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Erin
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I need advice, I need your collective wisdom 
A dear friend (df) and I were having a discussion recently on the importance of praying together as a family. A conversation that was not completed and left me with questions and not conclusions.
Our conversation was on the importance of family prayer. My contention was that it was important for families to pray together daily. I was thinking the rosary as one idea, but quite happy with alternatives also such as the divine office, bible readings or a family's own collection of prayers.
Df had issues with my stress on the importance of daily family prayer. When I dug deeper for understanding and reasonings I discovered a couple of interesting issues. Df objects to the saying "the family that prayers together, stayes together'. Df found that a lousy reason for praying, well I can agree with that, that's not a reason for prayer but unfortunatly a saying that has been forced upon df by a family member and has backfired, as this family is not a good example of success in many areas.
Df particulary has an aversion to the family rosary due to some bad examples. Df has stayed with families that are really strict in enforcing the family rosary (littlies kneeling for a LONG time etc) and families that can be quite irreverently praying. Df's believe is that these families/children are really rote praying and the parents are forcing the children. Whilst I can see some of this (and I don't know if I've explained myself well here) I was also trying to describe to df that sometimes as parents we have to form good habits for our children and someitmes it can involve some form of rote until the child's heart is 'caught'. I didn't feel that I explained it well. How would you explain this better?
Df feels that prayer should be from the heart, really meant, I agree, but with children or even ourselves sometimes through the dry periods sometimes it could involve more rote than heart. Btw df doesn't have a problem with rote prayers as such. It really doesn't help that df and I couldn't think of any mutual friends who prayed the rosary frequently have had their children or rather all of their children continue to practise once they have reached adulthood.
I'd love some feedback from you on this. I'm seldom lost for words  but I'm stuck here, I guess its one of those beliefs that you don't often have to form into words it just is.
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Erin
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Christine
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Erin,
I don't have a lot of time, but my family grew up praying the Rosary each night and whenever we drove any distance in the car. It brought the prayers closer to my heart and gave me a deeper understanding of my faith and of Mary's role in history. It helped me to know when one of my Catholic school teachers taught erroneously. Today, my family and I pray the Rosary each night. I also find myself saying an Our Father, Hail Mary, or Memorare (this is one of the prayers that we used to say after the Rosary when I was young) occasionally during my day.
"The Christian family passes on the faith when parents teach their children to pray and when they pray with them" (cf. Familiaris Consortio, p. 60) Pope Benedict XVI quoted this line in Valencia, Spain this past weekend.
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Christine
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lapazfarm
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Interesting topic.
My dh is reluctant to pray the Rosary. He is a cradle Catholic from very loving, devout (very Marian, Opus Dei) parents who really pushed the Rosary growing up and he feels this is the cause of his reluctance. He has six siblings and some of them love the Rosary and some are more like him.
I grew up in an agnostic home and am a convert. I pray the rosary on occasion but it is not my favorite prayer.
So, not sure whether there is a strong correlation between parents devotion to the Rosary and devotion in their grown children.
I have never liked the "family that prays together..." saying much either. Not sure why, but perhaps because it is so overused it has become cliche.
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Cay Gibson
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Erin,
It's important for your friend to remember that there are other forms of prayer out there and that everything we do should be a form of prayer. Our life should be a prayer. Studying St. Ignatius will give your friend a clearer understanding of the life of prayer.
Rote prayers at night do not ensure family love and preservation. What ensures this are all the little things done throughout the day in a little way but offered up with great love .
There is nothing wrong in rote prayers but they are such a small part of the overall "life of prayer". I agree with you, Erin, that rote prayers are important for children to learn because, during our dry periods, these prayers (and Scripture verses) are the words we are able to grasp like straws in the wind. But rote prayers (and even the Rosary) do not make the whole straw stack.
There is no right or wrong form of prayer...for families or for individuals. It is whichever form is comfortable for you (your family), whichever prayer form brings you all closer to God.
Journaling is a form of prayer. Ask your friend if she or her dh has ever left a note on their child(ren)'s pillow, telling the child how proud they are, how much they love him/her, wishing them well on a test, telling him/her that they'll be praying at test time. That is a form of prayer.
Music is a form of prayer.
Meditation (simply listening to some religious music or chants and focusing/contemplating a part of Jesus' life is a form of prayer)
A Nature Walk---observing and appreciating nature---is a form of prayer!!! (I'm sure the members of KIC would call me a heretic on this one  , but I have St. Ignatius to back me up)---this would be a great thing for a family to do together.
