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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
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I've been meaning to ask y'all a question. I would welcome philosophical and practical thoughts along the lines of digital tools and real tools in home education.
I know some of y'all have encountered this challenge, too: digital tools which have the potential to replace *real* tools. I think we could each make use of digital tools in different ways, so there is room for a number of right answers to this question, but I'd love to hear some of your thoughts.
Help me brainstorm:
(from this thread)
Mackfam wrote:
We tried some Mobile Montessori ipad apps and really loved them! They're quite pretty and streamlined, which I like. We tried the lite versions (free) first, and then I was gifted a gift certificate to the itunes store, so I bought the full version of each there. They're fantastic! All of them! Here is a pic of my son working with a couple of them:
Now I need to consider....do I keep the geography cabinet and moveable alphabet in light of some very functional apps that do not take up valuable real estate?   I haven't thought it through yet, but I'd welcome any thoughts if you'd like to share! |
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As I said, we have the geography cabinet and the moveable alphabet. My kids enjoy using both occasionally. I do see the benefits of these *real* tools, especially as it relates in Montessori to that eye-hand-fine-motor development. In a home, we have plenty of other *real* tools which help with fine motor development, so we don't need to rely on either of these tools to provide our only practice with that. Which means I can consider their usefulness in my home since we also now have great apps for both tools. I can't say if the kids have a preference (real/app), we just haven't had the apps long enough. I can say that they enjoy both.
What are your thoughts? I'm not challenged for real estate, so I can take my time in making this decision. I do want to be a good steward, so if you can help me consider some points in the digital v. real question, I can make a good decision about keeping the tools or letting them go to another home where they'd be more useful to another family. Thanks for your help, ladies!!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
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My challenges are different but I find both to be extremely useful.
TV shows (like leapfrog dvds, schoolhouse rock, documentaries etc) are available for many to watch at once. Playing on the computer can be a part of school with starfall.com and others. Reading can be done on the kindle or a real book or a computer screen. There's some fun books that I can't wait to get on kindle (if they're ever available) because the size just makes the hardbacks HEAVY to read in bed, and the paperbacks tend to fall apart because of their size putting more strain on the books when held open alot. The kindle files will last much much longer and provide enjoyment for many more of my kids not to mention that I hate seeing these books look like they're being abused.. it makes me feel bad, like we're not taking care of them.. BUT no one is abusing them.. they literally will fall apart in your hands and I hate that.
I love the interactive things available on the computer, programs like Rosetta Stone or starfall or khan academy. But I also like real things like coloring pages and startwrite which lets me print off the work and regular old text and work books.
I guess I'm saying that I love having a mix.. it's nice to do things on the computer and it's nice to sit at the table to write stuff and it's nice to get comfy on the couch. I like having things that kids can do alone or in various sized groups. I like that I can duplicate books on the kindle so that more than one child can read that book at once without doubling the space needed plus I can have the kindle for books and audio for travel and reduce amounts of things to take. My dh is all about traveling light but concedes to me that there are things that are nice to have even if you can do without. So I work to keep my ideas of needs and what-ifs down so as not to be a large burden when traveling and he takes the extra "burdens" with good grace.  (though I tease that the boy scouts have nothing on "mom" for being prepared  )
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Susana
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
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Oh my goodness! I will have to check those out! They really have expanded!
My opinion is that if they can serve the same function and if the apps are well done, then yes, go ahead and go digital where you can!
Many of the Montessori sensorial materials can't be replaced digitally because the child really has to sense the length, weight, etc.. of the objects, but it seems that there are plenty where digital would be ok. I think that as long as the child is not in front of the screen all day, then some of the those apps are just fine.
Real Montessori materials will always have their place, but for those who cannot afford to buy them or don't have the space in the home, the apps could be quite wonderful. It wouldn't be the full Montessori experience integrated sensorially, however they can still make a wonderful learning tool.
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Mami to ds12,ds11,ds10,ds8,dd7, dd4, and ds 2.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
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Those apps look really neat! And since I haven't yet invested in the real items and am limited in real estate, it seems ideal.
I guess one thing you could ask yourself is would you still want to buy the real thing had you had the iPad first?
My husband doesn't really like for the boys to be on the computer for school, but I like how "quiet" those apps look. Sometimes, kids stuff is so "loud" that even the educational things count for "screen time" in terms of how it affects the behavior of my children. My oldest has always been especially sensitive to this, so I've been pretty aware since he was a toddler.
So, that would be another consideration of mine--is the electronic version going to affect my child's behavior in a way the real version does not?
Will it create tension or fights over getting to use the electronic version, making my life more complicated in another way?
