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Willa
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Continuing this discussion
MacBeth wrote:
Eleanor, I'm totally going to bite here  . I read the brief overview of Normalization from the article you linked, and I have a quick question:
Is the purpose of the Montessori method education, or behavior modification? |
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montessori_lori
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I hope Eleanor responds here, because I think she'll have some great things to say.
In the 3-6 classroom, the child is learning all the time. So most definitely education is going on. That's definitely one of the most important parts of Montessori.
As far as behavior, there's no behavior modification - it's the opposite. The child, when given lovely materials in a respectful environment, reveals characteristics (the ability to concentrate, love of order) that are always present but not always showing.
In other words, the Montessori environment lets the child be his/her best self, naturally, without any pressure or coercion from the adult. No one is modifying (changing) them.
I'm sure someone else has a better way of explaining, but it's been a long day :)
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Eleanor
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But we also know that Montessori does change their behavior... so I guess you could say it involves both of the above. As NAMTA (North American Montessori Teachers Association) puts it, "children in a Montessori classroom learn by making discoveries with the materials, cultivating concentration, motivation, self-discipline, and a love of learning."
"Behavior modification" is a loaded term, though, and it usually refers to methods based on external punishments or rewards. Maria Montessori didn't approve of either of these; in fact, in her writings, she goes on at length about how dreadful they are. (I get a mental image of her scolding me in Italian.) In her system of education, positive reinforcement comes from the child's inner satisfaction at a job well done, or a skill mastered, or a concept understood.
One of her major innovations was to provide a "prepared environment," which is set up to be enticing to the children and to maximize their chances of success (through color-coded materials, exercises broken down into simple steps, etc.). The children are directed by an adult who serves as a role model, and is also skilled in the art of knowing when to intervene and when to sit on her hands. It takes years of practice to learn how to do nothing when a child is about to spill something. 
Somehow this all works. It's pretty magical. As I understand it, Dr. Montessori wasn't a practicing Catholic when she began her work, but she was converted back to the faith through her discoveries about this "secret of childhood," as she called it. On watching the children, she realized that there must be an inner divine spark that was directing them to choose the good with such clarity and consistency.
(Speaking of clarity and consistency, I'm personally lacking in both right now. It's taking me ages, and multiple edits, just to write a coherent sentence. And the housekeeping isn't going much better. All these discussions are great, but I need to take a break until I'm caught up on sleep... about two weeks worth.  )
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Mary G
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I'm just curious, WHY childhood (really, toddler-hood) needs to be so orchestrated. I can see in a classroom/daycare type setting, the need for order and an un-chaotic atmosphere is important, but why wouldn't just free-exploration of these manipulatives be appropriate, especially in a home-setting?
The "real" Montessori stuff is expensive, but suitable real things could be substituted, couldn't they? Like, instead of a dress-board, have them dress their dolls or their younger siblings .... have them practice pouring imaginary water/tea until they are a little more steady.
Does MM ever allow for CM-like "masterly inactivity" where the adult stands back and just lets the little ones go?
I can understand Atrium and some of the things for the 4-6yo group, but younger than this .... I just think they need to play and explore and discover as long as they're not hurting themselves or anyone else. Little ones are so ready to imitate what they see others do ... that's how my kids learned the life skills.
I'm just curious ... my youngest is almost 6 so it's a bit of a moot point for us, but I'm curious what the "draw" is?
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CatholicMommy
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It is definitely about free exploration. The child is given a "presentation" (shown how to do something in a particular manner such that the child sees the highlights) - then is free to work on his/her own. As long as the child is not being destructive or disrespectful, free exploration is encouraged.
Also the "typical" school environment is only 3 hours a day - with the rest of the day spent with family, friends, etc. at home or out in the world. These times are definitely geared for real life exploration as well.
Does that help?
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missionfamily
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montessori_lori wrote:
As far as behavior, there's no behavior modification - it's the opposite. The child, when given lovely materials in a respectful environment, reveals characteristics (the ability to concentrate, love of order) that are always present but not always showing.
In other words, the Montessori environment lets the child be his/her best self, naturally, without any pressure or coercion from the adult. No one is modifying (changing) them.
