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Rachel May
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Pride is, of course, one of the 7 Deadly Sins. The virtue to combat pride is true humility. Many lesser vices have roots in pride, and by fighting pride, we are fighting the disease rather than the symptoms, IMHO. But if we scrape out sin looking especially for the roots in pride, then we are like doctors cleaning the body of cancer taking care that we get it all (an analogy I heard in Fr. Larry Richards’ Confession tape).
Here are some quotes that I thought of while reading the chaper. This first is a good reminder of where pride leads us.
But his doom
Reserv'd him to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witness'd huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and stedfast hate:
At once as far as Angels kenn he views
The dismal Situation waste and wilde,
A Dungeon horrible, on all sides round
As one great Furnace flam'd, yet from those flames
No light, but rather darkness visible
Serv'd only to discover sights of woe,
Regions of sorrow, doleful shades, where peace
And rest can never dwell, hope never comes
That comes to all; but torture without end
Still urges, and a fiery Deluge, fed
With ever-burning Sulphur unconsum'd:
Such place Eternal Justice had prepar'd
For those rebellious, here their Prison ordain'd
In utter darkness, and their portion set
As far remov'd from God and light of Heav'n
As from the Center thrice to th' utmost Pole.
O how unlike the place from whence they fell!
John Milton, Paradise Lost, Book 1
And I thought this was a good reflection on the source of pride:
"Pride is an admission of weakness; it secretly fears all competition and dreads all rivals."
--Fulton John Sheen
Bible links coming. 
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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Rachel May
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1 Peter 5:5-6
Proverbs 11:2
Sirach 11:12-13
Matthew 11:29
Matthew 18:1-5
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Rachel
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Rachel May
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A couple of questions:
What minor vices do you see as having sources in pride?
Are there certain situations that you find are more prone to tempt you to pride?
Which saints or people are your favorite examples of humility, and what do they do that we can emmulate?
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Rachel
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momwise
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Rachel May wrote:
| Many lesser vices have roots in pride, and by fighting pride, we are fighting the disease rather than the symptoms, IMHO |
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In the chapter, humility is likened to the Rosary chain which holds the beads (virtues) together, but when broken all the beads fall off and are no longer connected.
One vice I can think of right off hand is impatience. So many times it is rooted in pride. For instance I have a bad temper for store lines, which as I was reminded by a very good priest-speaker, is nothing more than my belief that what I have to do is more important than the needs of everyone else in line. A good practice to counter this while in line is to say "Who am I, that I must be first through line?" Or to pray for each person ahead, saying "Who am I that my needs are greater than hers?"
The Something You Might Try suggestion according to St. Francis is great: " 'We can boast of our humiliations and in taking up the daily cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ' ... Take a moment to think of everything you're proud of about yourself and your life. Then ask yourself whether you'd have any of this without God's permission and aid."
I also think St. Therese is a great model, for her way of holiness is rooted in her littleness. St. Martin de Porres is also a good example of this. These saints aspired to imitate Christ by taking the lowest position (and somebody has to be low in order to bring Christ's light there right--for instance St. Teresa Benedicta/Edith Stein offered her imprisonment for the Jewish people?).
Thanks for the links and questions Rachel. My book is due back at the end of the week, so I plan to read as many more chapters as possible this week. This is one book I plan to order.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Rachel May
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momwise wrote:
In the chapter, humility is likened to the Rosary chain which holds the beads (virtues) together, but when broken all the beads fall off and are no longer connected.
One vice I can think of right off hand is impatience. |
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Oh, my goodness, you have so many great insights! I love that rosary analogy. It clearly shows how important humility is, and how destructive pride is. How many broken rosaries have to fall on a marble church floor to teach that lesson?
I agree about impatience. I think the first chapter I read was anger or irritation, and I realized that most of the time my anger, irritatation, and impatience are forms of my saying, "My way is the best and only way. Hike up your skirt and move on." I would love to model humility in the dramatic way my anger and impatience are modeled so that my kids would learn that instead.
I have also been mulling over vanity, and its links to pride lately (as I'm noticing some wrinkles). I'm starting to wonder if there are vices that aren't linked to pride.
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Rachel
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Rachel May
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Angie Mc wrote:
...
Here's my gut feeling on the whole thing. I wish there wasn't a real/perceived need for separating teens into their own Mass. I'm concerned that this feeds into the teen inclination to be self-focused, as in "I need a Mass for me, one that fits my wants and style. I'm separate from my family. I'm really different from others."
Having said this, self-focus is alive and well at the Masses of our parish mostly comprised of retirees. They, too, want "their" Masses and want families and teens relegated to "their" Masses. They want to sing what they want to sing, be Eucharistic Ministers even when they aren't needed, on and on.
