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kristacecilia
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How effective have you found narration to be over the long term. From reading some of CM's writings my impression was that they read it once and remember it forever, and that narration and the single reading helped cement this. I realize its a skill to be learned, but my sons don't seem to remember anything they narrate after they finish their narration.
I'm not really thrilled with the narrations I am getting these days, either. I think I need to cut our readings back and do narrations after a paragraph or two. They just stare at me with blank looks.
Sigh.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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pmeilaen
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In my experience boys tend to retain the facts more than the story line, especially when it comes to fiction. Also, some children are sequential learners and do need lots of repetition. Have you ever tried to do a learning style test? That might be very helpful to find out how your sons learn best. You can still do a CM education, but you might need to modify the assignments a bit. One of my children, for example, needs to write down everything she has to study in order to remember it. Children are very different, especially boys. I have always wondered if a CM education works better with girls than with boys, but I have never seen any information on that.
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Eva
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AmandaV
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Here is an article by Lindafay that addresses this as far as long term retention, but I'm not sure it answers your question. Hard books...
I think for some children the selections do need to be shorter. I'm still finding the happy medium.My son is an intense reader and I've let him read more than a 3-5 page chunk - more like a chapter (sometimes more...) and his narrations are good. My daughter, younger still, has started and stayed with shorter sections for now. For instance in the OT in the New Catholic Picture Bible I read two to three paragraphs, then she narrates. For him at that age I would have read the whole 1 page story and his narration would be excellent. So I think every child is different, too.
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Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 08 2013 at 7:17am | IP Logged
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kristacecilia wrote:
| How effective have you found narration to be over the long term. |
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Very effective. In fact, I often go to an older child for a quick review of a book they read in elementary grades just to refresh my memory and they can recount great details. My high school senior still remembers details of the first books she read and narrated.
kristacecilia wrote:
| From reading some of CM's writings my impression was that they read it once and remember it forever, and that narration and the single reading helped cement this. |
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When CM offers this expectation & benefit from a CM education, it is with the understanding that a child is bringing their full attention to a reading. Any reader can read a section, or listen to a reading being read aloud. And if you tune in briefly, you might even be able to give back a little for a narration, but you'll only internalize and narrate WELL if you bring full attention to a reading. It's a habit that takes time to build....and incidentally, it takes longer to stretch and build this habit in a boy than it does in a girl.
kristacecilia wrote:
| I realize its a skill to be learned, but my sons don't seem to remember anything they narrate after they finish their narration. |
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How do you know this? Are you asking them to narrate something they've already narrated? Just wondering how you know they don't remember what they've read? It could be that they DO remember, just not the level of details you expect, or not the level of details you remember.
In general, if the reading isn't cementing, I'd look to three areas to see what could amend or improve:
1) The book choice - is it really living? Some of the more texty reading isn't remembered with the same detail here as a living novel (historical fiction) is. The more a person engages with a book, the more relationship is formed, the more the reading becomes a part of the person and therefore a part of memory. So, I'd first look to see if the book choices are really engaging to my child, and then I'd want to make sure that in general 80% of my book choices fit this bill, and that only 20% (or 2 out of every 10) of the book choices on the schedule are the meatier-more factual info-type books. That allows the meaty books to be read very slowly, and spread across the week.
2) Look at the pace - Make sure you're reading slowly!!! And for some kids (boys especially) I think you have to slow your pace even more than you might with a girl. If you:
Read slow = pick up more details = spend more time from section to section = less material to narrate (organize and give back) = more time to turn over reading passages in the mind = more opportunity to form relationship with reading material = cemented.
NOW....for a historical fiction--super engaging living book --> you're going to be able to assign a little more reading than say, Churchill, or This Country of Ours.
3) Expectations - all kids are going to be unique here, so just know that I'm about to make a big generalization that may not hold true universally. Having said that, in my very non-scientific observations:
** Boys remember big picture and highlights
** Girls remember details, nuances, themes, people
And...in general narrations differ, too:
** Boys tend to narrate succinctly, outlining more, find events significant, pull out one key element and focus on that in their narration
** Girls tend to pull out every.single.detail, remember people, find relationships significant
3) Build the habit of attention for better narrations. You really do have to start small/short to do that. And you may need to shorten again as you evaluate their narrations and ability to bring their attention to a full, single reading.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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kristacecilia
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pmeilaen wrote:
| In my experience boys tend to retain the facts more than the story line, especially when it comes to fiction. Also, some children are sequential learners and do need lots of repetition. Have you ever tried to do a learning style test? That might be very helpful to find out how your sons learn best. You can still do a CM education, but you might need to modify the assignments a bit. One of my children, for example, needs to write down everything she has to study in order to remember it. Children are very different, especially boys. I have always wondered if a CM education works better with girls than with boys, but I have never seen any information on that. |
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I haven't done a learning style test, and I doubt I will go that route. Thanks for the idea, though. :)
__________________
God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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kristacecilia
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| Posted: July 08 2013 at 12:38pm | IP Logged
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AmandaV wrote:
Here is an article by Lindafay that addresses this as far as long term retention, but I'm not sure it answers your question. Hard books...