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OKay, my confusion is that the montessori activities for the littlies seem to me to do exactly the opposite of what you are saying, Lori.
I understand how continent boxes or three part cards demonstrated and then used properly could provide what you describe for the older child.
But for three year olds, giving them particular activities and materials to be used only in one specific manner feels to me exactly like "pressure and corecion from the adult" and the opposite of natural.
I'm attracted to the idea of providing montessori activities for my young ones but have been reluctant to really learn more about the specifics because I think my own instincts of what I could throw in the tray to engage that child and leave him with hours of uninterrupted extension are better than the heavily scripted plans I could imitate. Does that make sense?
I'm not dissing montessori, I hope you realize. I just really have struggled to try to understand this.
Why is a tray of rice with really expensive pouring tools and a certain way of using it better than a rubbermaid tub full of rice, a bunch of pouring and sifting tools, squirt bottles full of colored water, and a vinyl tablecloth to catch the spills? I just don't get it.
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Mary G
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missionfamily wrote:
I'm attracted to the idea of providing montessori activities for my young ones but have been reluctant to really learn more about the specifics because I think my own instincts of what I could throw in the tray to engage that child and leave him with hours of uninterrupted extension are better than the heavily scripted plans I could imitate. Does that make sense?
I'm not dissing montessori, I hope you realize. I just really have struggled to try to understand this.
Why is a tray of rice with really expensive pouring tools and a certain way of using it better than a rubbermaid tub full of rice, a bunch of pouring and sifting tools, squirt bottles full of colored water, and a vinyl tablecloth to catch the spills? I just don't get it. |
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Remembering WHY MM first got started might help a bit with all this. MM was trying to help the disenfranchised child in Italy learn the skills for learning and life that they wouldn't learn at home for varying reasons. Having my child help me gets them learning not only the skill but the WHY ... so having them measure the rice into a pot using my tools seems more logical, reasonable, useful than setting up an articifical environment.
I guess where I'm coming from ... and I think I'll start a new thread on this ... is the difference between fitting a school-system (whether it's old-style Catholic school, public school, MM, CM or Waldorf), a system that was created and works in a school-setting ... fitting one of those into my home or allowing myself and my children to see what works best in our setting and doing that ...
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CrunchyMom
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In our home, we do focus on life skills and haven't really made it with "prepared work" much. So, my children help grate carrots or cheese or flip pancakes, etc...
However, for me, the difference what Colleen is describing and the Montessori approach in my head is the expectation--and how the materials given influence the child.
I kind of go back and forth with how much I can handle regarding spills and things, but for example, I bought some nice child-sized enamelware cups that we use and most meals. But this morning at breakfast, I gave them the tupperware cups with lids and straws for their milk. Granted, there were fewer spills because of the lids, but since the expectation (not really in anything I said, just in what the plastic/lid/straw imply in and of themselves) was that they would be reckless, they were. The boys knocked around and played with the cups in a manner that they do not when confronted with the possibility of spills.
So, if the materials are beautiful and neatly presented, there is something inherent that encourages the child to focus harder on keeping them that way than they might otherwise.
I know that when I am able to actively keep my home in better order, my rowdy boys are more enthusiastic and understand better how to contribute to keeping it such. Once things get out of control, they are more likely to be sloppy themselves and contribute more to the mess.
Now, I do focus on life skills in the way that Mary G describes--in a way that seems more natural in the home setting, but I can also see a difference, even in my home, in how my children would react differently to a neat tray of rice with a clear purpose and their sandbox outside. I can see that they would both have a place in a child's life filling different kinds of needs.
I think for me, we find the rice tray activities in real life home activities. If my children are helping me cook, the scooping of flour, etc... demands a similar kind of attention to precision and neatness that a rice tray does. Very different from the sandbox which also sees frequent use!
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CrunchyMom
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I cross posted with Mary G., but she said what I was trying to say much more succintly
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missionfamily
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Okay, so if my 30 month old is in the kitchen with me every time I cook... and he is...and he is pouring, scooping, stirring, washing, wiping, sweeping....and then he is spending time on the back deck in his space every day with a wading pool full of water one week, sand the next, rocks another time, rice in between and lots of creative ways to use it....
then the advantage to also presenting a specific montessori activity be.....?
