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JennGM
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Here's a burning question that I hope I can find answers!
I have my husband on the same page for homeschooling our sons. He's supportive, and knows it's the best. But without reading or delving into philosophies, he wants to understand how and why we are doing things. He thinks brick and mortar school ways. He sees the progress, but still asks questions or muses about "not knowing what's going on".
I find I can't find the words to express it succinctly so he understands. Anyone create a pocket guide or Cliff's notes version of approaching homeschooling, especially a Real Learning approach? And philosophies like Charlotte Mason, Classical, Montessori...how do you explain?
How do you give a succinct answer to a man who thinks in accounting, spreadsheets, and numbers?
I really don't want the home learning to be all about me and my ideas and not really have my husband's handprint on it. And I don't mean just little things here and there "to get Dad involved". I want him involved in our planning and philosophies. Last year I presented a plan, and he "balanced" it with his ideas and perspective. That was good, but it's still ME and not US kind of way.
So after all this rambling, how do you get your husband to see your vision if he's not reading all the information you are?
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Martha
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depends..
does he want to know why or how or where it will lead?
for example I'm doing Kolbe greek history next yera for 2 reasons: ds wants to do it and greek/roman history is so much a part of western thought/history/literature that I think he needs to know it. I'm using Kolbe because it's Catholic, the plans are affordable and helpful and they use source materials whenever possible.
if your dh wants to know why your house doesn't look like the local classrooms, it's because you are at home. 
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Natalia
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I am looking forward to replies. My dh doesnt' have the time to read about philosophy of education. I have found it frustrating at times that I have a complete plan that makes sense to me and when I present it to him, he just doesn't get it because brick and mortar schools are his frame of reference. I would love to see how others handle this issue.
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JennGM
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Martha wrote:
| if your dh wants to know why your house doesn't look like the local classrooms, it's because you are at home. |
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No, nothing like that. He sees the different time frames, surroundings, understands the Catholic perspective.
Perhaps it's not using workbooks, not being super structured, not understanding the philosophy behind why I do something (like Charlotte Mason approach). Since I've done so much researching (and still need to do more) on what and why I want to do things, I want him to understand more than "It's Catholic, I think it's necessary, go along with me." I can hand a book, but he's too busy to do all the research and reading. He agrees with me.
It's more of a question how to make this a parental decision and not just the wife deciding what's best and the man going along with it.
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Willa
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JennGM wrote:
Last year I presented a plan, and he "balanced" it with his ideas and perspective. That was good, but it's still ME and not US kind of way.
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This is how it works in my house and I like it just because he's seeing it from the outside -- he can make sure I'm not going off the deep end. He lets me have a pretty free hand but I value his occasional "reality checks".
It makes sense to me that I'm the one who delves more deeply into the philosophy and practical details because I'm General Manager or Chief Executive Officer. I don't think he'd want to totally run the show because he has a lot of other things to do. But when he shows concern in a particular area I try to show how this method would work for area of concern.
Love the idea of a Pocket Guide or Cliff Notes or FAQ, however, and am wondering if we could try to put something together that could be adaptable to particular situations.
What do you think are the top questions a DH would ask? "What are you doing all day? What makes you think this will work? How is this better than the Catholic school I grew up in?" That kind of thing?
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Martha
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ah I see.
well I think that for most couples this is the wife's "job" and dh supports, encourages, and is glad that SHE does it. 
All I can do is tell you what I do.
I yap and yap and yap about what we are doing.
I yap and yap and yap aobut the needs of each child and what I'm looking at that might meet that need.
And dh to varying degrees at various times, nods politely, asks questions, notes a concern, or just cuts to the chase and reminds me I'm not married to a Rockefeller or Trump.
Now I'm sure YOU do not yap and your dh might be more endearing about his responses.
But this is what works for us.
These conversations have led dh to help me by:
asking what all is already on our shelves and why can't it be used? this actually made me clear my shelves and evaluate and afterward I used lots off them and he agreed that some weren't meeting a specific need for that child.
dh has noted at times a concern with penmanship for one, lack of logic skills with another, and a desire for us to do some american history this year, reminded me that I am one person with the same number of hours in the day as everyone else, reminded me that I do not have to do it all or even the same as I've done in the past.
Now 90% of the time dh just nods and says "Uh-huh".
but he does speak up when he wants to and I do listen to him when he does.
And that's what we do.
I have no idea if that helps you at all. 
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CrunchyMom
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Willa wrote:
| It makes sense to me that I'm the one who delves more deeply into the philosophy and practical details because I'm General Manager or Chief Executive Officer. I don't think he'd want to totally run the show because he has a lot of other things to do. But when he shows concern in a particular area I try to show how this method would work for area of concern. |
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This is along the lines of what I was thinking of how things work for us.
Sort of like I know about my husband's job, and he comes to me with frustrations about work, and I offer suggestions and encouragement as it seems appropriate, but I am not part of the actual planning, day to day decision making of my husband's job.
I think my husband sees the planning part of homeschooling like my job. Same thing with meal planning. He tells me what he likes, doesn't like, etc..., but if I just summarize my reasons for my choices to give him a vague understanding, it is usually enough to let him see that I have studied it and made the decision purposefully. I think he just lets go and trusts my decisions.
Now, if something were obviously not working, he would help me problem solve, but he leaves most of the research and such to me.
I can see how a pocket guide could be useful, though, in helping one communicate their reasons behind certain choices that their husband may not understand.
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Servant2theKing
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One thing that has been really helpful in our household is to print articles or bookmark pages in particular resources and leave them on the nightstand for my husband's regular perusal. As I run across something significant, that I know would help him better understand our homeschooling efforts, I make a concerted effort to leave it on the nightstand. This has been especially helpful in gently bringing my husband more on board through the years.