I do have some of ds's reading on the iPad. One thing I had a hard time figuring out was how to make those titles "available" in the same way a real book is. I have school books in a basket, but I'm not leaving my iPad in the book basket--I use it, for one, and I don't want free access to it, for another. So, I printed out the cover of the book on one side and table of contents on the other side of a piece of card stock. I have the paper in the basket with the books, so, if my oldest chooses that book, he can come and ask for the iPad for reading.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
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Great points everyone!
JodieLyn wrote:
| I guess I'm saying that I love having a mix.. |
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Yes, me too. My preference for books is always going to be real, and I make book storage/shelf space a priority. Having said that, I do have voracious readers and keeping them stocked in good reading on the Kindle has really been a blessing.
Susana wrote:
| My opinion is that if they can serve the same function and if the apps are well done, then yes, go ahead and go digital where you can! |
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This is definitely how I was leaning, Susana, and I'm glad to have your opinion on this. I really do like our geography cabinet, and my kids have enjoyed using it over the years, so it isn't the academic application I want to leave behind. Because the apps are quite stunning and so visually *quiet* they make themselves a truly viable option! What a blessing for someone that would really enjoy some Montessori materials to find some of these Montessori apps for a couple of dollars versus the hundreds they are normally! I think that is such a blessing!!! Of course, I guess it seems that way to me because our ipad was gifted to us, so I don't instantly think of the cost of the ipad, which obviously should figure in to the equation.
Susana wrote:
| Many of the Montessori sensorial materials can't be replaced digitally because the child really has to sense the length, weight, etc.. of the objects, but it seems that there are plenty where digital would be ok. |
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Susana, you were reading my mind on this one! I'm actually quite a fan of Montessori ideas and the application in the home. Sensorial activities, by definition, cannot be adequately replaced with a digital function. In a Montessori school, I'm not sure this question is worth asking because the sensorial aspects of having a moveable alphabet or pinching those geography pieces cannot be underestimated. But in a home, where those skills can be learned with other sensorial activities, the sensorial part of the equation doesn't seem to be enough of a reason alone to keep them. I'd love to hear other thoughts if there is disagreement though!
I'm most inclined to let the geography cabinet go to another home, but in thinking about it this afternoon, the moveable alphabet gets so much use with my early readers/writers, so much spontaneous use, that I'm not sure about letting that go yet. And I do really like that they can finger trace the letters right over the wooden letter. Still thinking.....
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I guess one thing you could ask yourself is would you still want to buy the real thing had you had the iPad first? |
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This is a question I thought of, too, Lindsay! I want to think about it a bit more, but my knee-jerk response is probably not. Not because I don't find the activities of the geography cabinet or the moveable alphabet useful - I do! But because the apps are so beautiful, so lacking in visual and audible noise, and because they live on the ipad. They need no floor space in my learning room, no shelf space.
This has been a very helpful thought process!  Keep your insight coming ladies! 
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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I think a mix is important.
In this day and age, kids need to learn to use technology and be comfortable with it, so having them do some work on the iPad or computer is great.
However, I certainly don't want my kids staring at a screen all day for school, esp when in the winter all they want to do AFTER school is watch TV or play video games.
Real interaction with real things is vital to mental health and stimulation, too.
So, that's my vote--a mix is good.
btw on the geo cabinet, having it on the iPad may be good for some applications, but it does limit the number of extensions you can do with it. And I do believe we get more out of the cabinet in non-traditional extensions than we do for its original purpose.
For example:
Here Jbug is using the light table to trace one of the control maps in order to make her own interactive map. So many things like this would be impossible with an electronic version. Then again, it would be nice to sometimes be able to use the maps on a little ol iPad on the couch, and not take up the whole dining room table all the time!
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Theresa
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 8:18pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
| Real interaction with real things is vital to mental health and stimulation, too. |
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I totally agree!
lapazfarm wrote:
| btw on the geo cabinet, having it on the iPad may be good for some applications, but it does limit the number of extensions you can do with it. And I do believe we get more out of the cabinet in non-traditional extensions than we do for its original purpose. |
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And this is one of my main sticking points, too, Theresa. Just last term, my oldest dd (who by all Montessori definitions has "outgrown" the use of the geography cabinet) used some puzzle pieces to create an outline map for an essay she was writing. And like you, it is perhaps the non-traditional use of the geography cabinet that has made it a very useful tool in our home.
Great food for thought!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 8:25pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
I think a mix is important.
In this day and age, kids need to learn to use technology and be comfortable with it, so having them do some work on the iPad or computer is great.
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Just wanted to come back quickly and say that your point about a balanced, integrated approach --> real stuff AND digital tools <-- is one I agree with and find to be workable. And of course, a parent can still exercise prudence in deciding when to introduce technology, how much, what kind.
With that thought, I changed the title of the thread because I really don't see it as one versus the other, which implies one is right and one is wrong....or one is better and one is less than....or one is preferred and one is not. As I said, there are so many variables in different families, I can see so many variations of the right answer to this question. Jodie's post shows how a large family in small spaces can really make use of an ereader.
