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LisaR
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The recent AP discussion brought up a somewhat related question I would love to hear input about: how can we be present to our teens/young adults while we are still having babies?
This is NOT where I need support or encouragement about what a blessing a baby is to an older sibling- I can see that in my own strapping 14 y/o boy who still loves to tote his "baby" around everywhere.
I know many large Catholic homeschool families who have struggled
greatly with teens who have had some very serious and real issues. Teen pregnancies, eating disorders, drug/alchohol abuse, leaving their Catholic faith, etc. I have heard moms say they were "so distracted with the baby/pregnancy/newborn/toddler" that they did not realize their teen was slipping away, right before their eyes.
Again, this is NOT a slam about family size, spacing, parenting, etc, but a REAL question I have with regards to AP-ing for the long haul.
How can we be "present" to our older kids once they outgrow the sling (just kidding on that!) ?
As moms, it is often easy to get caught up in the young kids needs or our own needs if we are pregnant, etc. Often I know I thought of my older kids as more self sufficient than they really were- meaning that they still have just as strong AP needs, just different. They might be great mom's helpers, and so self motivated, but
there are still very real needs to be met.
So, I'd love to hear from those who have gone before me a bit further- what worked, what did not? what do you wish you had done differently? I am very close to my teen, but thinking ahead to if there ever was another baby in store for us (which takes lots of medical intervention, before, during and after).
I think about how a pregnancy for me means over one year of very very high stress levels in the home, and where my focus is very self and baby centered. I am honestly not able to be very "present" to anyone....
How do you AP a teen through that?
I know what works for the littles- but what about the teens?
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Lisbet
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LisaR wrote:
I know many large Catholic homeschool families who have struggled
greatly with teens who have had some very serious and real issues. Teen pregnancies, eating disorders, drug/alchohol abuse, leaving their Catholic faith, etc. I have heard moms say they were "so distracted with the baby/pregnancy/newborn/toddler" that they did not realize their teen was slipping away, right before their eyes.
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Lisa, I'm gathering from your posts as of late that we run in very different circles!  I know of so very few teens from big families that have ran into the kinds of issues you mentioned! Actually, I look at the teens of many of my friends and feel so very hopeful and giddy about having teens in our family. They are truely treasures. It was being around a group of homeschooled teen boys, most from big families, that got my dh on the homeschooling wagon, so to speak.
I don't have a teen in the house just yet, (2 more months!) But I think the biggest difference I see when my kids begin to make that child/young adut shift is the role that Dad plays. I'm not saying Dad doesn't have a role before that, but it becomes ever so more important as they grow 'out of the sling' as you said! :) When I lay down with the littles, Dad stays up, oftentimes very late, with the bigger kids, reading to them, either good literature or from the newspaper etc...
I have found too, that working along side of my children, while nursing a baby, dressing a toddler, etc... keep good communication during the day.
My soon-to-be-teen also is blessed with a WONDERFUL spiritual director who he see's once a month.
Maybe it's because I'm not quite there yet, but I just don't see this being a problem.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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teachingmyown
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Lisa,
Great question! I don't know if have the answer. A dear friend and I were talking about this, in a way, the other day. She and I both have 8 children. Our oldest kids are both 16 and we both have newborn babies.
We were talking about how pregnancies, even relatively easy ones, take us away from being fully present to our other kids. From exhaustion and morning sickness to the discomfort of late pregnancy, we tend to be more focused on ourselves. We were pondering this especially in light of our oldest kids getting ready to leave the nest in the next two years and our responsibility to them.
So, what is the answer? I won't go on about the teen/baby connection since you aren't asking that. But, I will say that it is that connection that can really keep a teen from slipping away. My oldest doesn't really "practice" his faith at this point. He goes to Mass with us, but often stands in the back (our church is always packed) and doesn't go to Communion. But, he does help me with the little ones and that gives him a purpose. Now that the baby is here, my oldest will sit next to me in the cry room, help with the toddler and constantly gaze in amazement at his baby brother.
But, beyond that connection. I think we just need to make that much more of an effort to keep talking to our teens. Also, explain when we are struggling. Tell them that they mean so much to us, but that we need them to let us know when we are missing something because we are distracted just like we were all those years ago when we were carrying them.
My teen has been difficult, but he was born that way.  I think that the problems we have had would have been the same if I had stopped having kids four years ago. I think that maybe it isn't about them getting squeezed out by the babies and tots. It is about knowing our kids.
