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kristinannie
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OK, I am sure that I am opening up a can of worms here, but someone suggested that I post about this on here and get some feedback so....here goes!
I have three kids 4 and under. I had to beg for my newest addition (about 10 months old). My husband was perfectly happy with 2. I got an IUD put in and never felt right about it. I am going to get it removed.
I am definitely open to more kids if that is what God has in store for us. My husband is slowly being opened up to the idea and I am praying about it every day. Even though I would love more kids, my body needs time to heal. My last pregnancy was very rough on me. I was on bedrest for a couple months and was pulled off exercise at 4 months. I gained 50 pounds and I would like more time to lose the weight and heal my body. I don't want to use any form of birth control.
I was wondering about your feelings on NFP. I know there are different systems you can use. Which one do you like? What is the best way to go about it from a spiritual point of view?
I hope I am not causing trouble here. I am new to this board, but have loved the support and information given to me so far! Thanks and God bless.
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cathhomeschool
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Kristinannie,
Thank you for your care in phrasing your question and in asking for opinions on the forms of NFP. This is indeed a topic that carries much emotion and can get very heated. I think that you are approaching this all from the right place -- a place of daily prayer. God changes and guides the heart, leading us gently towards Him. I would encourage you to continue to pray in silence for your situation. God will work through your marriage, guiding you two to His Will for your family.
We have personally used mucus-only and sympto-thermal NFP methods at different times. They key from a spiritual point of view is to take it to prayer within the privacy of your marriage. Spiritual direction or guidance from a good priest may also help if you and your husband are able to go together.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Bridget
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NFP is a gift of God that the Church allows for these very situations. The documents state "for just reasons". I am so glad you are looking into it.
I can't help you much with the practical end, we have never used it for spacing, have always just been open.
Your parish should have a list of teaching couples and available class times, but Couple to Couple league would be a good place to start reading.
God Bless you on this journey!
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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kristinannie
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BTW, if you don't feel comfortable discussing this on this forum, please feel free to PM me. This is something that God has put into my heart and I am sure that a lot of you have had similar experiences. I would love to hear your story and why you decided to make whatever decision you decided to make. God bless.
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Mackfam
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Thank you, Kristin, for asking this question with such respect for the topic. Discussing NFP has historically been one that can be divisive here at 4Real, bringing heated opinions even while offering a variety of angles and perspectives to consider.
We have the Church's guidance in the Catechism (see # 2368).
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:
When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156 |
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Thank you all for keeping this in mind as you post with respect and understanding for a decision which is made privately. Thank you also for keeping necessary details private. Comments offering insight on the particular pros and cons of methods of NFP should be offered in a neutral way so that Kristin can gather information to prayerfully discern privately with her husband.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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*Lindsey*
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You might be interested in this Catholic message board about NFP:
Living the Sacrament
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Lindsey
Mama to DS (11), DD(9), twin dds(7), DD (5), DS (4), DS (3), and 5 angels in heaven.
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Erica Sanchez
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We are users of NFP for spacing. My cycles return very, very early (from 2 to 4 months post-partum). We've used Sympto-Thermal, but lately have switched to the Creighton Model. I have good temperature rises and it has been interesting to move away from that one particular sign, but I am really liking Creighton so far. I am not a good charter even after three children in just about 4 years followed by two miscarriages. I am trying to be better.
I have only of late been pondering the question of whether to continue using it or to completely trust God with our numbers and spacing. While very, very grateful for the spacing NFP did give us, even though we conceived while using it (lackluster charting), I wonder if we should have just trusted.
It is an odd place to be, really, this questioning. My youngest is now 18 months. That, with losing two babies this past year I believe is affecting my thoughts. After I had the last one, he being the third of the three in about 4 years, I was totally committed to its use! :)
To me it seems like women who choose not to use it all are blessed with 'good' spacing. Not all women, of course. If I could have a delay of return of fertility in, say, the 12-15 month range, I probably would have been/would be more open to the idea.
Why am I only now after all the babies and my 'advanced' age wondering if we should simply trust God with our remaining fertile years. Or, maybe my fertility is in decline and my motherly instincts are at work. It is very difficult for me to think that God would chose not to give us a baby if we used a fertile day as it's never happened in our whole marriage. Oh, once I think, way back before baby #2.
I think I have trust issues. :)
Anyway, I apologize for going on and on. I really like to talk about this subject. Really, like everyone has said, it is for you and your husband to decide. The teachings are clear - it is completely permissible to use in 'just' cases. And, what is just for you may not be just for me, and vice versa. And, what is just at one stage of life may not be in another.