I have always had difficulty "getting into the rosary" by myself. I can do it easily with a group, but by myself is hard. I think it was St. Therese who also struggled with this. I usually do one decade while showering or getting ready for the day. The children and I sometimes start the day off with a decade. I also do a decade if I'm in the car by myself and at weekly Adoration. But, what works best for me, is simply popping a rosary DVD into the player and listening...simply listening to the beautiful music, contemplating and meditating on the mysteries, relaxing, and breathing. (My favorite is Donna Cori Gibson's music)
Going to Mass together as a family is
always a form of praying as a family...the BIGGEST!
Guided Meditations are one of my favorite forms of prayer.
Touching someone in a loving, reverent manner can be a prayer and form of spiritual healing.
If you have an atrium or prayer corner set up in the house, using the CGS (especially Moira Farrell's albums if you don't know where to begin) is a form of prayer. Dad can do the presentations with the children as well as Mom.
Doing a family examination of consciousness at night is a prayer.
Asking a child or spouse for forgiveness is a form of prayer.
Viewing and discussing religious artwork together is a form of prayer.
Perhaps your friend can get her family to light a candle in the church after Mass and pray for a deceased loved one. Perhaps her whole family would embrace this practice.
And, my personal favorite, is spiritual reading as a form of prayer. (This works best for me) Even reading the books from Catholic Mosaic with one's children can be a form of prayer.
Forms of Ignatian Prayer:
Rote
Novenas
Rosary
Appreciation and Observation of nature
Stations of the Cross
Spiritual Reading
Music
Mass
Adoration
Visit to a cemetery
Exclamations of Praise
Centering Prayer
Scripture Imaginative Visualization (placing ourselves inside a Biblical scene)
Review your life and journaling
Poetry
Lectio Divina (divine reading)
Examen (examination of conscience)
I think some children resist family prayer time because we don't make it beautiful enough for them. Where are the candles and the music and the joining of hands in little acts of servitude?
As long as the act (no matter how little it is) is done with great love and offered up...it is a prayer.
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Cay Gibson
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Meredith
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:04am | IP Logged
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I really like how Elizabeth explains her prayer life in this post. This really hit home for me
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Dawnie
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Here are some of my thoughts on the importance of family prayer...
My kids are all pretty young, and so they don't all participate as fully as an adult can. My oldest knows the prayers of the Rosary, and she sometimes joins in, but not always. My next oldest (my 4yod), knows parts of some of the prayers. She loves to narrate the mysteries of the Rosary, especially the Assumption. My 2yod mostly plays during prayer time. Right now, I'm trying to provide them with a good example, and I hope that they will want to imitate it more as they grow older. Even if they don't participate right now, I believe that the prayers I am saying for our family and for each my children strengthen them. Rita Munn, over at CHC, likens a parent's prayers for their children to strengthening a fortress around the child's heart. I like that analogy.
I also try to encourage my dc spontaneous efforts to pray throughout the day. When an ambulance or fire truck goes by, we say a Hail Mary. When we say our before meal prayers, often one of my daughters will ask to say a Hail Mary for some special intention. My 4yod has been praying in this way for months for the soul of one of my dh's friends who died this past winter.
Maybe b/c I'm a convert, I have a different perspective on the saying "the family that prays together, stays together." Maybe I haven't heard it enough for it to seem like a cliche?  I am a child of divorced parents. My family NEVER prayed together. My parent's divorce has really fractured our whole family, and it's a source of great pain for me. Now, I wouldn't reduce my parent's problems to simply not praying together, but I'm HOPING that by praying with my own family, we will be doing something to help us avoid the problems my parents had. I know there are other things to do, too, to strengthen and maintain my marriage, but I feel that prayer is an important starting point.
Not sure if that answers your questions, Erin, but that's my perspective.
Dawn
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ALmom
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I think there is a difference in setting the example and being realistic about the capabilities of the child and forcing a child to kneel for the rosary for long periods of time. We have pictures, try to include dc, take our time with the prayers so that the littles can be a part. Other folks laugh at how long it takes us to begin and then pray one short decade. If we pray stations - then we incorporate a lot of moving around, carrying the crucifix and candles from station to station. In the rosary, we may pause and talk about a mystery for a while and allow each child to chose to lead one mystery (if they so desire - the toddler usually wants to and we have him lead with help). We don't get to praying the rosary every single night - but we generally do at least pray the rosary for the Holy Father on Sundays - and our goal is to gradually increase the time to every night. We always pray morning and night prayers that include all the concerns of every member of the family . Meal prayers are prayed together and we have tried to remember the Angelus (we do when we have a really good schedule). We try to turn little moments in the day into prayers - a scraped knee becomes an offering to Jesus - even while mom cleans and puts a bandaid on. So, sometimes the key is short and sweet according to the child's attention span. The rosary is a longer prayer which we do try to pray together. However, when the littles have reached the limit, they are free to wander off and play quietly or fall asleep. Just as at Mass, I do not force my under 4 year olds to do all the standing and kneeling and reciting, but they are there, participating to the best of their ability and God is generous in his showering of graces on these little innocent hearts who come to him. I find myself often asking my youngest to pray for me - and his little heart is so responsive. Yet, I really need his prayers! I guess I always feel there is something so precious in the prayers of the innocent (something I have long since ceased to be) so I think my dc prayers are essential for my salvation as well.