Maybe the families that have struggled and even lost their teens to the world are looking in the wrong place for reasons. Or maybe some families really do leave their teens to fend for themselves. I know my teen would tell you I am WAY too involved in his life!  But then, I am just a "crazy, Catholic, homeschooling mom" We are all nuts, you know!
I don't know if this helps at all, or even makes sense. I just think that like everything we do in our families, I take a conscious effort. That is true whether we have 2 kids or 10.
Bottom line is that our teens need to feel that we are paying attention even if we are nursing a baby and glued to the couch.
Just one more note (then I will shut up!)- I have no delusions that I have the answers. Honestly, with my oldest, we really don't know how he will turn out, at least in the short term. (I do have faith that he will grow up to be a strong Catholic.) So, I was not implying that families who lose their teens are doing anything wrong. I know how hard this is! My point was only that some may be looking in the wrong place for reasons.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 14 2008 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
[QUOTE=LisaR]
Lisa, I'm gathering from your posts as of late that we run in very different circles! I know of so very few teens from big families that have ran into the kinds of issues you mentioned! Actually, I look at the teens of many of my friends and feel so very hopeful and giddy about having teens in our family. They are truely treasures. It was being around a group of homeschooled teen boys, most from big families, that got my dh on the homeschooling wagon, so to speak.
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I am afraid to go into specifics because I do not want to point fingers, with more specific examples, and that was not the issue really of my post. But yes, there are moms on here, moms on other Catholic homeschooling e groups, certainly moms I know very recently IRL,close friends, and it does happen, and they are hurting terribly!
Maybe a better way to pharase the question would have been- "making time for your teen" ??
Again, we LOVE our teen, he is a weekly confession goer, SUPER helpful around the home, we chat (dh, Joe, myself) every day (around being gone at school and his other responsibilities ) about pretty deep stuff and he shares everything! We pray together, DH just returned from a campout that he led with a group of boys, so no worries there. They play sports together and go to daily mass together and Boy Scouts, serve Mass together. and he (Joe) would so like us to have another baby.
I guess I was looking for practical suggestions from moms who have kids even older than me. Or posts from moms (if they felt comfortable) saying "we kind of "lost" a teen for awhile, most likely because in hindsight, we realized we had neglected x,y,z, and this is what we are doing differently now."
I have read about AP'ing a teen is a bit different than a non AP approach. but at the time I did not have a teen and don't remember the content/context! so, just looking for anything anyone wanted to throw out there.
sorry, I obviously do not express myself well!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Lisbet
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One woman that I know very well that 'lost' a teen will not hesitate to say that it all went downhill went they allowed him to go to public school. (He the 2nd of 7, the oldests being a consecrated woman.)
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Pamin OZ
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I was going to post that very question! Being present mentally and emotionally would have to be foundational, wouldn't it? Whatever else we do.
Last Sunday at church my husband, older son and I were sitting listening to the Kids' talk which was about God's great gift to us. The question was asked of the children "What is the best present you've ever got?" and my son leaned over to me and said emphatically, "Elisabeth and Rachel". They are two and four months, respectively.
That made my day and my week and possibly my month and year. I do worry about my older two missing out but at least there are real, real positives!
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Pam in Sydney
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/paminoz/
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LisaR
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Pam, in what ways do you worry about your older two "missing out" ?
Molly, thank you so much for your very thoughtful post. I was also glad to hear that you and your similar situation friend were just speaking about this! I was starting to think there was more wrong with me than I thought! (or that I think too much???)
I was also pondering about the moms with younger kids yearning for more sleep. for me to be really present to my teen means some late nights either driving to and from "good" activites/events, or listening as he tends to open up, oh, around 10:30 pm or so every night!!
So, the sleep "issue" isn't going away even though I do not have a newborn atm. I might be up past midnight with one, and up before 6 am for another driving to a wrestling match!
(and the alone time with dh gets harder as kids get older too, in a way)
A mom today told me that for her, "losing" her daughter for a time they think was due to her having an outside job at a fast food restaurant. That became her friendship circle, as they live in a remotish area with other homeschool girls a good 25 mi away or so. So she ended up spending more and more time with the new set of friends.
We have thought about the work issue often over the past 2 years.
WHat is something home-based or more solitary that ds could do? So far he's done landscaping, and that is about it.
We have friends who own restaurants, and we trust the family, but putting ds in as a dishwasher with the "crowd in the back" might be a bit much.
thanks for letting me muse and mull over things here!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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happymama
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Wow, Lisa, you know I have absolutely no experience parenting older children! But I do have vivid memories of my own high school years, which certainly (for dh also) included many mistakes and swings away from my relationship with God.