I think for the first time in our marriage we actually talk about it each month. My sister who uses NFP with her non-Catholic, non-Christian, wants-no-more-babies husband does the same, asks him each month, hoping that he will one month say 'yes'! :)
God bless you, Kristinannie!! You are wise and brave and faith-filled to discontinue use of the IUD. I know God will reward you greatly for that decision alone.
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Lisbet
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
To me it seems like women who choose not to use it all are blessed with 'good' spacing. Not all women, of course. |
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 What is 'good spacing'? When I am confronted w/that question, (my cycles return super early also - I'm in the middle of my first cycle right now and Celia will be 4 months old next week...) I just say the best spacing is "God spacing" LOL!
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
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Isaac, 11
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Sam, 9
Henry, 7
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Greta, 3
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CrunchyMom
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Lisbet wrote:
Erica Sanchez wrote:
To me it seems like women who choose not to use it all are blessed with 'good' spacing. Not all women, of course. |
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What is 'good spacing'? When I am confronted w/that question, (my cycles return super early also - I'm in the middle of my first cycle right now and Celia will be 4 months old next week...) I just say the best spacing is "God spacing" LOL!
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I do think that I'm probably more comfortable doing nothing because I feel my spacing is naturally pretty generous (2-2.5 yrs). I'm not sure I would have your courage or stamina, Lisa!
But I feel extremely blessed to be given the grace to not "plan." And, I think that in a society where we are SO given to planning, it is a mentality that is so foreign, people never even consider it an option, which is sad to me. We often miss out on great blessings when we think we should determine exactly how and when they are to occur.
Though, I sometimes wonder if God is often calling individuals to the act that is more counter to their temperament in areas such as this. I'm sure it is not universal, but we often have different things He wants us to learn through his calling, whether it be a more "free" idea of trust and faith or a a more "disciplined" idea of responsibility for our actions. All reasons that personal discernment is usually required to be so private--it varies so much! Which is perhaps why the Church allows for both!
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Erica Sanchez
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| We often miss out on great blessings when we think we should determine exactly how and when they are to occur. |
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I will probably sound defensive, and maybe I am, but I wanted to say that only one out of our 10 conceptions was 'planned' by us. :) We used NFP for spacing and God still decided when we would have another baby. It was always earlier than we would have chosen, but, of course, always the right timing because it was His timing.
I know that you are speaking in generalizations, Lindsey, and not directly to me. :)
And, Lisa, you're right to ask what is 'good' spacing? I would say it's totally different for everyone. I think you are brave and heroic and trusting! But, then what does that make me?
And, that's when I think I should never enter into NFP discussions, because it can seem like the women who do not use NFP and have early return of fertility are the brave and heroic ones and the rest of us, well, aren't.
I absolutely know that is not anyone's intention when posting about their use or non-use of NFP! I do! I really, really do!
Bowing out of the conversation and wishing I hadn't joined in......
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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kristinannie
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Lisbet wrote:
Erica Sanchez wrote:
To me it seems like women who choose not to use it all are blessed with 'good' spacing. Not all women, of course. |
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What is 'good spacing'? When I am confronted w/that question, (my cycles return super early also - I'm in the middle of my first cycle right now and Celia will be 4 months old next week...) I just say the best spacing is "God spacing" LOL!
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I do think that I'm probably more comfortable doing nothing because I feel my spacing is naturally pretty generous (2-2.5 yrs). I'm not sure I would have your courage or stamina, Lisa!
But I feel extremely blessed to be given the grace to not "plan." And, I think that in a society where we are SO given to planning, it is a mentality that is so foreign, people never even consider it an option, which is sad to me. We often miss out on great blessings when we think we should determine exactly how and when they are to occur.
Though, I sometimes wonder if God is often calling individuals to the act that is more counter to their temperament in areas such as this. I'm sure it is not universal, but we often have different things He wants us to learn through his calling, whether it be a more "free" idea of trust and faith or a a more "disciplined" idea of responsibility for our actions. All reasons that personal discernment is usually required to be so private--it varies so much! Which is perhaps why the Church allows for both!
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I do agree with you that things rarely work out as well when we use "our" timing instead of God's. Sometimes I get so frustrated waiting on God to answer my prayer when it turns out that I was praying for the wrong thing or rushing something that hadn't had time to work out in my favor.
I am going to pray about what you have posted. Please pray for me and my husband so that we can get on the same page and have the wonderful, blessed life that God wants us to have.
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CrunchyMom
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
| We often miss out on great blessings when we think we should determine exactly how and when they are to occur. |
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I will probably sound defensive, and maybe I am, but I wanted to say that only one out of our 10 conceptions was 'planned' by us. :) We used NFP for spacing and God still decided when we would have another baby. It was always earlier than we would have chosen, but, of course, always the right timing because it was His timing.