I guess if it did work and keep him engaged and focused while the others were tryign to be productive that would be an amzing blessing. But I sort of think that expectation sets us up for the frustration we are seeing in the original question about "normalization". A two and half year old who is not inclined to do specifically what I suggest is "doing it wrong", must be redirected, and I am frustrated. That's what makes me shy away from the specific presentations.
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montessori_lori
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From Eleanor: "Behavior modification" is a loaded term, though, and it usually refers to methods based on external punishments or rewards. Maria Montessori didn't approve of either of these; in fact, in her writings, she goes on at length about how dreadful they are."
This is exactly what I was trying to say; I knew Eleanor would say it better :)
Being in a Montessori classroom definitely influences a child's behavior; we wouldn't bother with Montessori otherwise. But not in the way the term "behavior modification" is usually used.
I found that parents with questions like these were infinitely helped by observing a 3-6 class for a day; we can explain and explain with words, but unless you see it it's difficult to really understand.
All this:
"pouring, scooping, stirring, washing, wiping, sweeping....and then he is spending time on the back deck in his space every day with a wading pool full of water one week, sand the next, rocks another time, rice in between and lots of creative ways to use it..."
is fantastic, and Montessori teachers always hope that parents do that sort of thing at home. But specific presentations provide the child with the chance to follow directions (an important skill) and get some sort of feedback which is built into the materials (called control of error).
In addition to observing a classroom, I recommend a book like "How to Raise an Amazing Child the Montessori Way" by Tim Seldin; it's a great overview with lots of beautiful pictures so you can see what he's talking about. And the Michael Olaf catalog for 0-6 also has gorgeous pictures and well-written text about the "why" behind Montessori. You can request a free catalog from them at their website michaelolaf.net.
And, as my Montessori director used to say, "Montessori is for every child, but not every parent." Some people either just don't like it, or don't get it, which is fine. I do think they should observe a classroom first before making up their minds, though.
This: "giving them particular activities and materials to be used only in one specific manner feels to me exactly like "pressure and corecion from the adult" and the opposite of natural" is not what Maria Montessori observed. She found that children hungered to be given very precise presentations. "The Absorbent Mind" by Dr. Montessori is her book describing her experiences. It's really amazing.
One of the things I admire most about Maria is that she left her own prejudices behind and just watched the children. I think as adults, we bristle at some of the ideas in Montessori and conclude that they're inaccurate, just because they don't "sound" right to us. The best thing to do is observe a Montessori classroom with an open mind, and then draw conclusions based on observation, rather than emotion.
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Meredith
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missionfamily wrote:
| I guess if it did work and keep him engaged and focused while the others were tryign to be productive that would be an amazing blessing. But I sort of think that expectation sets us up for the frustration we are seeing in the original question about "normalization". A two and half year old who is not inclined to do specifically what I suggest is "doing it wrong", must be redirected, and I am frustrated. That's what makes me shy away from the specific presentations. |
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First of all, it might be important for you to discern whether you even want to incorporate Montessori into your child's learning at all. It sounds to me as though you have an aversion to the method in and of itself and possibly this is giving you some roadblocks to really seeing the many benefits Montessori can give your small children??? Just a thought.
Another suggestion I might have is that for a 30 month old, very little "tray work" is initiated at this stage. Practical life is heavily emphasized and it sounds like you've got that covered with the above mentioned activities. Keep in mind too that any Montessori intoduction into the home environment is vastly different than a 3 hour school environment.
You might enjoy reading Montessori Play and Learn by Lesley Britton, her ideas for the 2-3 year range are delightful and very doable in a home education setting.
Blessings,
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Meredith
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I forgot to mention this great blog for toddler ideas:
Chasing Cheerios
I think it's been mentioned here before, but it's worth revisiting, she's got some fun things going on with her adorable little one!
Blessings,
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missionfamily
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I didn't mean to highjack the thread completetly, sorry...and I didn't mean to turn the discussion into a practical one about my personal situation (because then we'd have to move this thread again )...I know you guys have contributed extensively to the archive at the preschool forum and I could search there.