I have no advice or anecdotes. I just know that teens make mistakes, and the goal I have for my children is twofold: to do all in my power to prevent the BIG mistakes from happening, and to make sure their consciences are clearly and adequately formed. After all, it isn't being perfect that God really expects from us, but being perfectly contrite after we have messed up.
You've done a great job with Joe, and I'm sure his conscience is clear. Whether you have a lot or a little time with a teen, I'd use that time for "quizzing" them on the faith... in every discreet way possible!
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LisaR
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yeah, just tonight we had a great chat about Canon Law. He wanted to know more about the "law" that stated that Parents are to Catholic educate their kids, or get permission from the local Bishop...
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Nina Murphy
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LisaR wrote:
I think about how a pregnancy for me means over one year of very very high stress levels in the home, and where my focus is very self and baby centered. I am honestly not able to be very "present" to anyone....
How do you AP a teen through that?
I know what works for the littles- but what about the teens? |
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This describes me, Lisa, and reading it is making me sad. Not because you brought it up, but because it is true and needs to be addressed honestly and I am in the middle of it! I don't have an answer other than what I TRY to do daily. I just check in with them, ask them how they are, if they need anything, smile at them, hug them if they want that, try to provide what they like (my one teen likes playing UNO with me, another likes watching movies, etc).
But really, I can't spend "enough" time on the older ones. I am just too limited. I tell them that...we talk about that....about my weaknesses and struggles. They seem glad to talk about it and see me looking them in the eyes and making the effort to reach out to them. We pray together every day no matter what, and we eat together. I think they know how very much I love them, and wish I could be stronger. They see how much the littles and the CFers divert me. They see how my pregnancies compromise me. I hope God is forming them and moulding them for a particular maturity and sensitivity.
I really fretted over my oldest daughter and how for the past 7 years she has been on her own in many ways. But now she is doing beautifully, better than ever, a late bloomer. She is in college, a classical voice major---will be 20 in the Spring, and happier than ever being busy and active and having her schedule full with what she loves. Being at home, yes, for a few years there: she kind of fell into a slump and picked up on the general inertia. But she got through! And I attribute it solely to prayer, and abandoning her to Our Lady (and hopefully a good foundation being my oldest and all!! I mean, she did get some of my good years. )
So: I don't know if we have that much control over it. I had to let go of a LOT of fear. It is still not easy because I get overwhelmed by having so many and having so little energy. I always wish I could give them more. But I am doing what as THEIR mother I can (and they are SO excited to have another baby...they adore babies, even with all of the sacrifice involved) and trying to keep everything peaceful in the home as it is within my power.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Pamin OZ
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Lisa,
your first two boys are the same age as mine, which I find strangely comforting! It's nice to know someone else has the same worries sometimes.
What do I worry about them missing? Some of its just vague parental guilt I think exacerbated my feeling so limited in motion with two littlies. We had a lot of freedom and did a lot of fun things together and now big days out are really impossible.
I don't drive which adds to it although at this stage it would be pretty much the same and may even be a blessing as it means I have to stay put a lot more which I am convinced is good for the littlies. ( I know others have to be out and about and I'm not judging them, truly.)
I'm going to have to think and see what is that vague guilt and what is specific and get back to you.
what do you worry about them missing?
I really don't want my oldest to work elsewhere yet as I don't think he has the maturity yet to withstand the "glamour" of the different.
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Pam in Sydney
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/paminoz/
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LisaR
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Pamin OZ wrote:
Lisa,
what do you worry about them missing?
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ok folks, I spent waayyy too much time on the computer yesterday- but it was so much fun!!
so, the short answer is that I worry about my olders missing ME - while I am hospitalized, on bedrest, in my room for weeks and months hooked up to the hospital grade double pump and pumping every 2 hours, etc.
not to get all sociological and anthropological here, but even a century and a half ago, almost always the extended family lived together, or at least almost-next-door, and the dad usually had a more family based job.
So, mom is out of the picture, well, the older kids all worked with dad anyway. or, mom out of the picture? well, the grandmas, and aunts, etc, picked up the slack (even nursing a neice or nephew if need be, from what I have read repeatedly!!)
so, in this day and age, when mom is "missing", something is really at a breaking point fast, and it is understandably so.
I don't have the answers, just lots of questions!!
As far as AP principles go (and not to keep dredging this up), I just keep wondering how do we keep connectedness up after our kids don;t "need" us physically so much anymore??