I know that you are speaking in generalizations, Lindsey, and not directly to me. :) |
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Absolutely! I was just meaning to point out that both ideas have their place. I didn't mean to imply that those who use NFP are controlling. In fact, I meant the opposite--that God calls us to different things for different reasons.
I think that the idea of not being in control is the exception rather than the norm in our culture, and as such, I think few people even consider it an option regardless of how soon their fertility returns. I was definitely referencing the prevailing the mentality of our society in general--not insinuating it was the prevailing mentality of faithful Catholics using NFP!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JennGM
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Erica, don't leave the discussion. This is such a mult-layered, emotional subject, and I thank you for opening up.
I hate even using the word "NFP" because I'm not planning, really. I'm just reading my fertility signs, and use these tools to work with God. This can be trying to get pregnant, or delaying.
I got married later in life, and had both primary and secondary infertility. We used the Sympto-Thermal method to try and get pregnant for years...but now that we have a medical reason to abstain, I'm using more of Creighton method, loosely followed. I prefer that...the temperature taking I was never faithful.
But my husband and I revisit this every month whether or not this is time. It's not a done decision, and it's done prayerfully, and together. I turn 44 next month, so I know our years are running.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
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Angie Mc
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
I think you are brave and heroic and trusting! But, then what does that make me?
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Brave, heroic and trusting - since you asked  .
Erica Sanchez wrote:
| I have only of late been pondering the question of whether to continue using it or to completely trust God with our numbers and spacing. |
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Like you, I rarely chime in on NFP topics because of their intimate/private nature and potential to hurt feelings. But I think I'm finally strong enough...or clear enough...to see that God's will is very, very, mysterious (to state the obvious!) and I truly believe that He chooses perfectly. We don't manipulate our Lord. He doesn't let our less than perfectness (and I'm not just talking about NFP choices but our character flaws, strong-will, pride, etc. that we cling to) get in the way of one of His highest intentions...to create new souls! NFP has its place in this mystery, per our Mother Church.
Maybe I'm just getting old (only I can say that about myself  ) but I don't see or feel NFP/No NFP as the divide I once did. I love to see the desire to do right and be right with God that shines through the members who share their stories here. There are many ways to become Christ-like in a lifetime. Struggling with challenges and decisions related to fertility and infertility is something we all share in common.
kristinannie wrote:
I was wondering about your feelings on NFP. ...
I hope I am not causing trouble here. I am new to this board, but have loved the support and information given to me so far! Thanks and God bless. |
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Thanks, kristiannie! May God bless you in your search as He draws you closer and closer to Himself.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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cathhomeschool
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
| it can seem like the women who do not use NFP and have early return of fertility are the brave and heroic ones and the rest of us, well, aren't. |
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God has called us to different purposes in life as unique and intentional as each individual He creates. He has a purpose for each couple, for each family. Only He can truly inspire our hearts towards His will, including number and spacing of children. Those who have more or don't use NFP are not necessarily braver than the rest. They are brave and heroic, most definitely, but so are others. They are trying to fulfill their particular calling. But so are the rest. I struggled with this for a long time -- what will others (especially Catholic homeschoolers) think about how many children we have even though they don't know our "story?" Ultimately, it was my pride that was at the root of that struggle. Now I am more gentle on myself and I try to remember that God knows our hearts and our story and it doesn't matter what others think about my family size or anything else. After all, He created us and brought my family together. We try to follow Him and that is all.
This is such a personal, often painful subject! And given the history of this topic and the size of this forum, I think that anyone who chimes in here is brave. Let's be gentle on ourselves and share in this safe space what we feel inspired to share -- that very personal decision that only God (through the guidance of the Church!) can bring us to.
to you all.
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Erica Sanchez
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I appreciate everyone's thoughts so very much. I think I could have stayed on topic a bit more in beginning (!), but because the issue, all of it, to use or not to use, trust, planning, control, God's timing, is so very much on my mind these past few weeks/months, I may have written too much about my own 'issues' and not given any real advice.
I have to run to pick up my girls from dance.
I feel very blessed to be a part of this amazing group of women!
Praying for everyone!
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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kristinannie
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cathhomeschool wrote:
I struggled with this for a long time -- what will others (especially Catholic homeschoolers) think about how many children we have even though they don't know our "story?" Ultimately, it was my pride that was at the root of that struggle. Now I am more gentle on myself and I try to remember that God knows our hearts and our story and it doesn't matter what others think about my family size or anything else. After all, He created us and brought my family together. We try to follow Him and that is all.
to you all. |
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I had to laugh when I read this because I am worried about what people think from the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't know anyone with more than 4 kids (not even at our church). God keeps putting the number 6 into my head. I keep imagining myself with 6 kids, driving a bus and taking up an entire pew at church! I keep thinking that people will think I am crazy and talk behind my back.
That is kind of ironic since the decision to homeschool is going to cause the same response with a lot of people! 
