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Bookswithtea
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Kim F wrote:
| Incorporating Waldorf ideals in our home means slowing down and doing a few things well versus a lot of things in a rushed fashion. It is always hard for me to let things go but I think it has been an excellent approach to encourage focus and attention. They are digging deeper and they are calm. Unless I need to take a nap, but I digress.... <g> |
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This is really helpful. What did you let go in order to make more room for contemplation? I want to incorporate, but what I don't want to do is add things and make our schedule feel rushed. This is the first year where we have done more group based learning (kids 3 and 4 academic years apart makes it harder to do family based learning) and it is going well. I don't want to mess it up!
Kim F wrote:
| Handwork takes time. That isn't time wasted though and you must look beyond the finished product when evaluating whether it is worth that time. Many of the recommended activities are rhythmic, repetitive, and relaxing. They help a child (and his mother!) counter overstimulation and collect himself. Sticking with a given handwork project to completion requires that one follows directions, practices patience and fortitude, and pays attention to detail. Those are all core skills that only come with lots of application. |
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This is a really good point, and one I had not considered.
Kim F wrote:
| We tend to 'say' we understand education is not the filling of the bucket but it is very hard to stop pouring. : ) |
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This makes me sad, but I know its true. Some days are definitely better than others.
Kim F wrote:
| I have never tried to be pure anything but Catholic. I take what I see as helpful and edifying from various methodologies and leave whatever is not. You don't need gnomes to glean from Waldorf. Which is good, because I am not all that fond of the little critters. : ) |
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LOL. This about the gnomes made me giggle. 
But I am with you, in that I am comfortable gleaning from other methodologies and incorporating them into a Catholic home. Christians don't have to fear any ideology...God always trumps everything else.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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msclavel
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Elizabeth wrote:
Maria,
I only have second but I wanted to let you know that I read on your blog that you were considering buying the Christopherus 1 syllabus. I laughed out loud because that was the day I was cramming said syllabus down Nicholas' throat. We've since compromised with it (one of those big family compromises) and I do see how it will bless us. I tried to leave a comment but I don't think it ever went through... |
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So Elizabeth, were you trying to talk me down  ?Right now, the cost is going to keep from purchasing it.
Honestly it boils down to this is the first year that I have ever doubted that homeschooling all these children (with an overworked dh) is what I'm called to do.
Funny thing is, when I was in college, I worked for years at a teacher supply store. We had a small section of books on different educational philosophies. I remember thumbing through You are Your Child's First Teacher (Rahima Baldwin?) and buying it that day. It is of course all about Waldorf style learning and I remember thinking at the time, this is what learning at home should be.
I have more thoughts, but dinner beckons to be cooked.
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Erin
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I'm much, much more aware of art and handwork and making them integral to pretty much every lesson.I'm forcing myself not to skip the wonder of the little years. So often, in big families, we buy into the "trickle down" philosophy. But you know what? You can only be five once. And I want to make sure that the things that will seem "babyish" later (fairy tales and finger plays and such) happen for each child. They shouldn't miss it just because the rest of the family is studying something more advanced. Does that make sense? |
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Elizabeth
I'm very much with you on this point at present. For so long I have relied on the 'tickle down effect' and you know what? I've missed some wonderful moments with my younger ones that I got to share with the older children. I am busy trying to recapture that with this foray into Waldorf and a little home-made Montessori.
So on a practical note, would this translate to you perhaps achieving only one to two topic areas a day if you are taking the time to incorporate art into every lesson?
How are you achieving the balance between the older and the younger children? Are you expecting the older ones to be more independent so you can spend that time with the younger ones? Or do you have another way of harmonising?
Elizabeth wrote:
I'm also enjoying reading the thoughts of homeschoolers I've never heard before. Sometimes, we need a breath of fresh air, even if we only end up taking one or two ideas as our own.
Oak Meadow is good fit for Christian (high school) because it outlines things well for him and he is able to work independently. I gleaned a lot of ideas for the younger years, but I'm using very little as written. I'm just too much of a renegade to use any boxed curriculum and--you're right--it can be just like all the rest in some ways. |
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What sort of things do they outline for Christian? What would a Waldorf education espouse for a highschooler? I have been told by an irl friend who has the Oak Meadow curriculum that it is difficult for a large family as it breaks into grades and has each grade doing something different. Which I guess fits with their idea of development but if you are a multi-level family it doesn't work.
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Mary G
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Just a thought -- Waldorf (particularly as it applies to the home) seems to imply that children/families do little outside the school/home environment ... it's not structured activities like little league or ballet, but more being kids outside. How does this translate into American homes today?
