not working the way I had planned. I find that if I re-adjust my expectations I don't get quite so annoyed.
I will have to go back and look at MROL because I don't remember her planning large amounts of time for herself, but I have not read it through in several months. It is actually one of a handful of books not packed though!
I guess the point I really wanted to make is that there can be a sense of "absolute" on both sides of any discussion and what I was hearing (or interpretting) here was the idea that moms who schedule time away for prayer and personal time are doing something wrong. And that if I feel that I need that time, then I am missing something in this "mother of a large, homeschooling family" life. I think it can come across as an indictment, putting those of us who take time out on the same plane as the ladies going for weekly manicures while the kids are in daycare! Okay maybe I am stretching it a bit!
There are weeks Court literally pushes me out the door for a Retreat or Holy Hour, and there are Saturdays when even though my schedule is clear I know that I need to be home for down time with the family that rarely happens.
We all have to carve out our time, I think that for some if it isn't scheduled it wouldn't happen. If I didn't have certain commitments, it could be months before I make it to Adoration or even Confession because I am tired on Friday night or Saturday morning. I treasure my weekly commitments, but my family does come first.
My favorite time away these days are the baseball nights when Charlie is home with the younger kids (pizza and movie night, they don't miss me!) and I get to sit in my baseball chair behind homeplate and watch my child play ball. Sometimes I even bring a magazine or catalog to flip through between innings! Now that's the life. Not quite a Jimmy Buffet song, but it is where I am now.
Sorry if I sounded defensive in my first post. I have three little girls helping my type, one sitting on my head, and I have had a horrendous week!
Everything said is said with charity and affection for the wonderful mothers on this forum.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Elizabeth
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Dear Molly,
No offense was taken. It really was interesting to me to read your perspective. For so long, I felt guilty about the fact that I wasn't able to do evenings of recollections and half day retreats. I felt like I wasn't the "holy mother of a large homeschooling family."
My husband works from home during the week. While some people would look at that and say, "Great--you must be able to come and go as you please," the reverse is actually true. From the start of business on the east coast until the close of business on the west coast, I have to try to keep things quiet and orderly here at all times so that he can work in peace and carry on phone conversations in quiet. The blessing is that when he gets a break in his schedule, he can pop in and talk to me or the kids. He spends time with them and sees them when he otherwise wouldn't. Then, he travels nearly every weekend. This leaves me to juggle the weekend activities--if you take me out of the mix, and send me off to a retreat--you create more work--the very real work of farming all of them out.
My strategies for managing time and making time for God are borne out of my own situation. And it doesn't look like very many other people's situations, really. In the "saying no" thread, Jane wrote about priests who don't emphasize enough the primary vocation of a mother. Our families are our first apostolate. I've encountered those priests.And I felt that guilt. Now, I understand clearly that the only ministry that only I can fill is that of mother to my children. No one else can do that. I absolutely need time with God to do that job well. But He sees indside my house. He knows the personalities here. He knows the quirks of my household. And I really think it's GOD who has shown me that I CANT do it any other way right now.
You're right. It's absolutely a very personal thing. And I do think that Holly emphasizes that everyone must come up with her own rule of life. Then we get into semantics. Does that Rule need to be modeled after the monastic life to be considered a Rule or can it just be your own personal understanding of how to best spend your time, to meet your God and faithfully do whatever He tells you?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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teachingmyown
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Elizabeth wrote:
This leaves me to juggle the weekend activities--if you take me out of the mix, and send me off to a retreat--you create more work--the very real work of farming all of them out.
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At a baseball game last weekend, I was unfortunate enough to hear a conversation going on beside me. One woman was telling another, who was a stranger, about how she needed to find rides home for her children from school and sports for the next few weeks. She is a Red Cross Volunteer and had volunteered to go to Louisianato help out with relief efforts. She said " I told them that I was available. My husband wants to go in a few weeks with Habitat for Humanity, so I want to get my turn first".
