| Author | |
earthmaven
Forum Pro
Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 9:20am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I'm hoping the more biology-savvy among you can help me here. I'm looking for the best kingdoms of life charts I can find, but my research has raised a point of confusion for me.
I always thought there were 5 kingdoms, and it seems as though that's what all the charts say. But I'm running into different names, and even places that say there are six kingdoms now, not five, that they list as:
I. Archaea
II. Monera
III. Protista
IV. Fungi
V. Plantae
VI. Animalia
Other sites have the first kingdom listed as Prokaryotae (which includes Archaea and Monera), and the second kingdom as Protista.
So please, help me get this straight. I'm learning (or re-learning) this along with the children and I want to get it right the first time!
Thanks,
Tracy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Meredith
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 08 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2355
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ooh, I'll be hoping Theresa pops in here  I'm with you Tracy, it's a bit confusing 
__________________
Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Excellent question.
To be honest, this is something taxonomists are still working out, as molecular data is providing more interesting information all the time.
There are several different schemes that are in favor, depending on who you ask.
Five kingdoms, which is kind of out-dated, largely due to the archeae, which were first though to be bacteria, and then molecular data proved they were something else entirely.Also because protista has never been a good group, but more of a catch-all for eukaryotic organisms that didn't fit into other groups.
Anyway, this lead to the proposal of the three domains system, which includes all eukaryotes together, bacteria (or eubacteria), and the archeae.
Ok, that's fine, but then you still have to decide on the number of kingdoms within Eukarya and that is a debate that rages on, largely, again due to the protista. Some folks lump them into one kingdom, some folks prefer to split them into many.
(sorry, this is probably more than you wanted to hear)
So... this is how I deal with it:
I teach 3 domains (Archaea, Eubacteria, Eukarya) AND 5 kingdom systems (monera, protista, fungi, plantia, animalia) with the understanding that the archeae are a seperate, but not yet definitive group, and that the protista are a group of convenience that is likely not monophyletic.
There are pretty good, very brief explanations here:
five kingdoms vs. three domains
and here:BioEd online
If you want more detailed references, let me know and I can pull them up for you.
I find it so exciting that there are fields of science that, even at the highest levels, remain open to new discovery!
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
earthmaven
Forum Pro
Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 10:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you so much, Theresa! And those links are really helpful. I KNEW you could set me straight!
And now one other question...Understanding, of course, the ongoing process of discovery in the field, could you recommend an up-to-date textbook or sourcebook that would help me study biology in preparation for upcoming years? I'd love to have one central "source" and complement it with all the great web resources that are out there. I'm still very much a book-at-the-breakfast-table-with-a-cup-of-tea kind of learner. 
Oh yeah, and of all the charts out there, is there one in particular you think would work best? I'd like to hang something in the dining room for the everyday questions that come up around here!
Thanks so much for all the help you give us all. I'm thinking of having you declared a national treasure.
Tracy 
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
~Rachel~
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 677
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 10:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Haven't they been arguing about this for YEARS now?
It always seems to be changing!
__________________
~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
earthmaven
Forum Pro
Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 10:55am | IP Logged
|
|
|
earthmaven wrote:
I'd like to hang something in the dining room for the everyday questions that come up around here! |
|
|
Wow, I'm just realizing that not everyone would consider a chart with that sort of thing appropriate to look at while eating, but it's our only free expanse of wall!
Tracy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 11:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
earthmaven wrote:
earthmaven wrote:
I'd like to hang something in the dining room for the everyday questions that come up around here! |
|
|
Wow, I'm just realizing that not everyone would consider a chart with that sort of thing appropriate to look at while eating, but it's our only free expanse of wall!
Tracy |
|
|
Funny, it doesn't seem a bit odd to me!
Tracy, let me do some looking around and I will get back with you on the references.
Rachel, yes, it has been going on since Linneaus! How wonderful that a steady stream of new information leads to greater understanding of the beauty and complexity of what God has created!
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Meredith
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 08 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2355
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 11:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
earthmaven wrote:
| Thanks so much for all the help you give us all. I'm thinking of having you declared a national treasure. |
|
|
Ditto what she said, I'll start the paper work
__________________
Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 11:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 11:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok. Here is what I use. I was hoping to find it cheaper online somewhere, but no luck.
Biology by Campbell and Reece
This is my favorite college-level textbook. It is kind of pricy, but it is extremely thorough. If you have a store that sells used college textbooks you might be able to pick one up rather cheaply.
