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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
Let's move this part of the discussion to the high school forum. I love to talk Sonlight with Bookswithtea--we've a lot of history together and it's all good.  |
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In a current thread about Catholic Lit Based "in a box" curriculum, the thread quickly turned toward discussing Catholicizing Sonlight...and then it rabbit trailed into Catholicizing Sonlight for high school.  Don't you just love rabbit trails?
Turns out both Elizabeth and I are thinking Sonlight for our next few high schoolers-to-be. Both of us have used bits and pieces of SL for many years, and often tweak it beyond recognition, but are still glad to have SL do the gruntwork first. All three of us (Elizabeth, Cactus Mouse and I) were regulars on the SL Catholic list for years. I (and I think, Elizabeth, too ) have definitely had my moments of frustration with SL over the years...but it has a certain something that calls to me, particularly when my children are tired of Five in a Row, which I use with elem. aged children. I especially like the middle school/high school levels.
Other points mentioned in the other thread:
*Several of us are still looking for better high school science options
*Teaching Textbooks works for high school, but some have concerns that it may not be difficult enough.
*Martha asked Elizabeth to tell us more about Kolbe's lit guides and how she wants to use them alongside SL's lit.
*I asked Elizabeth if she is concerned about the lack of classic literature in the lower high school SL levels.
*There is also more to discuss about using the Didache series alongside SL for high school level religion, particularly the Church history book in conjunction with core 200 (which is Sonlight's "Kingdom History" program).
*Please forgive me, but someone else whose name escapes me at the moment asked about core 200 and Catholicism in particular.
I think that summarizes where we are at.
Let's talk!
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Elizabeth
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 Thanks, Books!
back when i have two free hands...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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folklaur
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I utilized the Community College for Lab Sciences. That is my plan for my other children too. Now, up until that point...
I loved-loved-loved TT for dd19, and am giddy that now ds is at the level for TT5, and am giddy that he will be able to use it all the way through. Giddy. There is no other word for it - TT makes me giddy.
We did core 200 w/o tweaking it hardly at all, just adding in some Catholic Apologetics. It was one of our favorite years - BUT - She was my only homeschooler at the time, we had TONS of time for discussion, and she had a very strong understanding her Catholic faith.
But - now with Didache as an option (it wasn't out when we did it)- I think using that core will be really really fantastic.
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Bookswithtea
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RE: Core 200 and being Catholic, I think its definitely doable for a Catholic family. But, it does require mom being involved a lot, and a lot of legwork over the summer in pre-reading and finding alternatives.
Not all families would even want to do this. We have a lot of protestant friends and family. Actually, we have very few Catholic relatives at all, but I digress. For us, it makes sense to do a side by side study of Catholicism and Protestantism because I want my kids to know exactly why we are no longer protestant, and why their friends and family believe as they do. I don't like to use books that quickly brush off protestant viewpoints with short quippy answers. Imho, this isn't going to help any protestant understand if they ask us for the hope that lies within us. I also have a healthy love of theology, so the extra planning involved in this is fun for me.
That said, I can really see why other families might not feel the need to do a study like this. If your children aren't in circles where they are running into other varieties of Christian often, or if they are just not the kind of child who needs detailed answers to theological questions, it might be worth considering just skipping over this core, altogether.
I'm not sure how many others are actually interested in discussing this core in particular. That might need another thread of its own...
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Bookswithtea
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cactus mouse wrote:
We did core 200 w/o tweaking it hardly at all, just adding in some Catholic Apologetics. It was one of our favorite years - BUT - She was my only homeschooler at the time, we had TONS of time for discussion, and was very strong in understanding her Catholic faith.
But - now with Didache as an option (it wasn't out when we did it)- I think using that core will be really really fantastic. |
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Did you do the study on the Westminster Shorter Catechism? I am on the fence about using this to represent protestantism alongside a Catholic equivalent. Most of the protestants I know are evangelicals, while the Westminster Catechism represents Calvinists/Reformed Christianity. I suppose there is some wisdom in finding something that represents both this side of protestantism as well as evangelicalism, but that makes it feel like more work, to me. Otoh, its just as irritating to a non Catholic Christian to have assumptions made about what they believe as it is for us. So maybe its worth it to find a representation for all three? 