It took everything I had not to turn around and tell this woman that she was NOT available! She already has a commitment to those children that she now needs to farm out for THREE weeks while she does her own thing! She eventually got familiar enough with the stranger, whose children go to the same elementary school and play on the same team, if she could drive her boys around to different activities.
We will all come to a place in our lives when we can give of ourselves to others, but our commitment is to live in the present and to accept those responsibilities.
I, too, have felt guilty for not being willing to bend on certain things, like not going on a retreat weekend because I won't leave a nursing toddler at home. But at ther times I have left a non-nursing toddler with my mom for two nights while I was on retreat.
I think the main thing to be considered is the impact on those we love when we want to do something for ourselves. If it is just a matter of our husbands needing to include the kids in his Saturday morning plans, so we can get away for a couple of hours, then it probably isn't a big deal. But when we have to start re-arranging everyones' lives and negatively impacting the working of our families, then we have to re-think our plans and evaluate if our priorities are in line, at least for that occasion.
I haven't followed the other thread about saying no, maybe this post would be more appropriate there.
I am afraid I am rambling, Kateri is still climbing all over me and I should be in bed. Afternoon naps for toddlers are not always a good thing!
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Erica Sanchez
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Molly,
Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts on this subject - you have a very balanced and peaceful take on it all.
Laura and all,
I did read the book and then I had the opportunity to hear Holly in person at our homeschool conference back in June. She came across much "softer" and "flexible" in her talks, I thought. The talks were more along the lines of what has been said about personalizing the rule for your family. She actually was quite funny and shared many of the 'disruptions' to the the rule that come from homeschooling a large family. I don't remember these things or the tone being like that in the book, although it has been awhile since I read it.
I could never make or follow a rule like Holly does, but I was very motivated by the 5 P's and the prioritizing that should be in our lives. What I need is more discipline (especially in the area of prayer) and that is what I liked about the book. I remember thinking that my priorities were messed up - like at this very moment - I am on the computer, but I have had no prayer time today (it's noon!). So when Holly's rule has her praying while her kids are in the backyard for a short recess, that makes so much sense to me - 10 minutes or so, not hours. That probably seems silly to mothers who have an awesome prayer life!
As far as a mother's sabbath.....I truly do not "need" much time away from my home or my kids!! I very rarely feel like I 'need to get away from the kids'. BUT, it is so nice to take that long break once in a while (like every 3 or 4 years!) or a regular time for yourself (like a holy hour, a walk, or whatever). And, I don't feel guilty at all - why would I when the children would be with their dad who is much more fun anyway or their grandparents or their favorite aunt who spoils them rotten! Gosh, I'm rambling here and probably not making much sense. I think I am meaning to say that I favor a mother's sabbath, although I would call it something else and I would certainly make sure it would work with my family. Dh and I have had two weekends away from our kids for pleasure and probably six for work (youth ministry) with the occassional individual time away for work or travel to visit dying grandparents, etc. In about one month, dh will be working two hours away and we'll see him on the weekends. He and I have a weekend getaway planned before this happens. We need it. It's technically not a mother's sabbath, but besides helping with Holly's 2nd P, I do believe that it will help me gear up for what's to come - me being home alone with the kids 24/7 during the week with a baby on the way. O.K., I'm really rambling now.....
I liked the book, but I liked it more after hearing her in person, realizing she is a real person who took some control over her life (which meant saying no to some very big things, by the way), who loves her husband and children dearly, and came up with this rule for herself.
Not sure if this helps or even makes sense, but I have to run...........
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Laura
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Joined: Aug 16 2005
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sept 29 2005 at 6:02pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for all of your thoughts ladies.
It does come down to us all coming up with our own "rule" whether we are the type that need it written or not.
I do need to really focus in on the P for Prayer. I am great at family prayer, but I do tend to neglect private prayer and it is important.
Erica thanks for your above post and I am still wanting to try to organize my five P's so we can chat about it sometimes. I'd like that. Right now I am working on the Prayer section of my notebook.
How blessed we all are to have motherhood as our vocation in life!
__________________
JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: A Mother’s Rule for Life/MOTH
