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Eleanor
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| Posted: Aug 15 2007 at 2:41am | IP Logged
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I know there are a few ladies here (Andrea, Donna Marie, and maybe some others?) who have used a combination of RightStart and traditional Montessori math. If you don't mind, I would love to hear about your experiences.
We're just getting set to start Montessori math, and I'm planning to continue with it for as long as possible. RightStart is our main contender for a "fall-back plan," if I start getting overwhelmed at some point (be it five years from now, or next week  ). Since RS has some very distinctive features -- like the names of the numbers, and the whole visualizing with "5's" thing -- I'm wondering if it would make sense to introduce these concepts from the beginning, to avoid a "transition period" later. Besides, these concepts do seem to make a lot of sense, and it seems like they'd be most helpful for the littlest ones.
Would it be possible to use the Montessori primary materials, with some adaptation to include the RightStart ideas from the beginning?
Or would it make more sense to follow the RS curriculum, supplemented with Montessori manipulatives?
Or would either of the above just lead to unnecessary confusion?
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marianne
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| Posted: Aug 15 2007 at 7:55am | IP Logged
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Right Start is "different" from traditional math programs, but it's not so confusing that you need to start preparing them now, just in case you switch later. I'm switching my 3rd and 1st graders to RS, and we did the transition lessons this summer. It was NO big deal. In fact, I don't think the transition lessons were necessary, as long as you don't try and jump up a level or something. Both kids learned to count the new way easily, although with much rolling of eyes. We did have to get the hang of the abacus, but it didn't take long at all, and if you're starting with Montessori, they will catch on to it quick!
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AndreaG
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Woohoo! I finally figured out how to login to these forums on my new computer!
Anyway on to your questions Eleanor...
I have done both options you mentioned and overall I think montessori and RightStart go together quite wonderfully!
With my oldest (now 8) I use RightStart primarily and supplement with montessori materials and presentations as I get them ready. I love RightStart b/c it is basically all the great montessori manipulatives made easy and affordable (and with some recent research findings thrown in) and scheduled and scripted! Of course the scripted part could also be the downside, since it isn't as child-led as purist montessori would be.
With my 5 year-old I have done primarily montessori and am planning to add in RightStart this year and transition to using RightStart as the spine. I have tried to teach the "5's thing" to prepare him for Righstart, and we use the abacus for adding along with the montessori adding materials. I have also done some of the beginning games from the RightStart math games book.
My oldest didn't start with the RightStart way, I did montessori with him for preschool and Singapore (grades K and 1) for Kindergarten, but he was able to pick it up easily, in no small part b/c it is so montessori inspired. I do think it would be better to start from the beginning though. I love the visualizing 5's concept- I was thinking of making bead bars with the 5's a different color, like the RightStart abacus. Actually montessori does have the black and white bead bars (such as are used for remainders in the snake game), and I was considering making more. I will probably just use the abacus though.
I hope this makes some degree of sense!
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Eleanor
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| Posted: Aug 15 2007 at 3:45pm | IP Logged
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Thank you both for your help.  I'll keep RS on the agenda, but it sounds like we can put it off for a while if necessary. (Our new baby is due in 6 weeks... how time flies!)
Andrea, I was wondering about the bead material too. Right now, we only have one bead stair and a set of base 10 golden beads. I'm planning to make the rest of our "bead bars" out of wooden base 10 bars, cut to size and painted. I wonder if there would be a simple way to differentiate the 5's somehow, without interfering with the color scheme. Maybe polka dots? 
One more question. I filled in the questionnaire on the RightStart web site, and they said my daughter should start with level B. I don't understand this, since we haven't yet done any math at all.  Is it because she's already started doing basic reading? (I said that she was "advanced" based on her verbal skills, which are considerably ahead of average for her age.)
It looks like level A is optional, and both A and B start with the same basic material (counting, abacus, etc.)... so maybe it would be fine. But I just wanted to get some opinions. The last thing I want to do is put pressure on her.
Edited to add: We've decided it would be better to start with Level A, just to be on the safe side. With several children, I'm sure we'll get plenty of use out of it.
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AndreaG
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Level A covers the exact same material as the first half (or so) of level B. It just spreads it out and makes it easier for a younger child. Level B was written first, and then people started asking for a K book, so they came up with A. Some people skip A and just use B at a slower pace. I bought level A for my K'er b/c I would rather use something as scripted then have to slow it down myself. I also really recommend the math games book which isn't required until Level C but has a lot of good beginning math games.