In Austria and much of Europe where Waldorf schools are prevalent (or more than here), kids don't do the heavy activities that we do. A good friend of mine from SC, who lived in Germany and started her kids in a Waldorf school there (homeschooling is illegal in Germany!) continue to homeschool with heavy Waldorf overtones here, but her kids are pretty much home most of the time.
Also, another thought: Waldorf curricula really seem to fit with the climate and tradition of village-style Europe -- being inside where it's cozy, talking about gnomes and fairies, doing art and handwork -- all seem perfect around a cozy fire with tea/cocoa steaming away! I just can't imagine doing lots of inside art/craft projects in 100 degree weather!
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LisaR
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the waldorf school we would visit in MI though DID have a lovely garden, and a courtyard style school so it seemed as if the children were outside often- the sunflower tee pee homes, etc. However, I know what you mean- Waldorf does invoke a cozy image. Their classrooms were peaceful enough that I felt like I could curl up and take a nap- where with the montessori classrooms I sense more "sterile" I don;t know why....
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teachingmyown
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Watching this thread with cautious interest. I am trying hard here not to sway with the wind, but it does sound so appealing!
A question about Oak Meadow- how teacher intensive is it? I looked through their website and sample lesson plans. I like what I see. But I need the kids to be independent, at least some days. It isn't that I don't want to be involved, but I need them to be able to go on without me.
I am all for the "stay at home" mentality of Waldorf. I would rather be home, and for the most part, so would the kids. We have seasons where we are out more, but for the most part we are here.
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Wendy
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I'm with you, Molly. We are homebodies, for the most part. 
This thread has come at the perfect time. I was all set to stick to the MODG syllabi this year, but the last few days have produced tears in my sweet Sam.  I think he is overwhelmed by the number of subjects per day (8! for a 10 year old! When I counted them up, I felt overwhelmed!  ) He just started reading fluently this summer, and his fine motor skills have never been very good. Even though he can finally write legibly, more than a sentence or two a day is too much for him. He has always had a fantastic memory, and can tell you all about the Mariners' Museum and Jamestown (my parents took him this summer, and he *loved* it), but if you ask him a specific question about something you.just.read, his eyes glaze over. He gets distracted so easily, and would much rather be outside running around than answering discussion questions in the Baltimore Catechism.
And then there's Ben, who would draw and color all day long if he could... Grace would be happy with anything that included lots and lots of books. (That's my girl! ) And Maggie needs more attention than I can give her while I'm bouncing back and forth between the boys.
I have always wanted a gentle, CM-ish, liturgical year-celebrating, lots of beauty (music, art, nature) incorporated homeschool. Every so often we have that, but then I panic and reach for syllabi and textbooks. 
Those of you who are incorporating Waldorf elements, how does it work with 10yo boys? [she asks hopefully ]
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Rebecca
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I am using Oak Meadow syllabi this year with my 11 year old son (5th grade), my 7 year old son (2nd grade) and my preschool aged daughter (4 years old). We are not using it word by word as it is written but making adjustments to their recommendations to fit our family. I have found this really easy to do so far.
I do not have a big family (only four kids) but I could see using OM straight as it is written would be difficult if you have many school aged children who are not old enough to work independently. However, with a bit of tweaking, anything is possible.
I do have a very detailed schedule for the day but our day does not feel rushed at all. I compiled the schedule because I have a strong tendency to get distracted and to only do "essential work" which to me is Math and catechism. I really wanted to schedule in times for handcrafts and art. I cut out all outside activities during the day, except for a twice a month park date in the late afternoon. We do have several things scheduled in the evenings (two scout meetings) and on the weekends (fall ball times two). I have found that the kids are better behaved since we are staying home and are really looking forward to the things that are planned.
We do some things together like circle time, art, crafts, but each of my boys has an hour and fifteen minutes for a main lesson time with me each morning which is to work on things that are soley theirs. My oldest son is doing Botany, US History and Grammar with me during this time. We do not do all three of these each day, only one for the entire hour and fifteen minutes. He also spends time doing independent work which includes math, poetry, catechism and latin prayers for about forty five minutes on his own.
My younger son does only circle time (poetry, songs, fingerplays) and his main lesson hour with me. During his main lesson hour, we do language, math or catechism. He does not have independent work except to practice reading a bit in the afternoons. Our read alouds at night are animal stories that cover science without his knowing it. :)
My 4 yo. daughter does circle time, crafts and art as well as any read alouds that we might do.
I have a daily hand craft time in the afternoons and we work on art for forty five minutes in the morning. I bought my boys wood carving tools and one of them is also learning to knit. We have done some felt people as well during craft time.