Just be sure to get the newest edition you can. I think this particular text is up to 7th edition now, or maybe 8? I would look for no older than 5th edition.
Also, be sure it isn't the AP edition, but the college one (the AP edition is clearly marked on the front cover).
My suggestion for charts is to make your own based on the charts in the book. Let the kids cut out pictures from magazines, or print some up from online, or better yet go outside and take their own pictures to illustrate it. That's what we are doing.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
earthmaven
Forum Pro
Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Theresa, thanks for taking the time to research this for me. This book looks well worth the cost (when you consider how much we're saving in private school fees, it's even better!) We have a lot of university bookstores nearby (and even a couple of thrift stores with massive book departments!), so I'll keep my eyes open for a recent used edition.
And I love the idea of making our own charts--this is going to be such a fun journey!
Thanks again,
Tracy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
chicken lady
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2315
|
| Posted: Aug 08 2007 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Anyone else reading Greek here
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
~Rachel~
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 677
|
| Posted: Aug 09 2007 at 7:57am | IP Logged
|
|
|
lapazfarm wrote:
Ok. Here is what I use. I was hoping to find it cheaper online somewhere, but no luck.
Biology by Campbell and Reece
This is my favorite college-level textbook. It is kind of pricy, but it is extremely thorough. If you have a store that sells used college textbooks you might be able to pick one up rather cheaply. |
|
|
That was one of the textbooks I had as a college student (before I left to get married and have kids ).
I see it is one of the standard texts out there still... 
__________________
~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Aug 17 2007 at 2:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Does anyone know where you can get a cheap chart. I really just want a graphic with some definitions and cannot afford the textbook mentioned right now. The last I remember was 3 kingdoms and I still don't remember the breakdown after that so I have a lot to learn. I want to be able to do a lot of classifying and sorting while learning taxonomy and I need something like this to help me organize my stuff. And yes, we too, would hang it up in the kitchen for frequent viewing - or near our science files. I'm willing to purchase something like this. I also do not want a college biology text just around or my 10 yo will read it cover to cover (he only reads science like this) and I am sure there are things I'm not ready for him to learn just yet! If I have to draw the chart myself, it will be illegible and definitely not attractive (my handwriting and depth perception would really come into play here).
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 3:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok it is not that I don't want to do some research - but I cannot afford the college text now - and I need something for the uneducated. I looked at the references listed and I'm even more confused - not that I don't get the general gyst but I need something on a bit more elementary level for me to start out so I don't panic and get too frustrated and overwhelmed to do anything. I really have no background at all. I looked at one of the charts that were referenced and it had more names on it that I'd never heard of before and the breakdown of these kingdoms seemed to be based on a presumption of some evolutionary theory and how related these things were in the evolutionary scheme of things. I assume that may be why Theresa isn't jumping to teach all the numerous divisions there - but there must be something for dividing the way she does and then I'm wondering - who cares, if I go with the chart I have, it may be different when dc study it again with someone more experienced but then even if we change it to whatever the latest is now, it will still probably change by the time they study it under someone more experienced anyways. My whole perfectionist nature rebels at doing this (I am a stubborn soul and want to get it right), but I don't seem to have anything else to go on and if I start trying to split out monera and Archaea from my prokaryote chart - well I'm sure to botch it royally. The reality is that without something I can go with to guide me in this that doesn't take a ton of time, I'm more likely to freeze and do nothing. Of course, I am so clueless there may be tons of reasons I shouldn't just say - well kids this is what we have and btw a lot of real scientists are splitting up these bigger catch all kind of groups and if you want to do some research on it and update my chart - go for it, but right now I don't have enough time or info to figure it out, so this is the best I can do for the moment. Or - light bulb - I assume that somewhere in my chart, they do break down groups into archae and monera. If the animals in these haven't switched since 2001, then maybe we could just go with what we have - and use some sort of paper to correct our chart and make our own domain chart showing what falls under what domain - if someone will point me in the right direction here. I am assuming now that Archaea is a domain unto itself with no kingdoms under it and that monera falls under one of the other domains - (I'm just not sure - and definitely not sure which one).
