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Cay Gibson
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I'm off to soccer practice but I'm hoping to have some info when I get home. 
Is anyone feeling any pressure? 
Has anyone read Avi or had their dc read this author?
We haven't read Avi but I'm needing some info ASAP...especially regarding the Catholism references in his books.
Thank you!
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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Kelly
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I've wondered about Avi, too...
Kelly in FL
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Cay Gibson
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Was off in a rush and meant to add that I'm specifically interested in his historical fiction.
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Cay Gibson
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alicegunther
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Hi Cay and Kelly,
Here is a copy of the email I sent to Whippersnapper books expressing my concern about Avi's "Crispin: The Cross of Lead." If Whippersnapper were not devoted to providing *Catholic* literature for children, I would not have written it, but I thought they should know the reasons why I did not think it would be appropriate to call the book "Catholic Literature":
From: agunther@optonline.net
Subject: Crispin: The Cross of Lead
Date: June 19, 2005 11:53:47 PM EDT
To: help@whippersnapperbooks.com
Hello,
First of all, let me thank you for your excellent site and wonderful product line. It is great to be able to find so many Catholic books in one place, and I was pleased with most of the materials I received in my recent order. Still, I hope you will not mind if I take a moment to express some concerns about one of my purchases, "Crispin: The Cross of Lead" by Avi.
The book is engrossing and entertaining, but its overall message is not what I would call Catholic. In fact, it could have been subtitled, "A Young Man's Journey into Protestantism." At the beginning of the book, the boy is devoutly Catholic, but he is also desperately unhappy and extremely naive and confused about many things. After a harrowing experience and desperate escape, he meets Bear, a man who soon becomes a savior and father figure to him. As Crispin prays holding a treasured cross of lead, the only memento of his dead mother, Bear advises, "All these things . . . your cross, your prayers. As God is near--and surely He always is--you need no special words or objects to approach Him." He continues, "Crispin, as Jesus is my witness, churches, priests--they're all unneeded. The only cross you need is the one in your heart." (P. 113-14.) Crispin is shocked by this at first, but by the end of the book, he leaves the cross of lead behind and finally finds joy and a "newfound soul," realizing he is free of all obligations except to God Himself. (P. 295-97.)
I could go into more detail about this theme if you would like additional examples. Please email me (agunther@optonline.net) if a more specific account would be useful to you. There are a few other problems worth noting, including several instances of Bear taking Jesus' name in vain, even going so far as to swear "by the bowels of [Our Lord's Name]." Moreover, there are rather mature themes including illegitimacy and torture which might be difficult for unguided children. I had intended to give this book to my 11 and 9 year old daughters to read independently, but I am very glad I previewed it first.
Thank you very much.
Alice Gunther
*****
There were other problems with the book, but I did not want to drone too much in my email. For example, Crispin's real father, an evil and despicable man, is shown in a painting kneeling piously before the Virgin Mary. He is presented as a sharp contrast to "Bear," Crispin's new father figure, who teaches him to disavow sacramentals and that he has no obligations, except to God Himself. There is a kind priest character, but he gets killed off very early in the book and does nothing to alter the over-riding theme. The subtitle, "The Cross of Lead" is loaded with symbolism. The cross Crispin treasures is presented as something leaden and weighty--it is only when he sets it aside that he finds joy and freedom.
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Cay Gibson
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Excellent, Alice!
Just the info I was looking for..especially since this is the book I hold in my hands. I'm deeply engrossed in it and will probably finish it tonight.
I see threads running in the same direction as Karen Cushman's books. And I so want to find something positive in these books. As a Catholic adult, I can. But children will readily fall for the teachings inside just because the writing is so appealing.
Why! Oh, why! can't children's books be written today with a positive Catholic influence portrayed??? Must we go all the way back to Howard Pyle's books?
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Cay Gibson
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alicegunther
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| Just the info I was looking for..especially since this is the book I hold in my hands. I'm deeply engrossed in it and will probably finish it tonight. |
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I had the same experience, Cay and read the whole thing in one night, because I could not put it down. As a matter of fact, having purchased The Cross of Lead from a site dedicated to providing "Catholic Literature," I honestly did not set out to "preview" the book when I read it. Still, I think the Holy Spirit was with me, because the book would have been confusing to my children if left unguided. The good priest character does nothing to diminish the overall message of the book--if anything, he represents the "flawed" Church, doing a little bit to help people, but ultimately useless and vulnerable--excess baggage better off discarded.