I am learning to meditate from beginning simply with my dc because I never had family prayer outside of Mass growing up (neither did my dh) so we are trying to forge a new experience in our family and are learning together. There is something sad in missing the practice of turning all over to God in prayer as a habit - isn't that virtue - holy habits. I think we must guide our dc as they are not going to learn this from the world. If they develop the habit of the family taking every decision to God in prayer, they will learn to do likewise - looking first to God's will in all things. But we guide gently, always mindful that our dc are dc and not miniature adults.
Janet
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MicheleQ
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I do think family prayer is important. But like Cay wrote so beautifully, prayer has many forms. Your friend is right of course in that it must be from the heart but saying something by rote doesn't mean it isn't from the heart and for some poeple rote prayer is in fact the very means to heartfelt prayer. . . even if it isn't "felt" sometimes.
As a family we usually have a short prayer time before we begin lessons but recently we have also begun night prayer. We use the liturgy of the hours and I just posted on my blog about a lovely resource I found this past weekend.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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aussieannie
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The rosary is such a special way of praying, a powerful way of praying, that it is worth exploring different ways to make it work for the individual needs of a family. (Even while saying it, I know that it still might not work for everyone, but for any in 'two-minds' over it, I thought I would share my thoughts.)
When you read books like 'The Secret of the Rosary' by St Louis De Monfort, it really is expressed well, those reasons, I read some of the little stories or exerpts from them to the children, to inspire them, they love those stories, (each Hail Mary said cast out so many devils from the possessed like black coals - a Hail Mary well said dresses Our Mother beautifully, one poorly said, gives her rags to wear, all great imagery!) it is good for them to hear them, they will remember them when they need to remember them - later in life.
Maybe many have already seen/have or know of this book, Rosary Book - Joyful Mysteries(when you click on, it will take a minute to build up, but it is worth it!) This beautiful, colourful, illumination manuscript illustrations, "4Real-type" book is perfect for families - we have it and the children love it! (Me too! ) it is ENORMOUS, so everyone can see it - the down side is, only the joyful mysteries are released at present, I emailed them a few weeks ago and they said that the rest would be released, within a year hopefully.
The rosary is diverse and deep - it enables us to reflect on the important events of the Bible everyday, we say the Our Father 6 times, the Hail Mary 53 times, and the Glory be 6 times as well as the apostles creed - WOW! The basis of our faith is in all that!
I remember telling my children once that if they said their rosary every day, by the time they are in their 60-70's they would have, on their death bed, be assured that they had asked Our Lady over a million times in their life for her to pray for them at the 'hour of their death'.
The rosary has a structure/skeleton that it is rhythmic and meaningful, we have our own beads to physically finger our way through. The soul or flesh of the rosary is as deep and as wide as you wish it to be - but we all know that to be successful in apostolic work (homeschooling is that) we ought to have 20mins meditation, if we did this properly in our rosary time, it would be done.
The rosary meets us where we are at, the mediation is really up to us and because of that it truly is a family prayer - everyone can participate and reflect to their own level.
I have never had the concept of notebooking in my life, but I did have the children make their own 'rosary books' photocoping Fr Fox's children's rosary pictures for them to colour and decorate paste on coloured cardboard and staple together as a book they had their own write up of intentions and reflective thoughts for the mystery - it could be a great activity to help get children into the rosary.
The other thing I have done is scanned all the beautiful old masters paintings from Seton books and printed them up A4 size, a picture for each mystery and for all Joyful/Sorrowful/Luminous/Glorious - I have three of these books made up so the children can swap around at each rosary.
