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Jordan
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| Posted: April 25 2007 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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I know Sonlight has been discussed here a lot before but I'm wondering if
anyone has had success with it by cutting back on the history and adding other literature in its place? How do you decide what to cut and what to keep?
I know that I tend to try to do too much and this includes the effort I put into planning and trying to make things perfect for my kids. I put so much into whatever currently seems to be the most important that I often lose balance with everything else. This is something I really need to overcome but I fear that if I try to put our homeschool studies together from scratch and spend hours on the computer planning it all out, then I won't make enough time to pursue other interests. My husband has been telling me I need more balance, meaning interests besides motherhood, so I'm becoming more conscious of this.
I LOVE the Real Learning booklist but I worry that I would get carried away with the time I put into making it a full curriculum. I'm not even sure what I'd have to do to turn that list into a full curriculum so maybe I'm wrong about that. Would this basically be the same as planning units?
Would it work to use SL as a spine but replace some of it with books from the Real Learning list? We haven't even begun our kindergarten year yet so this is just me thinking ahead. I know SL isn't Catholic but I don't think I'd have trouble taking out what I'd need to (assuming I would be able to know in advance what to take out) and adding Catholic things in there. This already sounds like a lot of tweaking but my knowledge base on literature and social studies is woefully lacking and I feel like I need the help in choosing and discussing the books and ideas, even if I don't use all the books SL recommends. I think what I'm most interested in from SL is the book recommendations, and that they're already listed by appropriate age and grouped by subject. Not knowing much about history and such, I feel like the backgrounds and activities would be a huge help for me.
Hmmm...this is becomming jumbled. I guess my question is, could SL be used in a Real Learning way that would be effective?
Thank you so much for any help. 
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: April 25 2007 at 10:54am | IP Logged
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Hey Jordon!
I've got two seconds right now, but I wanted you to know that I'm passing this post along to Bookswithtea who is our resident Sonlight expert. I'm sure she, long with others (like Lissa), will have lots to offer!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: April 25 2007 at 6:38pm | IP Logged
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Hi there (gotch your pm, Elizabeth!  ).
You didn't mention how old your children are, which is a very important consideration.
Just for some background, I've used SL levels pk-7, albeit quite altered. History is my passion and I'm consistently drawn to their attempts to present more than one side of the stories (plus, I love historical fiction). I was protestant when I used the first several levels so there was also a part of me that just wanted to continue what I had been doing all along.
That said, I almost never recommend Sonlight outright anymore. It is an overwhelming program, no matter how well laid out the IG's are according to the catalogue. I don't use it anywhere near as its designed. I cut out all the protestant hero stories, and tailor it to the child I'm using it with. Sonlight is the kind of program where you don't want to cut and replace. You need to cut 1/4 of it outright, and then replace with only 2 or 3 books if you hope to finish within a year (this presumes you have toddlers, babies etc in the home. Families with one child often do well with SL as scheduled).
Since you mentioned planning for K, I'm guessing your children are young.
SL PK and K are both interesting programs. The biggest thing they both lack is an abundance of picture books. They use anthologies instead, which I personally don't care for as you lose the wonder of the illustrations with them.
If you want to try SL, I'd start with the PK level for Kindergarten (its more than enough along with phonics and math) and I'd replace the anthologies with either picture books from Elizabeth's booklist or from Catholic Mosaic.
What I really like for pk-2nd though (and use myself), is Five in A Row with Catholic Mosaic as my spine, and then I add in some of my favorite read alouds from the PK and K levels.
The Sonlight catalogue is a wonderful booklist and its easy to add the books that sound good to you without chaining yourself to their manuals (I should say that the PK manual is light, the rest quickly become burdensome).
I hope this helps? I'm more than happy to answer more specific questions if you are still wondering.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Jordan
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 6:52am | IP Logged
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Thank you so much, Books, for your guidance, and thank you, Elizabeth, for passing this post along to such a helpful source.
Sorry I wasn't clear about my kids' ages. I have a preschooler (dd 4) and a toddler (ds 2). My four year-old will be kindergarten age, not this coming school year, but the next. I'm just trying to be prepared for when the time comes by exploring my options now while there's no hurry.