It used to just be built into daily life. now, not so much.
ok, yell at me if you see me on here again before afternoon!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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please pray  a mom I know JUST called and her teen is in one of the "categories" I listed in my first post. please please pray for all Catholic homeschool families who are trying to "keep it all together".
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Elizabeth
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Lisa,
I've been thinking about this question since you first posted and I've been posing it up against the daily round in my house so that I can answer the question. This week, I have the benefit of having all my children under one roof before Michael goes back to college. I also have the benefit of hearing the stories of how his friends have fared "out in the world" as they all come back for Christmas break.
In my own situation, which is the only one I can speak to with a high degree of certainty, I know that homeschooling through high school definitely made staying attached a much simpler proposition despite pregnancies and babies and toddlers and some special needs siblings. There is a huge chunk of time and shared experience that makes it simpler to be there to talk or--perhaps more importantly--to observe the subtle behaviors that indicate that something's on his mind. I talked about this a good deal during my last talk at the conference. That talk was entitled "Attachment Parenting Grows Up" originally. It has "evolved" over the years though and now it includes another component and I renamed it "A Loving Lifestyle: It's All About Relationships." And the component I think is a huge key is the marriage relationship.
I think that kids from homes where marriages are strong and fathers are firm and involved and leaders fare the best. I think it really helps teenagers to observe a relationship of respect between parents. I think they benefit enormously from peaceful marriages where mom truly puts dad first while still caring well for children. So, when I re-wrote the talk, I renamed it and included a big chunk on marriage. I don't think for a minute that a troubled marriage necessarily means a troubled kid but I do think that a troubled marriage makes it much harder for the mom to ensure that her kids remain healthily attached as they get older and that they have a good sense of how to navigate the world. Mothers who are in challenging marriage situations will benefit from recognizing this and directly working to minimize the effects on children.
I think that the situations you speak to above are not limited to families who are proponents of attachment parenting. And since I don't know the families and I'm not really comfortable having a detailed discussion of marriage dynamics online, I don't know if my theory holds true in most of the cases above. I just know it seems to be bearing itself out in my small circle. Even kids who were a handful when they were 4, and 10 and 14 (all the same kid;-), are doing really well now, in college, due, I think, in large part, to the strength of marriage and the influence of fathers. And it doesn't seem to matter if dad traveled (I can think of 3 of Michael's close friends real quickly whose fathers' work takes them away a lot) -- it seems to matter more how committed the couple is to each other and how respected the father is in the home. A woman who doesn't respect her husband and lets her kids see it (even in little ways) does a huge disservice to her children.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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LisaR
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Elizabeth wrote:
Lisa,
-- it seems to matter more how committed the couple is to each other and how respected the father is in the home. A woman who doesn't respect her husband and lets her kids see it (even in little ways) does a huge disservice to her children. |
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I think you are "right on" that the state of the marriage is a huge factor in raising our children. Ususally when one hears of a "major trauma" involving a teen, homeschooled or not, from a "good family", there almost always is more to the story that is not on the surface.
I have a HUGE pet peeve, I can't stand it when wives make comments like "I had to make dh do such and such" or conversely "How did you "get" your dh to do such and such?" like we need to manipulate or trick our dh's.
Kind of the Berenstein Bear thing- I really hate it when men/dads are treated as kind of warm fuzzy benevolent bumbles....but that WE ALL are supposed to know who really runs the show.... 
Upon further reflection, I also think that the involvement/relationship dad has in the family is of increasing importance as a child grows into the teen years.
We are having a blast with our teen. I am so glad we did not label him "ADHD", "Sensory Disordered," etc. Even though when he was younger I was silently pulling my hair out! I tried hard not to let him know. Many of these behaviors he seems to have outgrown or developed really good coping skills. We could see how he gravitated more toward dh as he matured (which was fine with us!) and while we are very close, I am glad that he shares so much (activities/time and conversations) with his dad.
It is just sad and puzzling to learn of families who are seemingly "doing everything right" and their world drastically changes with a teen crisis.
The simple formula of "keep your kids out of school" does not seem to be the answer.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Elizabeth
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Lisa,
There is no simple formula. Relationships are too complex and people within the relationships are all unique. I'm glad to hear things are going so well in your household--you must know what works best for your family  .
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Erin
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Lisa
You pose a very good question and one I often ponder over myself. I recall being the oldest in a large family (8) myself and I know what the most important thing my mother did for me was to be present for conversation, she showed that she was interested in what I had to say even if, poor woman she was having to prop her eyes open with toothpicks late into the night.