I think it would be good for a new thread to start for women to discuss what lovely ideas they have for saying the rosary - what they do in making it meaningful for their children, for if we CAN do that, we hope then, to ingrain a lifetime love for it. (I can relate to the comment of 'bad memories' from childhood in regard to saying it - it took me a bit to work through it myself, but it was there for me to turn to again because it WAS said through childhood.) I would love to keep trying to get the balance right - said daily but in a way the children will always have happy memories of. This is where I would love to hear other women's ideas because I would like to grow and develop that 'special family time' by other people's inspirations.
The rosary is such a complete prayer and it is a family tradition, a church tradition and ancient tradition and all our intentions and hopes are poured into it - what a beautiful thing it is!
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Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
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aussieannie
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MicheleQ wrote:
| As a family we usually have a short prayer time before we begin lessons but recently we have also begun night prayer. We use the liturgy of the hours and I just posted on my blog about a lovely resource I found this past weekend. |
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This is lovely Michelle, I would like to buy that one soon, I hope. It is published by the same people who sell the Joyful Mysteries book I mentioned above, they have a website, Patmos.
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Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
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MicheleQ
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aussieannie wrote:
| This is lovely Michelle, I would like to buy that one soon, I hope. It is published by the same people who sell the Joyful Mysteries book I mentioned above, they have a website, Patmos. |
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Has anyone seen thier Child's Missal? It looks lovely as well and I'm thinking of buying it (before my Amazon Prime trial membership is up and I have to start paying for 2 day shipping again ).
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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aussieannie
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MicheleQ wrote:
| Has anyone seen thier Child's Missal? It looks lovely as well and I'm thinking of buying it |
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.....That one too!! All these lovely books.
What I like about their website is you can download a good-sized sample of what is inside - I am sure that has been added only recently - with their Rosary Book it is essential, because inside is such a lovely surprise and there is no indication of that 'format' from the front cover, except to say what is on the front cover is a full paged (and THAT's big!) picture of the picture that corresponds with the mystery about to start. (I don't think I've worded that well  sorry, hope you understand what I mean! )
When you think of Cay's words:
Cay Gibson wrote:
Going to Mass together as a family is
always a form of praying as a family...the BIGGEST! |
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That missal is just so '4Real' once again, for the children!
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Under Her Starry Mantle
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Christine
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MicheleQ wrote:
Has anyone seen their Child's Missal? It looks lovely as well and I'm thinking of buying it (before my Amazon Prime trial membership is up and I have to start paying for 2 day shipping again ).
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We have several of the Patmos books, including A Child's Missal. The pictures are beautiful. It is based on the "Traditional Roman Rite". It contains both photos and illustrations with short little expanations, exclamations, instructions, etc. to go with the various pictures. It relates what Christ did to the Mass. Each part of the Mass is clearly labeled. Even if you do not attend a Tridentine or Dominican Rite Mass, I still believe that this books is worthwhile.
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Christine
Mommy to 4 girls, 5 boys, & 2 in God's care
Memories of a Catholic Wife and Mother
Pretty Lilla Rose
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jdostalik
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This Child's Missal looks lovely! I just got the greatest idea for a gift for my goddaughter who receives her First Holy Communion in a few weeks!  Thanks for the reviews!
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God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
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momwise
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Erin wrote:
| Df feels that prayer should be from the heart, really meant, I agree, but with children or even ourselves sometimes through the dry periods sometimes it could involve more rote than heart. Btw df doesn't have a problem with rote prayers as such. |
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There are really 2 truths here. All prayer should be from the heart (not to be confused with "feeling it") and rote prayer can be a tremendous aid to praying in "dry times."
St. Ignatius said A) all souls who are progressing in holiness will be tempted to stop following their spiritual resolutions and B) whatever resolution to pray (or any spiritual practice) was made when not in a time of spiritual desolation should always be continued in a period of desolation or "dryness."
So, to teach our children first that through their lives they will not always feel like praying but to continue to do so can be "from the heart" even when it feels like God is not there is a very valuable lesson.
Having said that, the Church encourages devotion to the Rosary but it is not part of the official prayer of the Church (if that's incorrect, someone help me out). So although we continue to pray the Rosary here several times a week, I have "tweaked" it many times to fit my family's needs. Right now we pray one decade a day from a Scriptural Rosary book and on feasts and holy days of Jesus and the Apostles, I will "make up" a mystery from the day's Gospel reading.
It's funny though...although like you Erin I can't think of a family where all the dc have continued to love the Rosary as adults, many people I've talked to who said the Rosary on a regular basis with their family as a child have credited that in part with helping them keep/come back to the faith.