I kind of like the polka dot idea! I suppose I could keep part of my colored bead bars colored and just add 5 grey beads to each. Here is what the
RighStart version of the golden beads/base 10 blocks looks like. The link is for cards but they also have 3-d cardboard versions. They tie- in to the abacus, which has 100 beads.
I think the 5 thing is the only major difference, otherwise montessori is a perfect preparation for RightStart.
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ozlouise
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We use RS Maths. As I was reading Montessori in the Classroom I was making the links between some of the maths activities and the way things are presented in RS. It was only recently that I turned my manual over to find that the author of RS is a former Montessori teacher in the 3-6 ages along with her other credentials.
Louise
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Eleanor
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| Posted: Aug 15 2007 at 11:35pm | IP Logged
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AndreaG wrote:
| Level A covers the exact same material as the first half (or so) of level B. It just spreads it out and makes it easier for a younger child. Level B was written first, and then people started asking for a K book, so they came up with A. |
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Thanks for the explanation! I wish they could have said something as clear as that on the web site.
Quote:
| I kind of like the polka dot idea! I suppose I could keep part of my colored bead bars colored and just add 5 grey beads to each. |
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Grey sounds like a good idea.
I was thinking there might be some advantage to using the Montessori color for 5 (light blue) for all the 5's, just as gold is used for the 10's. But maybe that would cause problems down the line? For instance, when the bars were chained together, it wouldn't be obvious where one bar left off, and the other began. Or maybe that wouldn't matter. (Argh, I feel like Barbie. "Math class is tough!" )
According to this article by Dr. Cotter's husband, she developed RS in part so that children wouldn't need to learn to associate colors with numbers (as they did with Cuisenaire rods). I was also interested to learn that her time as a Montessori teacher grew out of her quest to develop an excellent math curriculum. I would have guessed it to be the other way around. Her dedication to this subject is amazing!
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Eleanor
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| Posted: Aug 16 2007 at 9:26am | IP Logged
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Just wanted to share these links. They're taken from a presentation that Dr. Joan Cotter gave to the AMS, so she's discussing the RightStart method in a Montessori context.
AMS Enhancing Math March 2007 (PDF file)
Enhancing Montessori Math With Visualization (PowerPoint presentation)
There's some specific advice about materials, e.g., using two different colors of spindles for the spindle boxes. She doesn't say much about the bead stair and bead chains, though. (I guess she figured they were just an "extra," since RS teaches similar concepts with the abacus.)
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Meredith
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Thank you for these links Eleanor, great researching!! 
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Katie
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Sorry just seeing this now. I also use RS math with a five (well, six today!) yo and a 7yo. I used Level B with the 7yo faithfully and Level A sporadically and as a bit of a guide with the K'er. I throw in the Montessori manipulatives whenever possible instead of the cardstock RS ones, or add a presentation if it seems to fit (like the teens board when we started on the teens).
I would hesitate to use Level B with a 3yo, because though it starts out with counting and such, you are quickly adding numbers in the thousands and doing more complex things. You know your 3yo, though. I'm still working on talking with mine!!! We're a long way from Level A never mind Level B.
I do feel that it is very Montessori infused, though I think the abacus and the stress on fives and tens (so seven becomes five and two more etc.) is genius and has really helped my daughter understand numbers in a way she wasn't before (and we used lots of manipulatives). It isn't child-led, but I sort of needed that this year, as this particular dd will be at the local international school starting in September, so I wanted her to cover most of the first grade type things.
I' ve been very impressed with one of the simple things RS does. At the beginning of each lesson you do an oral part. Saying the days of the week, counting, skip counting. It's done very gently so that your child gradually, gradually learns to skip count by 2, then five, and learns the days of the week and the months of the year. I know they learn these anyhow at some point but I was surprised how a little tiny bit each day went such a long way. One of those light bulbs, you know!
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Eleanor
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Thank you to everyone. We've ordered the materials for levels A and B. I agree that B seems like a bit much for a 3-year-old!
I'm not sure yet how we're going to combine the programs, but I guess that will become clear as time goes on. One of the benefits will be that my husband can help out with the children's math education (which he's always wanted to do), without having to learn how to do Montessori presentations (which he has little interest in doing). The children always seem to "catch" their dad's enthusiasm for things... it's a real blessing.
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happymama
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Eleanor, I just read this thread - I've been trying desperately to figure out what math program to use for 1st & 2nd grades, and I think this last point you made about dh's involvement helped me make up my mind!!! My dh just doesn't "get" the Montessori presentations, at least yet... But the guy LOVES math, and I love the idea of occasionally opening the teacher's manual and say, "dear, can you do this page with the boys?!" and handing him the box of manipulatives! thanks!
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Combining RightStart and Montessori math