The challenge, as I see it, is to help everyone in the pews to focus on Christ and to help everyone who serves the Mass to become transparent so that Christ can be seen through them. This seems straight forward enough but I do see the challenge of this with so many of us well intentioned but self-focused humans  .....
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I saw this on the Lifeteen Mass thread and it immediately made me think of this paragraph that I read last night in My Daily Bread:
"Even if I do not show it [a sense of superiority over others], God sees my pride and hates it, because pride is based on false self-esteem."--Chp 66
When I was in elem school, we had a class called "Project Self-Esteem" every few weeks, and the idea of self esteem is still alive and well in schools and popular consciousness.
But how often is it this false sense of self esteem, the one where everyone is awarded whether or not they acheive or everyone's choice is accepted even though the choice itself is objectively morally wrong?
This can be a real issue with homeschooling too, as we can design a curriculum for a child's "success" without real challenges. I sometimes wonder if I always make the teaching method the one by which he learns best, am I doing him a disservice by making him think that everything should be tailored to him?
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Rachel
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momwise
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My book's overdue but I'm not going to run it over to the library until tomorrow.
Anybody into another chapter?
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Willa
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momwise wrote:
| In the chapter, humility is likened to the Rosary chain which holds the beads (virtues) together, but when broken all the beads fall off and are no longer connected. |
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I like that. I find almost all my faults come from pride in some way.
For example, sloth and discouragement.... I used to talk about this with my oldest son quite a bit. We both tended to get discouraged when we didn't measure up to our standards, and then beat up on ourselves. Perfectionism, wanting to do it RIGHT, but basically not for reasons of humility or love but so we could feel good about ourselves. Rather subtle, but definitely there -- we could THINK it was humility but it was really reverse pride. I think the fruits tell us the difference. It's really humility when we work faithfully and simply like children holding their mother's hand on a rough road; it's pride when we fall on one side or another, and weep, and have trouble pulling ourselves back up because we won't grasp that outstretched hand.
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Willa
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Willa
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I can extend mine.... I want to buy the book when I can afford it. I'm up for another chapter or two!
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Willa
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Willa
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Rachel May wrote:
| Are there certain situations that you find are more prone to tempt you to pride? |
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I have a very hard time keeping the balance with my homeschooling. I compare too much. I either feel smug, or I feel bad looking at how much better everyone else is doing. I have to keep my eyes on the prize, but it's not easy.
I think it's because I really care so much about how my kids and my marriage turn out. The only thing I've REALLY been so invested in, in all my life. I have to keep struggling to purify my hopes and aspirations for my kids and our future life -- think in terms of them and their eternal welfare, and not how things "look" on the outside or what I can prove to the doubting relatives, that kind of thing.
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Willa
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momwise
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WJFR wrote:
| We both tended to get discouraged when we didn't measure up to our standards, and then beat up on ourselves. Perfectionism, wanting to do it RIGHT, but basically not for reasons of humility or love but so we could feel good about ourselves. Rather subtle, but definitely there -- |
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Good connection!!......and what about when I look at my dc's faults and want to help them correct them for the sake of my image (instead of the good of their souls)??
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Rachel May
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wjfr wrote:
| I think it's because I really care so much about how my kids and my marriage turn out. The only thing I've REALLY been so invested in, in all my life. I have to keep struggling to purify my hopes and aspirations for my kids and our future life -- think in terms of them and their eternal welfare, and not how things "look" on the outside or what I can prove to the doubting relatives, that kind of thing. |
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I feel similar. I always worried about a lifetime marriage commitment because before my marriage, I never found anything that I cared about enough to commit to for a long period of time. Now with my marriage and with homeschooling, I really don’t want to fail. I really want to do my best and not get tired and give up. And when things are hard and I get discouraged, my pride definitely gets in my way and has me beating myself up over the fact that I couldn’t keep things “perfect.” As if that were possible or even something desirable.
My problem though is that the doubting relative is my husband, so I keep focusing on proving to him that homeschooling is right and letting myself lose focus of the eternal goal.
momwise wrote:
| and what about when I look at my dc's faults and want to help them correct them for the sake of my image (instead of the good of their souls)?? |
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Aaaaaah! I’m there too. Sometimes the nice clothes and clean faces for going out are at least as much a matter of pride as trying to witness about the joys of a big family. And compliments are both uplifting and smugness inspiring. 
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| I'm up for another chapter or two! |
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Great! Pick one and start a thread if you want to get it moving. Or we can make suggestions again, but I haven’t found a bad chapter yet. There is a second book too if we stay interested.
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Saintly Solutions--Pride