Anyway, I really thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for being open to having this discussion and for everyone writing in terms that won't offend others. I can see how this is a sensitive issue.
The more I pray about it (and I have been praying about it several times a day), the more I realize that I just need to let God work in my life. A few weeks ago at church, I just totally submitted to Him. I said, "Just tell me what to do and I will do it." This is the first thing I have encountered since then that has given me a chance to do just that. I have accepted it now. I am just praying that my DH will be open to this and will listen to God's call as well.
You ladies are such a blessing in my life. I don't have any seriously Catholic friends IRL so it is so helpful to be able to get spiritual advice from people who are truly a blessing to me.
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Lisbet
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kristinannie wrote:
I keep thinking that people will think I am crazy and talk behind my back. |
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They will - no matter what. No kids, two kids, ten kids, twenty kids, people from both ends of the spectrum will talk, and they will say mean, hurtful, and stupid things.
Erica, when I spoke of 'God spacing' I wasn't only referring to couples that don't "plan." If husband and wife are taking the matter to God and acting according to their prayerful discernment to postpone conception, that is no less "God spacing". NFP is certainly a gift to the Church and marriage. I only take issue to the promotion of NFP as a 'requirement' for a Catholic marriage. (no one here has done that.)
I have been part of so many of these conversations - good, bad, and plain 'ole ugly. I don't get it. Sure, I am a cheerleader for big families, I like to encourage younger, smaller families along as they grow. But it's none of my business how many or why. (Good grief - I've got more than enough of my own "how many and why" business to attend to!!) Individual families need to become as big as God is asking them to become, the only requirement is that we keep our heart open to His voice. Easier said than done...I know.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Erica Sanchez
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Thanks, Lisa. It's hard to have this conversation because, like others have said, there are just so many layers, so many situations, so many variables. I've only seen the conversations go bad when someone says or implies that there should be no NFP use at all. No one is saying that here. I appreciate your including a postponment decision in 'God-spacing'. That is a nice way to look at it and brings me a peace that I haven't felt in a while.
I was laughing and crying while typing my posts and reading others. It's all so serious, but funny, too. God is in control no matter what I try to do.
God bless you all!
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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JodieLyn
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I'm in the difficult position of having an early return of cycles as well.. seriously early. The latest has been 8.5 weeks. Honestly I love the times when it's been less than 8 weeks.. NFP rules say I can ignore that first cycle. 
Any emotionally laden topic can be hard to talk about.. and what can be more emotional than our children, how many, how often, how many losses.. because when you start looking at spacing, people might assume you purposely delayed when in fact you lost a child in the gap, those with the pain of not being able to concieve easily, those with the pain of needing to choose based on other factors to delay with NFP. The impact on marriages and relationships.. it's all just incredibly touchy.
And so nice when we can reach out to each other without judging each other.
For myself I found a huge relief and clarity when I realized that everyone pounding it into my head through school etc while I was growing up had it wrong (imo). That we weren't to avoid conception until we were "ready" for another child.. and of course there's no agreement on what "ready" might be.. some people would have you think that it's such a high ideal that most people (including me) would never get to that point.
What I saw as a flash of insight was that using NFP to delay conception was not the "default" for lack of a better word. We didn't NEED (were required) to wait until we were "ready" to stop avoiding. No, we would/could use NFP when we knew there was a GOOD (just) reason for needing to avoid conception but not just habitually (which is different than using it for long periods of time for a just reason).
The funny thing was that it didn't really change much except how I thought about it.
NFP can be a huge blessing.. and a cross.. ever need to use NFP when your dh is only home 2 weekends a month (or less)? It can be really hard on the relationship even when you're in agreement.
There's lots of the little internet/email stories that address how if we really knew the difficulties others had we'd pick to bear our own.
As one who's unexpectedly (we'd been told there might be a problem for us to have any) had many children in less years than most. Without any sign of the lower fertility that everyone says happens as you get older. It can be overwhelming and easy to think that someone who has their cycles suppressed by breastfeeding for years, and then takes a while to get pregnant has it easier. While they could be hurting just as much because they'd dearly love to have more children and find someone that can have many close together without apparent issue incredibly lucky.
I find the best way to help myself spiritually consider NFP use (to avoid or acheieve conception or not to use it at all) is through prayer and discussion with my dh. And to always go with the one who is feeling a need not to change the family makeup at the moment. It's my experience that someone feeling overwhelmed when given a bit of space can recover where forcing an issue would only create more problems.
And when using NFP to avoid I also like to contemplate 1Cor7:5 that says "do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time to be free for prayer" Such a good reminder that whatever need we have for use of NFP should be taken to prayer, and that NFP itself provides us with that "freedom" to pray.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Natural Family Planning?