I really appreciate your input. From what you've said I'm gathering that Sonlight loses a lot when its taken apart, and that's really helpful to know. When you go about selecting which of SL's books to use, do you have any special way of choosing? Do you just select what looks interesting? Do you find one type of their books to be most valuable, such as readers, history books, or read-alouds? Then, if I were to choose only a few books each year, would the Instructor's Guides still be useful for the Teaching Helps?
I think I am most attracted to SL because of my weakness in social studies and I'm looking to compensate for that. My husband should be good for conversations with the kids as his educational background is history and international relations, but he's not the one making the plans and choosing the materials.
Thank you for your recommendations for using FIAR and Catholic Mosaic for the first few years. I already have the manuals for those but I am still collecting the books.
I am very grateful for your help.
Jordan
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mary
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 7:23am | IP Logged
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books certainly has way more sonlight experience than i do - we have only done prek - core 2. we have made a lot of changes but i do still think sonlight is a great program. every year i think i'm going to find something that works better but every year i end up choosing sonlight again, even if i do have to make changes. i really like sonlight's history. the science is eh to me and so i have added in lots of nature study and weekly trips to the nature center. we are doing core 3 science next year and i'm switching out one of the books. i don't find it that big of a deal to make these changes, but i can see how that might be bothersome/annoying for pple who expect the program to be perfect as is.
my almost 4 yr old will be doing prek next year. my boys did prek when they were 5 and 3 respectively. the anthologies were boring to my boys and we did replace them with lots of picture books. i have always removed all of the missionary stories and replaced them with saint stories. you can join the yahoo sonlight catholic group to look at their files and see which books you might want to avoid. you can also join the sonlight prek group and see a pretty terrific prek ig put together by the group moderator, janet. that's what i'm using next fall.
my kids are all doing catholic mosaic this year and we love it. we are also working on the figures for catechesis of the good shepherd and building our atrium. we do not use the sonlight bible and we do add in catholic books from mater amabilis, which is also a neat program that you might want to look at.
that said, i still think sonlight is worth doing even when you have to make changes.
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Lorri
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 8:32am | IP Logged
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We've been using Sonlight for a couple of years now, almost exactly as is. There is a lot included in the IG, but they totally don't expect you to do it all! You pick and choose what works best for you. For example, we don't do the discussion questions for the read alouds or the science worksheets. Instead, during dinner with dad we talk about what we've been reading. Then I can hear that they are understanding. We are notebooking science in place of the worksheets.
I love all the SL books! I don't take out any Protestant books just because they are Protestant, I take out anybook we aren't enjoying or is too much for my dc. For example, in Core K, we didn't read Hero Talesbecause I thought it was dry and boring. We took out their version of Mother Goose for the same reason. However, we read all the missionary stories and enjoy them very much. They are great testimonies to how Christ can work in people's lives in the most extraordinary circumstances. We like to continue to pray for the countries we read about, that they will come to know Jesus. I add in lives of the saints to round it all out.
I have added my own picture/artist study and nature study ala CM, but that's it.
Oh! About halfway through this school year we dropped the LA program almost completely. But SL got Ruth Beecheck to help them rewrite their LA, so I am looking forward to the changes!
One of the biggest advantages for me using SL is the ability to combine children into one Core. I'm using Core 1, easily spreading it out over 2 years for my 2nd grader and K'gartner.
There was a very recent discussion on the SL forums about incorporating CM into SL. I think you can access their forums free for 30 days.
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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we use Sonlight too. Actually, last year, I tried a switch to WinterPromise, and it didn't go well at all. So we area back to Sonlight.
I am using Level C (Kinder.) for my almost 5 year old, but in a very relaxed fashion. Core 3 for my ds 8 (will be turning 9). and dd17 asked to do Core 300, but she is doing that mostly on her own.
We tweak a little, use it in a relaxed way, and the Sonlight-Catholic Yahoo Group files helps a lot too!
In the past we have used the PreK, Core 1+2, Alt 6, 100, 200 levels.