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| no i mean the jr. high lit guide and the saints bio guide. many of those books are easily high school level. sorry for my lack of clarity. i hope kolbe comes up with similar literature guides for high school. |
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I have the older jr. high lit guide and that's what I used exclusively for 9th grade. Very doable, understandable and many of the selections are definitely high school level. I also enjoyed their Catholic take that wasn't overbearing, but really thoughtful. Also, they aren't excessively challenging for the child who hates writing (I imagine that talented high school writers might find the essays and tests easy, though). I'm still not sure about how to incorporate that, though. The more I think about it, the more I am thinking this line up for my 3 girls:
9th grade: core 7/World History
10th grade: core 100/I'd like to include more American lit with this
11th grade: core 200/beefed up to include English Lit
12th grade: Govt/Econ, but not sure what I am going to use for that.
I am going to skip 300 altogether for my girls, although I may pull out a few of the readers and replace a few of the core 7 ones that are perhaps too easy for 9th grade. I wonder if it would be worth it to buy something to help with American and English lit as go alongs, if there isn't enough in the Kolbe Jr. High Lit guides?
Gotta go do naptime...I'l be back later with my Kolbe guides and SL Catalogue in hand...
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folklaur
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Did you do the study on the Westminster Shorter Catechism? I am on the fence about using this to represent protestantism alongside a Catholic equivalent. Most of the protestants I know are evangelicals, while the Westminster Catechism represents Calvinists/Reformed Christianity. I suppose there is some wisdom in finding something that represents both this side of protestantism as well as evangelicalism, but that makes it feel like more work, to me. Otoh, its just as irritating to a non Catholic Christian to have assumptions made about what they believe as it is for us. So maybe its worth it to find a representation for all three? |
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Not really - and we still had quite a full year.
Protestantism is so fluid, so personal, with so many differeing beliefs. I didn't think that this one catechism would really be a "representation" of Protestantism, especially not of those found within our extanded family.
We looked through it, too see what *it* said, but didn't use it as a "This is what Protestants believe" kind of thing.
I hope I am making sense. This was quite a few years ago - I better remember what we DID use, then what we tossed.....if that makes sense.. 
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Martha in VA
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A question to those of you who have used SL in the upper grades.....
Are there any quizzes or tests built into the upper levels of SL? Do you come up with your own? Maybe I'm in the minority about this but I believe test-taking to be a valuable skill for the student to learn. Thoughts?
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Bookswithtea
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Martha in VA wrote:
A question to those of you who have used SL in the upper grades.....
Are there any quizzes or tests built into the upper levels of SL? Do you come up with your own? Maybe I'm in the minority about this but I believe test-taking to be a valuable skill for the student to learn. Thoughts? |
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Nope. More writing assignments, instead (incorporated into the LA), asking the student sometimes to do extra research, too. I'm not opposed to test taking, but I think the drawback to tests is that its just too easy to short term memory/cram for them, and then forget. Research and writing means they haven't memorized material as broadly, probably, but what they know, they know well, and they know how to find out. I do know that moms on the forum sometimes write up tests for their kids and share them with others...
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Elizabeth
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Martha wrote:
Quote:
nak
no i mean the jr. high lit guide and the saints bio guide. many of those books are easily high school level. sorry for my lack of clarity. i hope kolbe comes up with similar literature guides for high school. |
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ahhh. enlightened now. thanks. 
what is you like about the middle school lit guides? I saw the online sample and didn't think it was really all that much for the price, but sometimes the samples really aren't the best.
I didn't get the 9th grade lit course plans, but if they are anything like the history plans, I regret it. The greek history plans are very much in depth guides to the books he will be reading. And the writing assignments are very good imho.
oh and kolbe is revamping and updating their entire program for highschool and middle school. this is the first time I've ever given them a second look, much less left like spending my money there. so far it looks like they are really going to be an amazing highschool program.
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I pulled Martha's quote from the other thread.
I know I had heard they were revamping. Do you know the timeframe? I would hold off on committing to Sonlight if Kolbe was going to be very different next year.
I like the novel guides for Jr. High and I think they are definitely suitable for high school.
There's a focus for the week's reading and an essay topic. Then each day is broken down and I'm provided with a brief summary of each day's reading. That's really useful for making sure they (a) read it and (b) got what they were supposed to get out of it.