A little while ago on the board here I posed a question about fostering a relationship with my own teenager and the wise ladies here reminded me of that approach. To spend time with your teen at night, invite her/him out to the loungeroom for a hot cup of chocolate, to make sure you say good night, often the time for confidences, to invite them on walks, to try and find moments from time to time of one on one. Very hard I know in a large family.
Just yesterday I had a conversation with a devout hsing mum whose children had left the faith for a time but had returned and were very strong. I asked her for words of wisdom, her answer was prayer.
There are no guarantees, much as we would like it and our time is yet to come, yours and mine as our oldest children are the same age, but I do believe that faithful example, prayer and to love unconditionally as Christ does is what God wants of me. (I don't always succeed at this  )
Many hugs  the path ahead is exciting and a little scary but God walks with us.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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LisaR
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Erin wrote:
Lisa
Just yesterday I had a conversation with a devout hsing mum whose children had left the faith for a time but had returned and were very strong. I asked her for words of wisdom, her answer was prayer.
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Thank you for this Erin, I was thinking that I would like my kids to know/see me praying more often, and that I could probably do a better job of letting the kids (and dh, too!) know specifically that I am praying for them. our marriage, and our family.
While I know of many many "success stories" for some reason the hardships seem to be on my mind recently, close friends just a step ahead on the path whom we emulated losing kids to drugs, alchohol, moving in with boyfriends/girlfriends/ eating disorders, etc.
I'm the oldest, too, but only of 4 kids. Maybe this is dear to my heart as well because of my own experiences.
I also have a new mission- for years I have been approaching moms, even strangers, with an encouraging word when I see they are nursing in public/have lots of littles, etc. I'd like to start something where I am more vocal about telling moms of teens I know- "good job", "Let's pray for eachother as moms of teens", etc.
Peace of Christ,
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Lisbet
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LisaR wrote:
I am more vocal about telling moms of teens I know- "good job", "Let's pray for eachother as moms of teens", etc.
Peace of Christ, |
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Lisa, this really does wonders for a mothers 'morale' sometimes. Dh and I were at a fundraiser Saturday, and my sons ECYD mentor went out of his way to come and tell me what a great kid Nick is, respectful, dependable, etc... I really needed to hear this from an outside source. Nick has been in a bit of a 'funk' lately and dh and I are working really hard at keeping the lines of communication and prayer open. I needed to hear the positive. You are very right and I will start doing this more often myself!
Also, about the prayer part... I think it was Bridget that said each morning before her husband leaves for work she asks him if there is anything she can do for him that day or any specific things she can pray for him about. I took that to heart and have been doing it myself for the past year now. Sometimes my husband gives very specific requests, like he has a meeting at such and such time, please pray, and then the children and I will stop what we are doing and offer a quick prayer for him, and sometimes he's very vague. I wonder how I could start doing this for my children?
Great points Lisa and Erin!
I wanted also to elaborate on my earlier post about the mom who said it all went downhill when they sent him to PS. I think it was this particular child's temperment that played into it. He was was very easily influenced by his peers. I don't think sending kids to school is detremental across the board, but for specific children it can be. KWIM?
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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LisaR
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[QUOTE=Lisbet] , I wonder how I could start doing this for my children?
QUOTE]
My oldest ds is not a writer, but for a few years when he was 11,12 y/o or so, we kept a "journal" where I would occasionally write to him in a compostition book, and leave it under his pillow. then, he would write me back, and could share some of his frustrations/thoughts/etc there without feeling uncomfortable about talking about it. Now he is WAY more chatty and I see ds Paul, almost 12, who could appreciate a little extra attention in this way.
Tim is very good about asking for prayer for specifics (meeting, etc) but I'd like to work on letting him know I am praying for him often. (Maybe an e mail could help this too)
I remember about a year ago, I was holding a wiggly Maria in the back of Church (we have a cry room, but I don;t like to use it).
At the end of Mass, but before most of the Masses had descended, a dad we know from Boy Scouts approached me and told me how much he respects our family, and that Tim and I are doing such a great job with our kids. He specifically mentioned homeschooling, and how he could see "greatness" in our teen son compared to most of the boys he knew. His kind words (this is a tough guy kind of dad, he is dean of students at a HUGE Public High School here) meant so much to me, as right at that moment I had thought "when am I EVER going to make it through Mass uninterrupted, etc"
So ,yes, we all need those words of encouragement!!!! and we never know when our words can be just what someone else needs.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: being present for our teens/babies
