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Topic: Halliburton or Hillyer for Geography

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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 3:21pm \| IP Logged

I've tried reading some old threads to figure this out but I just need a little help or maybe it's just a little encouragement.

My girls loved doing geography together this year, but I had decided I would have my oldest work through the Halliburton Book of Marvels on her own this year (since its recommended for her age/grade level). I was then going to pair up my dd and ds (3rd & 1st) geography study using Hillyer's Children's Geography of the World so that they would all be studying world geography. But now I'm thinking that I just want all of them to work together using the Hillyer book and just see where it takes us. My original thoughts were that my oldest needed something more challening. Hmm...decisions. Any thoughts? I always love to hear.

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JennGM
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 3:41pm \| IP Logged

To add to your question, I'm just wondering if you were planning on doing a Holling C. Holling Geography focus, like the one Beautiful Feet has, and if so, what year?

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Jennifer G. Miller
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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 4:01pm \| IP Logged

I actually did consider it for this year too, but I wanted the older three on the same page for one more year and my oldest has already read all the Holling books (not along with the BF study just to read). So I thought I would wait one more year for the BF study and have the middle three do that together (then it will be a young 4th, 2nd, and 1st grader).

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JennGM
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 4:21pm \| IP Logged

Grace&Chaos wrote:

Aw, thanks for humoring me, Jenny! Maybe I should start a thread for ideas for moms doing only one grade? I'm only teaching 3rd grade and then I have my preschooler. Not really something to combine!

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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 4:29pm \| IP Logged

Grace&Chaos wrote:

Can your oldest dd do both? (I know, easier said than done) Read aloud Hillyer for everyone, and a slower pace (once a week, maybe) for reading Marvels?

I think the Hillyer could stand on its own even with her. Her "assignments" would be appropriate for her age, copywork, written narration...map work?

Not much help...are you thinking Marvels for next year for her?

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Mackfam
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 4:34pm \| IP Logged

I love the Halliburton books. Mine are usually older when they read them though...usually around Middle school/high school (just because there are so many other great living geography things we do for elementary, it just works out this way). My oldest missed out on reading Halliburton's Book of Marvels until now, so she's actually reading it this year for her 10th grade geography.

I also really like Hillyer's book and find that it makes a fantastic read aloud. It stretched for a year and a half for us. We combined it with a fun study of biomes. If you already have this book, it would be my recommendation for the combined ages of your kids.

We round out geography by using a nice atlas and then the kids spend 10 minutes/daily studying a particular map which they master over time.

Something else we've really enjoyed doing last year is having an extra world map on the wall. We like marking it up with dry erase markers as we read books. In that way, all our books/studies are able to function as living geography and their geographical settings become pertinent in relationship to the stories the children are reading. You may already do this - I didn't for the longest time though because I have a child that would be visually distracted if our only map was written on...then I had a 'DUH' moment and spent $4 getting ANOTHER nice laminated world map. Voila! One map for reference...one for writing on!

I know you didn't ask for alternatives...but I'm throwing a few of our favorite living geography selections for elementary years:

** Holling C. Holling series with the Beautiful Feet guide - Jenn mentioned this and it is MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE living geography for elementary!! I highly recommend the maps that go along with this study!! This could certainly be a family study, but my two older children will have each gone through the Beautiful Feet study independently. It works best in our family in this way because my children enjoy spending time reading through H.C.H. on their own, narrating to me, and then we follow rabbit trails that interest us. My 6th grade son will complete this study this year. It would work well between 4th - 6th grade.

** The Golden Geography a Giant Golden Book by Werner and De Witt - oop book, but inexpensive used, lovely illustrations and makes for a nice independent read for elementary because the book easily divides into small sections for reading/narrating.

** Where Am I: The Story of Maps and Navigation - great for upper elementary student as an independent read.

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Jen Mackintosh
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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 4:35pm \| IP Logged

JennGM wrote:

Aw, thanks for humoring me, Jenny! Maybe I should start a thread for ideas for moms doing only one grade? I'm only teaching 3rd grade and then I have my preschooler. Not really something to combine!

Interesting though, combining subjects is still new to me, so my first inclination is to just have everyone do their own thing at the recommended level. But then I get pulled back to having everyone learn together and enjoy that time (and make it a little easier for mom)

.

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Jenny
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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 5:07pm \| IP Logged

Mackfam wrote:

We have the Hillyer book and because I started pre reading for myself I thought my oldest would enjoy this with us too. If the Book of Marvels doesn't get used I know it will later. I'm thinking she can put this off for another year or even two. I can see how the Hillyer book will take us longer than a year to cover, even though I am planning to start after his description of the states since they just did this. (I wish I had found the book sooner, I know the girls would have enjoyed this alongside their other reads

).