I think for some children the selections do need to be shorter. I'm still finding the happy medium.My son is an intense reader and I've let him read more than a 3-5 page chunk - more like a chapter (sometimes more...) and his narrations are good. My daughter, younger still, has started and stayed with shorter sections for now. For instance in the OT in the New Catholic Picture Bible I read two to three paragraphs, then she narrates. For him at that age I would have read the whole 1 page story and his narration would be excellent. So I think every child is different, too. |
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This article was extremely helpful. That is almost exactly the situation I found myself in with my older son not able to remember anything from a book we read a couple years ago. Actually, I am bookmarking this article for later because it has so much good information in it. Thanks for that.
And you and Eva both have very good points about different children/boys vs. girls, etc. Thanks!
__________________
God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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kristacecilia
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Posts: 677
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| Posted: July 08 2013 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
kristacecilia wrote:
| How effective have you found narration to be over the long term. |
|
|
Very effective. In fact, I often go to an older child for a quick review of a book they read in elementary grades just to refresh my memory and they can recount great details. My high school senior still remembers details of the first books she read and narrated.
kristacecilia wrote:
| From reading some of CM's writings my impression was that they read it once and remember it forever, and that narration and the single reading helped cement this. |
|
|
When CM offers this expectation & benefit from a CM education, it is with the understanding that a child is bringing their full attention to a reading. Any reader can read a section, or listen to a reading being read aloud. And if you tune in briefly, you might even be able to give back a little for a narration, but you'll only internalize and narrate WELL if you bring full attention to a reading. It's a habit that takes time to build....and incidentally, it takes longer to stretch and build this habit in a boy than it does in a girl.
kristacecilia wrote:
| I realize its a skill to be learned, but my sons don't seem to remember anything they narrate after they finish their narration. |
|
|
How do you know this? Are you asking them to narrate something they've already narrated? Just wondering how you know they don't remember what they've read? It could be that they DO remember, just not the level of details you expect, or not the level of details you remember.
In general, if the reading isn't cementing, I'd look to three areas to see what could amend or improve:
1) The book choice - is it really living? Some of the more texty reading isn't remembered with the same detail here as a living novel (historical fiction) is. The more a person engages with a book, the more relationship is formed, the more the reading becomes a part of the person and therefore a part of memory. So, I'd first look to see if the book choices are really engaging to my child, and then I'd want to make sure that in general 80% of my book choices fit this bill, and that only 20% (or 2 out of every 10) of the book choices on the schedule are the meatier-more factual info-type books. That allows the meaty books to be read very slowly, and spread across the week.
2) Look at the pace - Make sure you're reading slowly!!! And for some kids (boys especially) I think you have to slow your pace even more than you might with a girl. If you:
Read slow = pick up more details = spend more time from section to section = less material to narrate (organize and give back) = more time to turn over reading passages in the mind = more opportunity to form relationship with reading material = cemented.
NOW....for a historical fiction--super engaging living book --> you're going to be able to assign a little more reading than say, Churchill, or This Country of Ours.
3) Expectations - all kids are going to be unique here, so just know that I'm about to make a big generalization that may not hold true universally. Having said that, in my very non-scientific observations:
** Boys remember big picture and highlights
** Girls remember details, nuances, themes, people
And...in general narrations differ, too:
** Boys tend to narrate succinctly, outlining more, find events significant, pull out one key element and focus on that in their narration
** Girls tend to pull out every.single.detail, remember people, find relationships significant
3) Build the habit of attention for better narrations. You really do have to start small/short to do that. And you may need to shorten again as you evaluate their narrations and ability to bring their attention to a full, single reading. |
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Thanks, Jen. This is a lot of good pointers.
To answer your question about how I know... I guess I don't know for sure. However, it has come up on several occasions that they claim not to be able to remember anything from a reading we did yesterday, sometimes last week or a few months ago, and recently, a book we read two years ago. Maybe it's like the Lindafay blog and they remember somewhere in the deep recesses of their minds and it will come back later when they hear something familiar. I hope so.
I do need to cut our readings back. I will start doing that ASAP.
Thanks!
__________________
God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Narration and Retention