Wendy, my 11 year old is has done his work cheerfully thus far and keeps asking "Is this really all I have to do?" every day. He has been through MODG, WTM and CM where there are many subjects and intense academics. He hated most of it. He looks forward to the subjects we are working on because he knows we will not be rushing through and spending only 15-20 minutes a subject. Some good conversations have arose from getting to know a subject intimately rather than chewing off a bite at a time.
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lapazfarm
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I have to chime in on the benefits of doing only a few subjects per day, especially in regards to boys like mine!
It works so well for us for many reasons, one being because there is so much less transition time, which is always hard for those easily distracted, like ds and me!Every subject change means having to rein ds back in and re-adjust, and that takes time. And when we tried doing more subjects per day it never felt like we could relax and enjoy learning because I was always prodding ds to hurry up and move to the next thing.
So we do about 4 subjects on average per day.Some days we may get to more, some days less, depending on how involved we get in things. And this is working beautifully. I get quality work from ds and he gets to relax and enjoy and dig deeply into subjects that interest him.
Win-win I say!
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JenniferS
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Wow, Rebecca. Thank you for giving us a glimpse of your day. I've been following this discussion with much interest, like Molly and Wendy. I'm intrigued by Oka Meadow, but I worry about the large famiily logitistics. I never seem to follow any syllabi very well anyway, so maybe I shouldn't worry much about that.
Wendy, I have a Sam that sounds a lot like your Sam!!!
Jen
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Kim F
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How does this translate into American homes today? What did you let go in order to make more room for contemplation? >>
Real quick here I will answer two q's. It translates here like it does in Germany I suspect. Our family used to run to ballteams and such for years though I never really relished that. We made major changes a few yrs ago and never looked back. We have one town day now and the kids do piano lessons and scouts (some of each at the same time) then. We have friends here one afternoon for preschool co-op. That's it. And it still feels like too much on those days. It is like turning the volume down on the radio. You don't realize how intense it is til it isn't there anymore.
For me - I let go of moms' nights, support group meetings, clubs, etc. I also mostly let go of internet groups as well which was harder truth be told. And I still wander back now and then obviously, mostly if someone tips me off on a cool thread like this one. Otherwise it is fulltime here making slow food, doing long slow projects, and following that steady routine that is ever threatened by the latest catastrophe.
Fwiw for years I was the one shaking my head saying Oh that's nice but it would NEVER work in MY family. Still, here we are and we wouldn't go back. Home is good.  I really can't seem to 'home'school and 'home'make when I am not 'home' most of the time.
Kim
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Kim F
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he is overwhelmed by the number of subjects per day (8! for a 10 year old! When I counted them up, I felt overwhelmed! >>
That happens to me too. Not to mention the sheer mess by day's end. If you have 4 students and they all have that many subjects you have carted out 32 sets of books that day. Mine don't cart back nearly as well as they cart OUT either.
Kim
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Elizabeth
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Well, letting go of ball teams would never work in my family. It would be like keeping the children of a musician from ever learning music. "Sports" is the language my husband speaks and it's what bonds him to his children. Even the girls play, though not competitively. They learn in our family and play with the family. The boys play very competitively because my husband firmly believes that if they are going to play, they should play at the best level they can. We're very involved with soccer and basketball (and a little football this season). The girls dance.
Though, when I look at what other families are doing, I don't think we're any more committed; there are just more of us in some cases. Every child plays one sport or they dance. In some cases teams and times are same place, same time, same team. It's beyond hard, actually. I have no help with driving--my dh is not off the air until after 7 during the week and he travels pretty much every weekend. I'm in the car an awful lot and I hate to drive.
I do no co-ops or moms' groups or scouts. There are no extra lessons outside the house except for sports and dance. Still, I leave home almost every day around 4.
My challenge is to find and keep rhythm when I'm here and to find time for the handwork and art that I do think are important. Mary Chris came over yesterday to teach me to knit. I'm hopeful that Mary Beth and I will be able to knit on the sidelines during warmups and between tournament games. I can see myself with a knitting basket along for all those times I'm waiting to pick someone up or drop them off.I'm a huge believer in books on tape and rosary CDs in the car.I do try to make the travel time valuable.