I guess I was more trying to use my personal situation to hash out a philosophical question. I really am a bit confused about the montessori philosophy for the youngest children...what is the benefit of "normalization" so to speak as opposed to open-ended creativity? How are these activities natural and not coercive if we initiate them and set the parameters for how they are to be done?
I'm wondering if it really is an instinctual aversion on my part or if I'm misunderstanding. That's why I asked the questions.
Feel free to move in the discussion however. I'm afraid I may be moving it in the wrong direction.
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montessori_lori
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missionfamily, your questions are great and I apologize if I sound defensive; I've been in Montessori for so long, it just makes sense to me, so it's hard for me to put myself in someone else's shoes.
Let me explain this way: it sounds like you're thinking that in a "cart and horse" scenario, the teacher comes first (the horse), presents the materials, sets the parameters, and the student follows. That is how traditional education is done.
In Montessori, the child is the horse and the teacher is the cart. Maria didn't start off her first school by giving precise presentations; rather, she observed that the children themselves yearned for order and precision. They showed her; she didn't show them.
We are responding the kids' natural instincts in Montessori, rather than forcing our own upon them. To really understand that, though, you have to realize that most people assume kids are naturally messy and if you want them to be neat, you're forcing them to. What Montessori teachers around the world discover is that kids are naturally neat, but most of the time their environment doesn't enable them to show that trait.
A Montessori classroom is set up to bring out the best in a child - not create something in them that isn't there in the first place. Does that make sense?
And it doesn't mean that they can't be messy or make a mess - far from it. Just that when finished, they will easily be able to clean up because the clean-up is built into the materials and they are given everything they need to be able to clean up themselves.
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Milehimama
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My children free play quite a bit - I see the Montessori activities as a way to teach them a specific skill in a self correcting kind of way.
Yes, they play, scoop, pour water in the sink and tub, but the Montessori Pouring Activity teaches them control of error, so that they can get a drink without spilling, for example. And also how to take care of any spills.
The control required (do not overfill, do not let the pitchers touch or clink, etc.) also encourages concentration.
It is a PART of their play, a supplement, not a replacement for free play.
I think one of my problems IS that I've been using it as busywork. I've confused "prepared environment" with "controlled environment".
Because I can't leave many of the works out, I've been selecting ones I think she'd like or should do... I think I will make a picture album flip book, and let her choose which activity to do. I simply cannot keep all of the activities out on the shelf.
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missionfamily
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Lori--THank you....you made perfect sense and the fog is clearing a bit.
Now I'm interested in hearing the rest of the discussion.
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I think this conversation is going to distill itself down to one thing: perspective.
Let me explain mine. I think I'd place myself in the Montessori camp in the sense that I have found the philosophy to be a beautiful one that really speaks to me in a beautiful way. However, I've never been a purist in anything I do in homeschooling. I find beauty in Charlotte Mason, unschooling, classical and Montessori. I have never found a single one to contradict the other, because as most of us here, I take that which is true, beautiful and noble from each philosophy and then I may bend it to fit my family and their needs. Each philosophy addresses education in a unique way, but each has within it truth that makes it universal. Montessori is no exception.
How each of these philosophies *translate* into our individual homeschools may be different. Some of us choose not to translate a particular method at all because of our own individual teaching style. It doesn't negate the truth or universality of that method. So, our perspectives may be different and we bring those perspectives to this discussion attempting to extract the definition of "Normalization" in the truest Montessori sense of the word.
I love how Lori has characterized the use of Montessori's philosophy. It isn't about forcing anything. In fact, it really is the anti-thesis of forcing.
Perhaps, the troubling aspect of this is providing a term, a label (something we all eschew) to something most of us do in the home already - allowing freedom within limits - this is Montessori, observing the child - this is Montessori, responding to the child's cues - this is Montessori, beauty of environment - this, too is Montessori. I can see and appreciate elements of Charlotte Mason, unschooling, etc. in theses aspects as well.