My 11 year old daughter did read the book, with my permission and guidance. I knew she was mature enough to handle it under those circumstances, and I am trying to teach her to read critically and not to accept the message of books simply because they are labeled "Catholic Literature" or anything else. Frankly, if I had purchased this book through Amazon, I would have considered it a fair enough presentation of a world view other than my own, and I would not have written the book seller to complain. Having acquired it from a provider of "Catholic Literature" (and persuaded to do so by the seller's glowing and unreserved review), however, I was very disappointed.
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MacBeth
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What bugs me is that Avi, a Jew, is published when he writes such things. If I were to write a book in a Jewish cultural setting, and my hero stated that the synagogue was an unnecessary venue, that one could go anywhere on the Sabbath, that one needn't keep Kosher, and could ignore all dietary restrictions, that circumcision was an affectation...can you imagine how difficult it would be to get such a book published? And if published, there'd probably be some outcry, and not a Newbery Award.
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Kelly
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All very interesting. I've been seeing Avi books floating around for years, and as a devotee of historical fiction, I inevitably would find one in my hands. But somehow, I've always had a "sense" of all the things you mentioned. Several times, my dd has brought "Cross of Lead" to my attention, but just a quick skim concerned me---without having anything to pin my concerns ON. Meanwhile, suspicions aside, it was clear that the books were well-written, which made them doubly tempting! Not to say we won't ever read them,now,but we'll just be sure to procede with caution. So thank you, all, Alice, Cay et. al. for the specific comments.
And MacBeth, I couldn't agree with you more about the double-standard in children's literature. As William Donohue always says, Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. Be it subtle, or even accidental, it's still acceptable.
Kelly in FL
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MaryM
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Kelly wrote:
| But somehow, I've always had a "sense" of all the things you mentioned. |
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I would say I'm in the same boat as Kelly. Have looked at the Avi books for years and definitely tempted as my oldest son was a voracious historical fiction reader. I only skimmed a few of them, but just had a "sense" about them also - so we didn't read them. There is so much historical fiction that we didn't really feel a need to read them.
So this really brings me to a tangent topic on how Catholic faith is presented in newer books. Alice, I really appreciate you mentioning the Whippersnapper books site again. When it was mentioned before I didn't really look at the site thoroughly for some reason – or they have added a lot more materials since this spring. But, I had a chance to look now, and it has such an awesome mission as a resource for literature for Catholic families. I really appreciate what they are doing and there are wonderful books there - also many that are new to me that I want to see. The funny thing is though that I recently read a couple of the books that I see are listed there - that I have some questions/concerns about. Does anyone know more about the creators of the site and their criteria for selection (I read the description on selection they had on-line). Did you get a response to your letter addressing your concerns, Alice? Are these types of issues that they will address?
The two books that I recently read that I see are on that website are Brother Bartholomew and the Apple Grove and Across a Dark and Wild Sea. First of all I do have to say that both books are good and I wish I didn't also have an odd feeling about them. The Across a Dark and Wild Sea especially. It is about St. Columba (Columcille) of Ireland. It is a great living book and would be the basis for a solid unit study or lots of rabbit trails on Irish and Scottish history, monasteries, manuscripts, bookmaking, coracles, and uncial alphabet. But it is clearly a book that while about a Catholic saint is written not as a story of a Catholic saint - it’s a historical account (and one with a bit of revisionist history in its description of events and portrayal of the “Dark Ages” and I felt has subtle biases). Columcille is never referred to as saint in the story (although in the author’s note it is acknowledged that “the faithful call him a saint”)- there really is hardly mention of the "church" or faith or anything spiritual- definitely no reference to Catholic. There is reference to church schools, religious communities called monasteries, and members known as monks. Columcille is mentioned as a monk but what the story is about is his ability to read and write - transcribing writings in the "Dark Ages” and keeping literacy alive. The author does indicate that it was through monasteries that reading and writing were sustained.
The book also tells about St. Finnian but there is no mention of him also being a saint (not even in the author’s notes) and he is definitely portrayed negatively and as selfish in the book – I had a sense of the typical criticisms of the church keeping sacred writings away from the average person – not wanting to have a copy made of the psalter. The story of St Finnian and St. Columba is a complicated story – but if told from a Catholic view point it recognizes two sides to the story of Finnian and Columcille.
I was really excited to find the Brother Bartholomew and the Apple Grove book as it could have fit nicely into an apple unit I was working on. It still is somewhat secular in its presentation but does have spiritual and faith aspects in the story. You do get that these are spiritual men and it does have a virtuous message. But, I left the reading wondering if the author was implying that Brother Bartholomew came back as a deer after his death - it seemed that way to me. This possible allusion to reincarnation would make it not compatible with the Catholic faith which these monks are a part of. It just gave me a weird feeling.