Anyway, to invite more thoughts along those lines I changed the thread title to:
Quote:
| Digital :: Real - Tools in Home Ed. |
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And...I'm further moderating myself. I'm moving this thread to Philosophy of Education because I think the question and the great insight fit there better.
I'm really finding some useful considerations in your posts! Please do keep sharing!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 10:02pm | IP Logged
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I also think there are some subjects or skills that lend themselves to e-media more readily than others.
Reading, math, etc can be translated to emedia very well.
Science, art, not so much.
But even within those areas there may be some room for digitalization. For example, my son (16) is very much enjoying learning computer animation and 3-D rendering. That's art, done electronically in a very good way. I can't see it ever replacing pencil/paper/paint art, but supplementing it quite well.
And in science, there are some neat multimedia tools that allow you to see/experience things you just cannot see/experience IRL (online electron micrographs, safari webcams, etc), so even science can be supplemented, though never replaced, by emedia.
History is one area where DVD's/YouTube videos, etc can really shine as a learning tool, as well as geography. We love watching history documentaries and travel videos about places we are studying--it's the next best thing to being there.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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SallyT
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Oh, I'm loving those Montessori apps! I have one on my Macbook (don't have an iPad) -- Montessori Spelling -- which my 8yo adores and uses often. It's not a schematic part of school, just a fill-in kind of thing, but it's so sweet and clear and quiet. She really loves doing it. It has a little moveable alphabet function, but I'd love to be able to get one that was just a moveable alphabet! And that geography one! I'm swooning.
We haven't been very Montessori, so for me, not owning the actual materials, digital apps look like a low-cost, low-space way to bring some of that into our home and work.
In general, I too like to offer a range of experiences, including digital technology. I like that my kids can work/play independently -- I like that I think they're working, but they think they're playing.
Like Lindsay, with my younger children I have to take behavioral issues into consideration. I've often axed even potentially useful computer time because it was degenerating into arguments over whose turn/she got longer than I did, which made the computer as a tool not seem worth it. And my younger son has tended to get very wound up by certain kinds of computer graphics and sounds, so I have to be careful with him.
My older son uses the computer a lot -- he has his own laptop, which enables him to use instructional DVDs and resources like Khan Academy to figure out his algebra, for example. He's doing a German course online via a link we found on Homeschool College USA, and a lot of his reading for this year has come from The Baldwin Project. It's been nice to have so much of his work contained in one place -- the computer helps him to be far more organized. Of course, the digital aspect of his coursework is balanced by hands-on learning -- we currently have several lovely crops of e. coli bacteria flourishing in petri dishes around the house, for example. Still, what he's been able to have at his fingertips via the computer has been really good for him.
Still, I'm really struck by Theresa's point that a computer app is more limited in its possiblities. I'm reminded of my old number-one criterion for a good toy: that it be open-ended, able to be used according to the child's imagination. I've always hated toys which were made to be used one way, for one purpose. And it occurs to me that computer apps are similarly limited -- you can't take an app and use it for something else -- even as they may open up possiblities. And that's worth thinking about. If I *had* the great Montessori materials, I'd think they were totally worth hanging onto, even if a computer app seemed to duplicate them, for that reason. Things you can touch and hold are far more likely to be open-ended in their utility, and you can't foresee how someone might find a way to use them.
Sally
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mommy4ever
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| Posted: Jan 27 2012 at 1:19pm | IP Logged
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I have mixed feelings.
I am very digital-oriented. I see great potential in the iPad. We procured one this Christmas for my youngest.
Some things you can't use a computer for. As mentioned. In tender ages, handwriting, art, drawing. :) However, it can enhance so many things. We're currently studying the planets, however for weeks we haven't had a clear sky. An app on the iPad suffices to do so. Last unit, it was an experiment with the magnifying glass, sun and paper. It was -40 outside, and no sun. We found it on youtube. It doesn't replace the experiment, which we'll actually do this summer, but it enabled us to move forward.
It allows me to teach so much more, when i have no resources for things. I don't have an extensive supply of school things. So it allows them to at least see, where we can't do.
Now if you have the supplies, and have the space, and can plan to use it, then it's not necessary to get rid of it. It has a use, a purpose and you'll use it. However, if you don't have plans for it, then you can let go! I'd love to have more school things, but our home is full to the max. It's not a hoarders home, but if I obtain anything more, it'll be too much.
We actually have too much and I struggle to let go...I'd love to have an empty drawer or shelf. so it's simply better not to add more. We like that the ipad reduces lots and lots of paper. Love that we can get ebook versions and save on shipping.
So it really does come down to what you have room for reasonably, and you'll use. Then it has a place in your home.
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Digital :: Real - Tools in Home Ed.