The way in which Montessori materials are presented is one of my favorite parts of Montessori. It all boils down to providing the tools a child needs to explore a concept in a beautiful and attractive way. Montessorians arent' the tray gestapo
Normalization is a term I do not care for (I think perhaps I just do not care for the label). I do understand the definition or purpose of it - boundaries are needed in everything. That is such a Catholic thought. Once a child recognizes those boundaries, there is a freedom given that allows a child's expression, creativity and intelligence to blossom. I set the boundaries and they are reasonable. My children are allowed to re-define those boundaries with materials as long as the work furthers their exploration of a material. I have a child that not only responds to this, but craves it. God hardwired him that way. He needs a certain freedom to express himself and explore, but without clear boundaries he self-destructs.
In all things, balance. Virtue lies in the middle. When it comes to a younger child (age 0-3ish) I, like many of you, believe that child needs time to explore and be creative - to be a child. But, there is a need to provide some purposeful work. If you want to call it Montessori - fine. If you need to just say the child is learning alongside you - also fine. I don't buy Montessori dressing boards - we have clothes. I don't have a Montessori "practical life" set up in my learning room - we've got the kitchen. Again, it's about how we translate this philosophy into our homes. Montessori at home will and should look different than it does in a Montessori school. And my Montessori environment at home looks different than Meredith's or Theresa's because we're each reaching different children.
Young children do need time to just "be", but I do set out some activities in the learning room just for my 3yo. He wants something purposeful to do along with the other children. Nothing rigorous is required. I don't hover over him with a stopwatch and a clipboard. At that age his trays might consist of 6 boxes of wooden marbles and some pretty porcelain bowls and scoops (picked up at the thrift store of course) for scooping. He loves activities like this. He gets his tray out when he likes, and puts it away when he likes. If he didn't enjoy the work, I'd put it away. Perhaps he'd rather scoop with more purpose in the kitchen with me, or maybe, like milehimama's dd, he wanted more room to be creative with those wooden marbles. It's all about observing and adjusting to meet his needs as he is communicating them. Another example of a "tray" or work center...his scissors. JP loves cutting work. He has a small basket with little scissors and scrap paper for cutting. He loves it. He gets out his basket, quietly sits down on his rug or at the table, cuts, scoops up the scraps into the trashcan, puts his scissors back into the basket and returns it all to the shelf. Montessorians would call this "Normalization" - I do not. I call it the rhythm of life in our home.
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Mackfam
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Ok - I just looked at the length of my post...so much for my medal in self-restraint.  Sorry, everyone. I was just trying to catch up. 
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And, just because I think it bears repeating in this thread - Lori's post on the qualities of a 'Normalized' child. She mentioned it earlier, Dr. Montessori's original term loses something in the translation:
Quoting from the last comment from her post. Salvo Menza:
Quote:
Hi, I'm italian and I'm currently reading Maria Montessori in italian ( L'autoeducazione ).
Well, she writes "bambino normalizzato" ('normalized child') and "normalizzazione". Also in nowadays italian those words might be misunderstood, much as in english, as Lori says in her post (by the way: it's wonderful). Thus the english translation sticks to the original word both morphologically and etymologically.
I would like to underline, howerver, that the link to the word normale/normal seems to be explicitly wanted by M. Montessori. And her perspective was different from ours: she was not worry about misunderstanding. Rather, she even seems to me to be aiming at changing the current meaning of the word alongside with what people feel and think as 'normal': she challenges the common assumption about normality in general (and in children). In her opinion, a child (a man) with the "sterling qualities" cited by Lori are just normal, not special. Those who don't display those qualities are compared to flowers or trees grown up in a place not suited for them, without enough light or water, and the like. Such flowers and trees won't blossom as they would, so they are not normal. In the sense that they did not develop their real self. They are not what they are supposed to be, what they were born to be (a slight catholic flavor could be present in such an idea of normality). For natural sciences (and statistics), instead, normality often is just the most common and widespread actually displayed behavior observed in a certain environment. Unfortunately, common sense still seems to stick to this latter idea of normality, and prejudice overlaps with (and overcomes) objective observation.
In fact, e.g. in my country, a child is considered normal if he is bored by school, if he does not love order, if he does not like concentrating, if he is not curious about science, nature and so on, because the majority of children displays the same behaviors (think of a traditional classroom...)
Normalized children, in turn, would often be considered strange, or special.
Salvo Menza |
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: What is Normalization?