I like the double map idea, so far I just have one

. Our poor globe is starting to loose its stability so I'm sure by the time we're done with this study it will have to be replaced, this is what has served as their visualy clean refernce

.

I'm looking forward to the Holling study, for some reason I keep thinking that this is something the boys will really enjoy, so I'm glad to hear you recommend this in the mid elementary years. The girls did go through Tree in the Trail together earlier this year and immensely enjoyed it. I didn't have the maps but our big wall US map worked well for their trailing purposes

.

I'll check out the other books too. Maybe I can add the last one for my oldest as just a little extra. Thanks!!!

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pmeilaen
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 9:24pm \| IP Logged

We've been using Van Loon's Geography with my 7th grader. You could combine it with the workbooks from Evan-Moore The 7 Continents.

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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 06 2011 at 10:31pm \| IP Logged

pmeilaen wrote:

We've been using Van Loon's Geography with my 7th grader. You could combine it with the workbooks from Evan-Moore The 7 Continents.

Please don't laugh at me, but I actually have it

. With the dustcover that folds out into a map. I love it! I'm also saving this one for a later read

.

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CrunchyMom
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 8:42am \| IP Logged

Mackfam wrote:

Is the Beautiful Feet Guide the sort of thing that could be spread out over a couple of years? I have us scheduled to read some Holling C. Holling books as part of our Geography and Science reading this next year.

I guess what I'm asking is would it be helpful as a reference to use while reading those books even if I'm not trying to use them exclusively for a stretch of time.

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Lindsay
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SeaStar
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:03am \| IP Logged

It sounds like everyone is having solid geography programs every year?
Or do you alternate years or vary according to a child's interest?

I remember having one bonafide geography course in seventh grade for one semester.

Now, I'm sure that I looked at maps and such in conjunction with history classes, but that was it as far as formal "geography".

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CrunchyMom
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:25am \| IP Logged

SeaStar wrote:

It sounds like everyone is having solid geography programs every year?
Or do you alternate years or vary according to a child's interest?

I remember having one bonafide geography course in seventh grade for one semester.

Now, I'm sure that I looked at maps and such in conjunction with history classes, but that was it as far as formal "geography".

Honestly, Melinda, I have a hard time visualizing the lines between History/Geography/Science.

I do know that Charlotte Mason emphasized History as the spine of sorts for the rest of education. She also emphasized geography much more than schools today and nature study as well.

But, science as a subject was not emphasized so strongly as it is today.

To my mind, part of the reason is that nature study was the most prominent form the study of science took in the Victorian era.

And geography sort of covered a lot of the rest.

Anyway, I do think that schools today put too much emphasis on "science" at the expense of both gegraphy and nature study (which are both much more about how "science" has always interacted most directly with the person).

However, we do live in an age of science, surrounded by technology and with many more aspects of it touching our lives than in Charlotte Mason's day.

All that to say, I think that a lot of the subject matter is the same, it just the lens through which one views it and the emphasis that changes. If you are actively including geography in your science, nature, and history studies, it doesn't *have* to be its own subject.

I am planning on a "slot" this year for "Science and Geography" where I can stick read alouds from Daly's First Timeline as well as Nebel's Building Foundations... and some nature read alouds like the Holling C. Holling and/or Burgess. To mme, these types of histories, sciences, nature studies, and geographies overlap a great deal.

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guitarnan
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:26am \| IP Logged

We did Map Skills every year through grade 5, and then switched to a social studies approach that includes history (every year), geography (a semester every couple of years), economics (same), and area studies (same).

Interestingly, my son is now considering a major in geography!

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Mackfam
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:26am \| IP Logged

CrunchyMom wrote:

Is the Beautiful Feet Guide the sort of thing that could be spread out over a couple of years?

Absolutely! The guide is set up to coordinate with one of Holling's books at a time, so you could just follow the guide (I did so loosely even when we used it) as it corresponds to the Holling book you and the boys are reading. There is no particular order.

In my opinion, studying the Holling C. Holling books using this guide, would be best done over a period of years (2 - 3) anyway because of all of the rich literature rabbit trails the guide offers.

NOTE for use of the guide -- the Beautiful Feet guides are written with a Protestant emphasis. This is so easy to deal with - simply don't read a suggested resource.