However, the Liturgy of the Hours mentioned here is a part of the Church's official prayers and the Church encourages all groups who meet throughout the day or evening to incorporate it into their meetings and gatherings; this would certainly include the family. I have been inserting Night Prayers little by little into our night prayertime to cooperate with this and I can't say that over time that does not also produce glassy eyed children who are just reciting what they've memorized. OTOH, children are not monks so aids like the books Michelle mentioned are fantastic for use with families as are coloring sheets, song, chants, etc.
I would encourage your df to forget about what she's seen in other families and pray about to what prayers God would like her family to be devoted and then how to best pray those (what resources to use, times of day, etc.) Then if she sees problems in her family she can work with tayloring things to work for them.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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MicheleQ
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momwise wrote:
the Church encourages devotion to the Rosary but it is not part of the official prayer of the Church. So although we continue to pray the Rosary here several times a week, I have "tweaked" it many times to fit my family's needs.
However, the Liturgy of the Hours mentioned here is a part of the Church's official prayers and the Church encourages all groups who meet throughout the day or evening to incorporate it into their meetings and gatherings; this would certainly include the family. |
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Indeed it does. Here's a quote from the General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours:
". . .it is of great advantage for the family, the domestic sanctuary of the Church, not only to pray together to God but also to celebrate some parts of the liturgy of the hours as occasion offers, in order to enter more deeply into the life of the Church."
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Meredith
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Dawnie wrote:
Right now, I'm trying to provide them with a good example, and I hope that they will want to imitate it more as they grow older. Even if they don't participate right now, I believe that the prayers I am saying for our family and for each my children strengthen them. Rita Munn, over at CHC, likens a parent's prayers for their children to strengthening a fortress around the child's heart. I like that analogy.
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I totally agree with this idea too, and love the analogy!! My ds 4 at age 2 1/2 could recite the entire St. Michael prayer, and he truly likes to say it even today, it's one of his favorites and he really likes the idea of this fierce angel fighting for our salvation and defeating the devil.
It's truly all about modeling and not forcing, they will get it in their own time for sure if it's part of the family environment!
What a great thread here!
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Meredith
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aussieannie
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momwise wrote:
Erin wrote:
Df feels that prayer should be from the heart, really meant, I agree, but with children or even ourselves sometimes through the dry periods sometimes it could involve more rote than heart. Btw df doesn't have a problem with rote prayers as such.
There are really 2 truths here. All prayer should be from the heart (not to be confused with "feeling it") and rote prayer can be a tremendous aid to praying in "dry times."
St. Ignatius said A) all souls who are progressing in holiness will be tempted to stop following their spiritual resolutions and B) whatever resolution to pray (or any spiritual practice) was made when not in a time of spiritual desolation should always be continued in a period of desolation or "dryness."
So, to teach our children first that through their lives they will not always feel like praying but to continue to do so can be "from the heart" even when it feels like God is not there is a very valuable lesson.
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Gwen, that was a very important point to be constantly reminded of - I suppose in the spiritual life, dryness in prayer is equivalent or similiar to a 'health crisis or detox' in the physical world.
They can be confusing, mysterious things at first glance. You think you are heading in the complete opposite direction, when really, by persisting you make your biggest accomplishments at that point.
I have always taught my children not to panic at a detox, that we 'ride it through' and rejoice at the end of it - whatever that was, it was better out than in! I know that I am training them in important principles for life.
This reminds ME of the importance to be consistant in training my children properly in those similar principles of the spiritual life. (I've been training them right in the physical, HOW MUCH MORE important is that I do that in the spiritual?)
Thank you, thank you, Gwen, the more I think of it, the more I realise the absolute importance of what you have just said and applying it in family life.
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Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
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Erin
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| Posted: July 16 2006 at 6:15am | IP Logged
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Just a quick note to thank everyone for all their comments, I am printing it all out and mulling it all over. Df and I have been having some good discussions about it all. Will post more later
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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Karen E.
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| Posted: July 16 2006 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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I'm late again ...
Just wanted to add that "the family that prays together" could also be used to teach about logical fallacies.
Just as it isn't true that the mere act of eating dinner together makes for a strong family, it isn't the case that trooping into a room and saying some prayers will keep a family together (if it is insincere prayer.)
But on the flip side, just as a family that is strongly bonded will *want* to spend meal time together, they will also want to pray together, and will want to advance in *sincere* prayer.
The objective observance of the act is not equivalent to engaging in the act for the right reasons.
And, as Gwen so wisely pointed out, "All prayer should be from the heart (not to be confused with 'feeling it') and rote prayer can be a tremendous aid to praying in 'dry times.'"
If the prayer is indeed from the heart, then the family will be brought together for prayer for the right reasons.
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Family Prayer Life - Philosophical