I'm sure I probably need that college textbook at some point - but here is my big question. If I manage to get it, will I be able to follow it and will it be something I can tackle in a reasonable amount of time. I do get lost in high school texts - but then sometimes I really do find more detail better. I am really lost when it comes to science - and I think I freeze with science (except for the math part) like some folks do with math and when I was in school the teachers spent all the time explaining the math (which I didn't need help with) and very little explaining concepts/relationships or connections. In biology I just don't remember what we did - except most of the time I was frustrated because I never ever saw what I was supposed to see either in the microscope or in dissection.
Am I even in the ballpark with my ideas? My biggest concern is trying to change my chart and botching it royally because of my ignorance. Right now I'm looking at a chart that has 5 kingdoms - but they are called prokaryote and Protist and then all the usual. If I tried to modify this chart and just make something seperate with the domains as Theresa was talking about, then where do the different kingdoms fall. I think I can figure out fungi, plant and animal (from the linked chart if nothing else) but what about monera and protista. The other thing I don't know is if these critters have changed groups altogether since 2001 which is the copyright on my Albinese materials I was planning to use (and just bought this year - used).
I'm probably so lost that I am really revealing my ignorance. I don't want anyone to go to trouble but please do tell me if I'm going off the deep end. I don't want to teach outdated stuff - but if the person here hadn't posted, I simply would not have even known beyond my little chart. I end up needing lots of hand holding with science.
I'm sorry, its late, the laminator is fried (4 yo tried to help older son "laminate" and stuck something in the laminator - who knows what and then older son was trying to be helpful and clean out the laminator - he did successfully retrieve whatever object had jammed it only he put in a sheet to clean it and trying to conserve paper, he used used paper and unfortunately it had crayon on it. I'm hitting panic mode with no laminator, most of my science stuff still waiting for me to figure it out (I know there is a lot of good stuff I printed out - but I had visions of making a filing system of taxonomy like Lapazfarm - just don't have the experience to do it and her stuff is helping a lot but I'm still not ready to present anything and I'm obviously panicking and trying hard not to.
I think the most frustrating thing to me is the way I was taught science - as if all intelligent people blindly accept the pronouncement of scientists and these pronouncements are locked in concrete and only changed in the past because people were more ignorant then. Now I'm discovering how much of a lie all my science was - and obviously I didn't retain much of it anyways other than vague impressions. Still, I haven't a clue how to really do science - so here we are in panic after day 1. (Actually day 1 went rather well as we are starting with leaf collection and my insets and for now, we have the names of enough leaf types to get us going. I'm a bit clueless what some of them are as I couldn't find them pictured in Niehaus - but that is another wild goose chase I'm on. But the other part of the year is supposed to be us all learning taxonomy together.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marihalojen
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 12 2006
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1883
|
| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 7:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
For an awesome, historical, look at the Kingdoms of Life, check out Ernst Haeckel's presentation of the Three Kingdom System in his 1866 Generelle Morphologie der Organismen. It is the second image on the right. Well, here is a larger link, but it is in German, I guess. I love the presentation of this chart! The concept of the Tree of Life and the image of this knarly, organic tree clicked in my brain.
I'm sure you've seen this, Theresa, but I immediately thought of that blank bit of wall that Superboy has laid claim to for his Tree of Life mural.
__________________
~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 9:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, yea, that is a classic! I love that one!
I think Superboy is going to go with something between that and this:Tree of Life web navigation picture
Here is an interesting page that shows a number of different visualizations of the tree of life (or parts of it), and the problems with creating a good, teachable one :Visualizing the Tree of Life
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
earthmaven
Forum Pro
Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 5:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here's something I found at our library today that might be of help in addition to a standard textbook. It's specifically aimed at those for whom biology is either fairly new or forgotten since high school/university:
Biology Demystified: A Self-Teaching Guide
See what you think.
Tracy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 6:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you for the reference to Haeckel's link. I went and looked at that and that really helped me out. I also was so proud that my son was able to completely fix the laminator (taking it apart and cleaning it) so it helped to be able to move forward there. I have tons of stuff from Lapazfarm and I think if we start our classification work at the higher levels and work down - just touching on the more complicated and controversial for now, then I should be able to get quite a bit accomplished and we'll be building our chart and understanding as we go. I should be able to manage that way and hopefully by the time we are ready to do the more involved stuff, I'll understand better and have the time and money to tackle a few of the above recommended books. Thanks for helping me out here - and keeping panic at bay a little bit longer.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Kingdoms of Life...Five or Six?