It's one of the reasons I appreciate these guides so much - they're guides for me, and the children don't need to know if I've made a quick sub. This is seen more in other guides I think (I only have a few), but I wanted to give a heads-up for the Geography through Lit guide. There are only a couple of areas I found I wanted to make a substitution:

TREE IN THE TRAIL:
Lesson 8 - Suggested reading on the Cimarron Crossing emphasizing Jedediah Strong Smith, a Protestant (Methodist) man who really did live a wonderful life and is a fine example of a mountain man, trailblazer, adventurer (his story really is a very interesting one!!)...BUT...if you're looking to emphasize a Catholic perspective along this period of history, you might consider substituting or at least adding. We enjoyed reading a little about the Cimarron Crossing of the Arkansas river and then researching the many Catholic mission churches along the Santa Fe trail.

MINN OF THE MISSISSIPPI:
Lesson 2 - Just be aware of a suggestion to use a creationist resource on dinosaurs. This is an area that a family can easily substitute their family preference for teaching on dinosaurs.

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Jen Mackintosh
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JennGM
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:30am \| IP Logged

CrunchyMom wrote:

SeaStar wrote:

It sounds like everyone is having solid geography programs every year?
Or do you alternate years or vary according to a child's interest?

I remember having one bonafide geography course in seventh grade for one semester.

Now, I'm sure that I looked at maps and such in conjunction with history classes, but that was it as far as formal "geography".

When I took Geography in college, it was fascinating to find out that weather and geology and cultural studies and history are all part of Geography. It's not just about maps.

I think Lindsay makes good points about the science. But "Social Studies" is also something I think Geography covers.

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Jennifer G. Miller
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CrunchyMom
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:39am \| IP Logged

I agree, Jen. Honestly, I think Social Studies is a silly name given to a subject that was intended to be a vehicle for promoting politically correct multi-culturalism at the expense of serious history study. I don't think it is really important as a subject since so much of that which is legitimate is covered in both history and geography. It seems like a subject that tries to be "all things to all people" without covering any of it very thoroughly.

Just my not-so-humble opinion

Not trying to ruffle feathers or anything. I was just having a discussion with a friend where I concluded that so much of home schooling choices has to do with what works psychologically with the mother. I'd probably study a lot of the same things that someone else would label "social studies" but the name itself carries negative connotation for me.

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Lindsay
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Grace&Chaos
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:45am \| IP Logged

I love this discussion. I think the points made are excellent. And again, here is where picking a good living book about geography to read aloud or give to our children can create such a well of knowledge and serve as a wonderful bridge to making connections in all kinds of subjects.

I'm having my dd 7 read through Charlotte Mason's Elementary Geography and I think it is giving her a very basic understanding about key words and concepts, but because she includes poetry and such in her book she is enjoying it so much more than just a workbook. It also gives her a reference point when we read other books about people and places. Like when she read Jenny Goes to Sea this year she immediately wanted to look up places on a map or one of the Lighthouse Family books mentions the northern lights which was mentioned in the CM book and that was cause for some good research.

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Mackfam
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:48am \| IP Logged

SeaStar wrote:

It sounds like everyone is having solid geography programs every year?
Or do you alternate years or vary according to a child's interest?

We don't do "geography programs", though we do work on map skills using an atlas and blank maps - not a program though...just look at a map for 10 min, now reproduce everything you remember on this blank map (could be rivers, cities, countries, continents, geographical features, etc.). Once basics are mastered (7 continents, countries of the continents, states of the US) this usually relates to the area we're studying in history and reflects the emphasis of the living book we're reading.

We do read from some living geography every year though. As Lindsay mentioned, geography and history (as well as a good chunk of science...think how geography relates to geology just for one example!!) are integrated and complementary. So, I may choose to LABEL something GEOGRAPHY for the purpose of record-keeping, but in reality it fits in history and science as well.

In Charlotte Mason's schools, history was/is the pivot upon which the entire curriculum turns, and there's a reason it works so well that way. Hand a bunch of geography facts to a child and it's a big glaze-over-fest. Read about Pere Marquette's explorations and follow his journey on a big map, reproducing it, illustrating it, imagining it, researching the tiny nuances of his trip throughout the reading...and I guarantee that the geography of the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River will come to life as you sail along the mighty Miss. with Father, wondering along with him if he and his party will make it past the fabled Mascouten Indian village, Fire Nation, where no white man was known to live beyond. I could have classified The Explorations of Pere Marquette as geography just as much as history, but it's really both as most living books are because they aren't pockets of information, but rather they are snapshots of the whole - geography, culture, society, history, scienctific understanding - everything.

Which is just ONE of the many reasons that CM's methods are so efficient!! In encountering living, whole ideas....the biggest challenge is a matter of LABELING them as only one thing because their breadth is enormous!

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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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Posted: June 07 2011 at 9:50am \| IP Logged

Oh, I was cross-posting with so many lovely thoughts! What an invigorating discussion!

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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19

, ds 16

, ds 11

, dd 8

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Wildflowers and Marbles

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