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hopalenik
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 12:08pm | IP Logged
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Hi,
I use the sonlight books but without the manuals. I have not tied myself to their schedule. I do not use anything marked with an X (as the catalog says these are religious and therefore Protestant). I got the guides the first year and was soooo overwhelmed. So the reading list are my read alouds plus saints stories and the readers are what Tara reads to herself plus I buy the Seton, CHC readers for her to read to me. I use alot of their science books but I am kinda doing the WTMind idea for science in that we only approach one kind of science a year. Last year was biology and this year was astronomy and earth science. I picked my science spine (ie. Usbourne encyclopedia) from among the K-3 levels. Otherwise for language arts and math I pick and choose from Seton, MODG, CHC and Christian Liberty Press. I have 5 second grade and under. I don't write out any lesson plans yet. Tara just knows to pick up the phonics or math books and do a page a day. I read the books to them from Sonlight in chronological order and occasionally give a Story of the World activity picture for the topic. I suppose that I will have to start planning things at some point soon, but it seems that every time we plan things out disaster strikes and then I have to redo the plans. So I document their work as they go. I have also learned from my wiser and more experienced homeschoolers that they may or may not remember everything that one does history or science in the first few years...so my philosophy is that we will read it and talk about it but I am not going to spend much more time than that on it. I will wait two more years till 5th grade before I go for hefty projects or extras....when they can appreciate it a little bit more.
Holly
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
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Forgot to mention:
I asked dd17 which curriculum she had liked best over the years. Being the first we homeschooled, she was often our "test subject" and we tried all kinds of stuff with her - almost all the Catholic curriculums were tried at one time or another. I really am trying to pick a curriculum and stick to it for the younger ones...
Without hesitation, she answered, "Sonlight".
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 3:28pm | IP Logged
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Jordan wrote:
I really appreciate your input. From what you've said I'm gathering that Sonlight loses a lot when its taken apart, and that's really helpful to know. When you go about selecting which of SL's books to use, do you have any special way of choosing? Do you just select what looks interesting? Do you find one type of their books to be most valuable, such as readers, history books, or read-alouds? Then, if I were to choose only a few books each year, would the Instructor's Guides still be useful for the Teaching Helps? |
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At the young ages of your children, the manual is not going to offer you anything beyond the schedule itself and some notes written as a "review" of the books themselves. The manuals become much more necessary as a resource after around core 3. Most Sonlight books are scheduled in about the amount of time any mother would sit down and read...20 minutes or so per novel, and 2 pages a day for Usborne type books.
I don't think SL loses so much when its taken apart. Actually, by taking it apart I think the family gains as long as cutting is the direction, rather than adding. Its not that I have something against Sonlight. I have just seen so so many families burn out and become overwhelmed by the manuals (pk manual is not hard to follow...its the exception to this warning).
Jordan wrote:
I think I am most attracted to SL because of my weakness in social studies and I'm looking to compensate for that.
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I like Sonlight's international focus. These types of books are the ones I have kept, along with most of the wonderful read alouds and their sets of readers. I have even been known to tolerate some of their "praying for the world" type books that are at times negative toward Catholicism. I skip the icky passages or edit on the fly because there aren't a lot of other resources out there for exposing your children to the idea of praying for the world.
In the preschool program, you'll likely want to avoid New Toes for Tia and The God's Must Be Angry, and possibly Stories from Africa (this one has a very evangelical "salvation moment" focus). In K, Hero Tales is ATROCIOUS, and boring to boot. The SL Catholic loop has been bugging SL for years to drop that book from the program because it is historically inaccurate. In K, the Egermeier's Bible Story book does not have an accurate rendering of Matthew 16 or John 6...its an evangelical paraphrase of these crucial passages. Its easy enough to replace it with a Catholic story bible.
Because I have the books on my shelf, I just pick what I think that child would enjoy. I've used the K read alouds three times now, and Lord willing, will use them 3 more times before my children are all done with Kindergarten/First Grade.
Hope this helps...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Jordan
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| Posted: April 27 2007 at 4:22pm | IP Logged
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I really appreciate all of your responses and help. You have given me a lot to consider. Thank you so much.
Jordan
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Making Sonlight Work Real Learning-Style