Sometimes I think that monks and monasteries are attractive for authors to write about in that they focus on the gentleness, service, and community of the monks/monastery but there is little or no sense of faith and holiness in those that aren't written by someone who truly understands the faith.
Has anyone else read either of these books? What were your feelings? Don't you think it would be helpful to include disclaimers in book reviews about Catholic books that would better inform parents in making choices or in knowing what to expect?
I'm rambling. Then I wonder if I'm being too sensitive and critical.
alicegunther wrote:
| I am trying to teach her to read critically and not to accept the message of books simply because they are labeled "Catholic Literature" or anything else. Frankly, if I had purchased this book through Amazon, I would have considered it a fair enough presentation of a world view other than my own, and I would not have written the book seller to complain. Having acquired it from a provider of "Catholic Literature" (and persuaded to do so by the seller's glowing and unreserved review), however, I was very disappointed. |
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Just because they have an underlying Catholic element/character/theme doesn't necessarily make them "Catholic literature". What if books are basically worthy but there is also a subtle message that is in conflict with the faith or not completely accurate or presented from a world-view that isn't truly Catholic? Should they be presented as Catholic then?
I do think some books could cause confusion if unguided.
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alicegunther
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MaryM wrote:
| [QUOTE=Kelly] Does anyone know more about the creators of the site and their criteria for selection (I read the description on selection they had on-line). Did you get a response to your letter addressing your concerns, Alice? Are these types of issues that they will address? |
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I received a very gracious email from Whipper Snapper saying that they were reconsidering the language of their review of The Cross of Lead because of my email. Still, as far as I know, the original review stands without reservation. I haven't checked in a while though.
I hate to malign Whipper Snapper, but I was also a bit disappointed by some of the other books I purchased (I wrote my email to them before I'd read all the new books), including a book about Life in a Medieval Abbey that was written from a secular perspective with a few problematic passages. Again, if I'd purchased this book from Amazon, I would have been unfazed, but it was a bit disturbing considering the source.
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Kelly
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Mary, I haven't read either of the books you discussed, nor have I seen the "Life in a Medieval Abbey" book you mentioned, Alice, but I know exactly what you're talking about. We're so lucky to have this list, allowing us to bounce around questions and concerns---and goodness knows, after homeschooling for years and reading about 10,000 book lists, one DOES get a sense of which books are solid, and which books aren't. Even so,even with vigilance, questionable books slip thru the cracks. And such books could *definitely* cause confusion to the unguided. It's kind of scary.
I was actually just pondering this subject today when my 10 year old ds asked me if he could read...the book we all love to hate (for good reason)..."The Da Vinci Code". No way, bud. "Why not?" he wanted to know. Well, for starters, it's heretical, full of grammatical mistakes, manipulative AND historically inaccurate...and that's without going into detail! Of course, I'd never let a child read that book, but as my 10 year old said, "Then why do so many people love it and talk about it?" When push came to shove, I could only say, "Because most readers do not have a strong reading background, and so many have such a low standard these days that they just can't tell good literature from bad". If you've read what John Senior called "the thousand good books", not to mention the Great Books, dross like "Da Vinci Code" becomes laughable. But conveying these thoughts to The Great Unwashed---let alone a 10 year old "inquiring mind"---is a difficult task. If I had a nickel for all the people I've heard exclaiming over "Da Vinci Code", I'd be rich. Even my own relatives, thinking citizens that they are, drive me NUTS with their oohing and ahing over "Da Vinci Code"  GRRRR...but I digress.
Guess there's no moral here, just suspicion that our concerns over subtly-misleading "Catholic" kids literature touches on a much larger iceburg of misleading, confusion-begetting adult "lit" that prowls around the world, seeking the ruin and destruction of souls.
Kelly in FL
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Meredith
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alicegunther wrote:
| My 11 year old daughter did read the book, with my permission and guidance. I knew she was mature enough to handle it under those circumstances, and I am trying to teach her to read critically and not to accept the message of books simply because they are labeled "Catholic Literature" or anything else. |
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Alice, my question should probably be another thread here, but, could you elaborate on how you go about teaching critical reading skills or what type of method you use to help guide your daughter through this process. I know this is probably also an age required skill, or something that is gained with reading great literature, but what in this case?? I sure appreciate it. Thanks so much.
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Meredith
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Avi