My rhythm is also interrupted by Gracie, the 3-year-old who is with us every day. her mom is a college student and her coming and going is different every day, sometimes different from week to week. I'm trying to find balance between being open to the outside world and being so set in my structure that I resist intrusions, even if they are good ones. I was all set to answer this post during Karoline's nap, for instance, but Emily came to get Gracie and Gracie didn't want to leave. Gracie pitched a fit. The dog barked. The baby is now awake, cranky and on my lap. And it's nearly tea time...So much for my carefully carved 15 minute 4Real time. Waldorf Kindergarten and preschool principles have been wonderful for Gracie and for my Katie. It's so easy to neglect mindfully being with the little ones when one is busy with a big family and lots of middle and high schoolers.Little doesn't last long and it's so rich and so beautiful. Waldorf really, really "gets" this concept. A good Waldorf teacher won't let you forget how important being little really is.
Long lesson blocks are working well. We're taking big gulps of Waldorf for some children and just little dips for others. Oak Meadow works beautifully for the middle school ages up because it is written directly to the child. I'm adding literature to the basic history/English syllabus. In Christian's case, I'm also adding Teaching Company videos.
I will always be a unit study person. It's what works here over the long haul. So, when I can, I combine everybody across the curriculum. Stephen is using the same nature stories that Rebecca's second grader is, but Nick listens in too. And we are all seriously getting into fairy tales a la Christopherus for the little and my own thing for the bigs.
Maria,I love the Christopherus First Grade Syllabus. The stories she provides for letters and for math are very clever and Nicholas does love them now. She weaves fairy tales into the letter quest story. Nicholas knows how to read but I wouldn't trade the look on his face as we "do" these stories for anything in the world.I've never "done" fairy tales with any of them. I see a lot of value for all of us,here, even though "Waldorfians" would truly frown at a Fairy Tale Main Lesson Block for a seventh grader. I'm going at Fairy Tales form a totally different angle for him.It's not Waldorf, per se, but it's working and they're learning.Waldorfians would frown at our sports schedule too. But I'm not married to Waldorf.
I totally love the main lesson block concept and I'm working to adapt this kind of a schedule for high school. We would do different subjects, but I like the block idea.
One of the strong suits of Waldorf pedagogy is the emphasis on the teachers doing their own inner work. Call it what you will, I think it's really important for us to constantly work towards improving ourselves and the world around us, particularly the world entrusted to us at home. I appreciate the reminders to do so that are woven throughout the Waldorf materials and I appreciate the Waldorf ideas that have prompted me to grow.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rebecca
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JenniferS wrote:
| I'm intrigued by Oka Meadow, but I worry about the large famiily logitistics. I never seem to follow any syllabi very well anyway, so maybe I shouldn't worry much about that. |
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You know, Jen, I don't know that it is so much the content of the Oak Meadow that is key but more the pace, the method and the encouragement to do the extras (handcrafts, poems, beautiful lesson books) which appeal to me. While I like their academic books (say the US History 5) and will use them for the entire year, you could substitute another book that you really like without buying theirs. However, do not let the cost on OM's site deter you if you are interested. I bought mine used and spent less than a third of what they cost new.
I do think the OM Heart of Learning and the Processes Manual are very valuable. They are more about the method and rhythm than the actual academic material. I bought a copy of each used and really use them quite a bit. There is a gentleness and kindness in their program and method that really spoke to me this year.
Elizabeth mentioned the Christopherus site and how much she has been inspired by their books They have the meat of the academics in their pages while also doing a wonderful job fleshing out the gentle methods for those of us who are relatively new to Waldorf. I really like what I have seen from them so far also, though I do not own many of their books. The folks at Christopherus are very friendly and accomodating to any questions you might have about their books. Melissa Wiley has many Waldorf posts that are excellent and well worth taking the time to read here. A number of them give great information on Donna Simmon's books. (Donna is the owner of Christopherus.)
I certainly think you could choose to do some language, math according to age, a science (whether that be zoology, botany, etc.) and just do them all well and slowly, leaving large blocks of time (say an hour or more) for each one without buying a single syllabus. We are doing history twice weekly, botany twice weekly and grammar once weekly for my eleven year old. That is plenty. He does his independent work each day which I mentioned in the above post.
So I guess what I am trying to say in my longwinded fashion is that even if you can't or don't want to invest in an entire Oak Meadow syllabus, you can still have a gentle year of learning by slowing the pace and leaving much time for the things that make life lovely.
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Rebecca
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Well, letting go of ball teams would never work in my family. It would be like keeping the children of a musician from ever learning music. "Sports" is the language my husband speaks and it's what bonds him to his children. |
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This is how things are in my family as well except that we have busy summers because my kids play baseball, baseball and more baseball. Our summers are busy but not our autumns. It works out OK here because by the time school rolls around, the only ball that is being played is on the weekend. Scouts don't start until 6 or 7pm and the meetings are five minutes away, two nights a week. Anyhow, having the days free has helped tremendously with having time to do the extras.