As I sat to write this for you, I flipped through the guide. I have a hunch that different authors wrote different guides. I'm using the guide to The Screwtape Letters right now and I'm well pleased with the notes. Glancing through Robinson Crusoe, they don't look nearly as useful. hmmm.
That said, I used Sonlight for high school about five years ago. I remember having to pull from Progeny Press and web resources to discuss the books with the teens in my co-op group. Sonlight's notes were inadequate.Now...if several of us could agree on a core, I see the potential for us to help each other shore up Sonlight's guides and fill in the gaps.
This time, I'm not trying to run a discussion group. My student is reading and writing a short narration and then doing the essay topic. The guide dovetails nicely...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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cactus mouse wrote:
Protestantism is so fluid, so personal, with so many differing beliefs. I didn't think that this one catechism would really be a "representation" of Protestantism, especially not of those found within our extanded family.
We looked through it, too see what *it* said, but didn't use it as a "This is what Protestants believe" kind of thing. |
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I agree.
cactus mouse wrote:
I hope I am making sense. This was quite a few years ago - I better remember what we DID use, then what we tossed.....if that makes sense.. |
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If you get a chance, do you want to share what you did use and what you liked? I flipped through my catalogue a little earlier today and realized there is a lot of crossover between the Kolbe books and core 200. It would the easiest core of all to add in/drop some books and use Kolbe with, imho.
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 26 2009 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
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Hmmm... I wonder if it would be helpful to open a thread for each of Sonlight's high school cores?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Hmmm... I wonder if it would be helpful to open a thread for each of Sonlight's high school cores? |
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Maybe let's see if there is special interest in one, first? Which ones are you tentatively planning on using?
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 26 2009 at 3:25pm | IP Logged
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Let's do a thread on pulling together 200 with Kolbe and Didache..
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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ALmom
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I don't do sonlight so I don't want to jump in on this thread (just lurking), but if someone wants more info about what is in Kolbe, I'm happy to provide. They are wrapping up the 11th and 12th grade re-writes now. I modify heavily in the 9th. I don't use very many of their literature tests. Study guide usage is optional around here. I have one child who finds it helpful so she uses it - others have not at all. We use the EES services (that has been wonderful for us because I'm not a good evaluator or guide in writing but something most of you authors would not need, probably) and they evaluate whatever written work I assign whether it is in their plans or not. I use a number of paper topics - this saves me the most time and these tend to require a reflection on the work in light of Catholic Christain faith - something I really appreciate. I add in a few of my own in history because I see the weakest element is in merging Biblical/Church history with secular history. We use RChistory interwoven with Kolbe and use map work from Our Father's House and RChistory - plus timelines to pull it all together.
That being said, I think I use Kolbe a lot differently than Kolbe does and it sounds more akin to descriptions here - only with the Catholic laid out and supplemented with other resources. There are quite a few lectures on CD/DVD now as well and much more information on historical context. I still use RC history and Kolbe woven together along with my own - but then I like planning history.
A great number of the classic works are being sold with study guides in Ignatius Press now so this may be a great place to look for additional Catholic reflection if that is what you are trying to add to sl.
What say anything else unless specifically asked since this is about sl - just thought I could shed light on the one question about Kolbe and Catholic lit guides.
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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Funny thing...I just checked my mail and my new Sonlight Catalogue is here. 
I'm going to have a cuppa and see if there are any changes in the high school cores to report.
Be back later!
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msclavel
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I will be following this (and maybe I can even contribute something helpful) as I will have a high schooler next year.
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Kristie 4
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Ditto for me what Maria said....just got the Sonlight mag in the mail....
Do you veterans think Core 300 would be too much for an avid reading 9th grader??
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Bookswithtea
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Kristie 4 wrote:
Do you veterans think Core 300 would be too much for an avid reading 9th grader?? |
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I briefly reviewed core 300 in the original thread. I read tonight that its been changed, but when I looked at it, the books I was thinking about are still there. There is no way I would use or recommend this core to a 9th grade of either gender. I was originally planning to use a modified version (meaning I cut several books and cut back on the LA significantly) with a 15 yr old boy who is an extremely strong reader and is also not even remotely squeamish.
hope this helps.
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Bookswithtea
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Let's do a thread on pulling together 200 with Kolbe and Didache.. |
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OK, that works for me.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Sonlight for High School