Today we scrapped it all and made concord grape jam (went grape picking last weekend) and all the kids did handcrafts. I have no guilt .
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JuliaT
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Well, I guess I am more easily swayed than Molly because I have just ordered the Oak Meadow Kindergarten curriculum for my youngest for next year.
I have known about Waldorf for awhile but it just seemed too New Age-y for me. But with all of the recent posts about Waldorf, my interest has been piqued. On one of my e-groups, someone mentioned OM so I decided to take a look. Oh, I was hooked. It just seemed such a calm, peaceful way to do K.
Our family has had a rough year. I am emotionally and physically drained. I am not a pre--packaged curriculum kind of girl, but I want someone else to make the decisions about what we are going to do for the day. Because OM concentrates more on the creative side of life for the primary grades, this is what clinched it for me.
I can see possibly using OM for the first three grades for my youngest, but the older grades deal mostly with Am. history (from what I can tell from the samples) and we are not American. So this wouldn't work for us. I was actually disappointed that I wouldn't be able to use this for my older kids. I guess they will just have to join in on some of the K activites.
Julia
mom to 3 (8,6,4)
http://www.homeschoolbogger.com/Juliainsk
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Willa
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Mary G wrote:
In Austria and much of Europe where Waldorf schools are prevalent (or more than here), kids don't do the heavy activities that we do. A good friend of mine from SC, who lived in Germany and started her kids in a Waldorf school there (homeschooling is illegal in Germany!) continue to homeschool with heavy Waldorf overtones here, but her kids are pretty much home most of the time. |
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Maybe that's why some parts of it appeal to me... we really don't do many outside activities. Lots of reasons -- immunesuppressed child, kids and I get carsick, the time and energy it takes for not much reward (in our opinion). Plus a wide age span for the children; most of the things we do together as a family are family-oriented, because there aren't that many formal activities that can extend to more than one or two children at a time.
I think you CAN do it in America, but it's against the mainstream. If we lived closer to town I'd probably be tempted by all the neat opportunities, but out here, just like it takes planning and effort to shop, it takes planning and effort and commitment to get involved in activities that are going to cost plenty in $$, driving time and energy.
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Willa
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Rebecca
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JuliaT wrote:
Our family has had a rough year. I am emotionally and physically drained. I am not a pre--packaged curriculum kind of girl, but I want someone else to make the decisions about what we are going to do for the day. Because OM concentrates more on the creative side of life for the primary grades, this is what clinched it for me.
I can see possibly using OM for the first three grades for my youngest, but the older grades deal mostly with Am. history (from what I can tell from the samples) and we are not American. So this wouldn't work for us. I was actually disappointed that I wouldn't be able to use this for my older kids. I guess they will just have to join in on some of the K activites. |
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Julia, I bought the OM for the same reason. I wanted something gently laid out that would give me a break from the huge batch of planning that I normally do. I just didn't have it in me this year and I SO needed a slower pace.
I also wanted to mention that OM sells the subjects separately but I am not sure at which grade that starts. My 5th grade son's history/grammar combined book is separate from the science and math book. That would make it easy for folks in other countries to substitue their own history in place of American.
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LisaR
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| Posted: Sept 21 2007 at 4:10pm | IP Logged
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daily sports is a part of our homeschool. isn't it interesting how we all can be so varied to meet the needs of our kids and families? I like what you mention, Elizabeth , about sports for you being like musical talent for another. I have to admit, I have felt "prejudiced against" (and I take full responsiblity for feeling that way- I'm probably just wwaaayyy too sensitive) by homeschooling families who have told me they think we do way too many/too much sports. But the funny thing to me is that some of them spend thousands per year/hours per day on group and individual suzuki music!!
I am SO glad for these postings re:Waldorf. I have consistently felt more drawn to Waldorf than CM or Montessori, for some reason the "pressure" is not there for me with Waldorf. Waldorf is "Rhythm of Life" to me sort of and that is what we already do with Liturgical year, seasonal studies, etc.
have to run to a soccer tournament,
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Sept 21 2007 at 5:31pm | IP Logged
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JuliaT wrote:
I can see possibly using OM for the first three grades for my youngest, but the older grades deal mostly with Am. history (from what I can tell from the samples) and we are not American. So this wouldn't work for us. I was actually disappointed that I wouldn't be able to use this for my older kids. I guess they will just have to join in on some of the K activites.
Julia
mom to 3 (8,6,4)
http://www.homeschoolbogger.com/Juliainsk |
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Julia,
By the time you need it, Christopherus will have a full curriculum for the older grades. And since it will follow a traditional Waldorf scope and sequence, it won't focus on American History at all.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Waldorf (