Many husbands do not have the time to devote to researching homeschooling topics, and they often don't have access to sources, like these boards, to reassure them of the value of various aspects of the homeschooling way of life. We can help them "catch the vision" that homeschooling in indeed a viable and desirable alternative by providing them with homemade "Cliff notes"...next time you read a concise description of some aspect of homescholing that you think would benefit your husband, print, copy or bookmark the information, then leave it where he is most likely to be able to take time to read it...on his nightstand, in his lunchbox, in an email, or even on the back of the toilet! ;)
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Lauri B
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My hubby recommends John Taylor Gatto articles to other dads, and also articles by Raymond Moore. Neither discuss all the various philosophies you mentioned, but both are respected, experienced men who encapsulate the whole "life of learning" philosophy which can get dads out of that box of school-thinking. Many dads, although they agree that school doesn't work very well, can't think outside that box. They were school educated and can't fathom any other way. Gatto & Moore explain the folly of school-thinking and suggest understandable alternative thinking. (I don't have direct links, but googling John Taylor Gatto articles usually brings up all the best sites.)
Also, Life Learning Mag has full back issues available online (free)
You can find age and situation appropriate articles for your family and your hubby's specific concerns.http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/read.html
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JuliaT
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Jenn, I don't have any solutions to your dilemma. But I just had a light-bulb moment when you were all talking about dh's perception of school as the brick and mortar type.
Last year, my dh told me that he thought we should put the kids in school so they could get a 'real education.' I was very hurt by his choice of words. As I look back at it now, though, I can see that when he saw the kids and I cuddled up on the couch reading or sitting on the floor playing games, this didn't mesh with his perception of what school is.
Last spring, my dd spent the day with her dad and a teenager, who is working for my dh. My dh came home quite impressed with Hannah. She talked all day to the teenage boy about Shakespeare (Hannah knew more plays--children versions-- than the boy did,) Greek Myths and palindromes (the boy didn't know what that was.) My dh told me that he could see that the kids were getting a real education after all and that, in the future, he would support me.
I thought that his wanting to send the kids to school was because he didn't trust me but I see now that it was because the way I was teaching the kids wasn't meshing with his perceptions of how school should be.
Blessings,
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JennGM
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Willa wrote:
JennGM wrote:
Last year I presented a plan, and he "balanced" it with his ideas and perspective. That was good, but it's still ME and not US kind of way.
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This is how it works in my house and I like it just because he's seeing it from the outside -- he can make sure I'm not going off the deep end. He lets me have a pretty free hand but I value his occasional "reality checks".
It makes sense to me that I'm the one who delves more deeply into the philosophy and practical details because I'm General Manager or Chief Executive Officer. I don't think he'd want to totally run the show because he has a lot of other things to do. But when he shows concern in a particular area I try to show how this method would work for area of concern.
Love the idea of a Pocket Guide or Cliff Notes or FAQ, however, and am wondering if we could try to put something together that could be adaptable to particular situations.
What do you think are the top questions a DH would ask? "What are you doing all day? What makes you think this will work? How is this better than the Catholic school I grew up in?" That kind of thing? |
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The husbands usually are so good for a balanced perspective and "reality checks". I do appreciate it. But it does help for dh to give productive advice/criticism if he knows where I'm coming from. His main questions are accountability -- how can he measure up that he's on the same level as other kids his age. I know that's a typical question. I have provided a Scope and Sequence and what VA requires.
There are little concerns like wanting to see him color more, coloring inside the lines. Ds doesn't like to color pages or coloring books as much, but doing more drawing.
But I think he does want to see a brief summary of the process and the purpose and goals we hope to attain. After all, if I'm trying to incorporate some methods that aren't found in a classroom or oppositie his own experience, like CM which has narration, Classical with memorization, Montessori which has little written curriculum, I need to relate how it won't make our sons weird and 3 headed.
Shorter articles would be good. We "communicate" a lot by way of articles we read in the paper or online. It fosters discussion and helps us understand each other. I understand more about his work his concerns, and we talk about the Faith and current events and how they affect our spiritual life. Or just talk about interesting stories.
So while I can talk about the liturgical year ad nauseum because I've given it deep thought, I can't always be precise on educational philosophy because I'm still sorting it out for myself. There are so many different way to look at an approach, also.
Ideas for short articles? I was thinking for classical, Dorothy Sayers Lost Tools of Learning and something short by Laura Berquist (for my perspective).
CM?
Montessori?
Putting it all together, not necessarily using boxed curriculum, having a fruitful home learning environment using picture and living books and real life for learning?
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CrunchyMom
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For Charlotte Mason, there are a few good articles linked on the home page of Mater Amabilis including one by Michelle Quigley. The Charlotte Mason Handbook that Michelle has as a freebie on her blog is a good "cliff notes" version of CM
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Martha in VA
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Whenever I attend a homeschooling conference/talk/etc., my husband typically goes with me. Over the years, these have really served to get my husband pumped up about this lifestyle we have chosen. If you have the CD's from the Real Learning conference, would he be willing to listen to those? Maybe in the car on his way to work?
Martha in VA
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Natalia
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I don't know if it addresses some of the issues here but Maureen Whitman has a webminar addressed to dads.
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Bookswithtea
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Jenn, one article I think you could easily find on the web that is really good is Gatto's The Lesson of the Bells, which I think really explains, in a man-thinking sort of way, the downsides of brick and mortar schools. Any articles by the old Elijah Co. are also often written by a dad and are very CM in philosophy. And if you have access to Managers of their Homes or Managers of their Schools, both books have chapters addressed specifically to Dad (I wouldn't make the investment just for these two chapters, though). Actually, now that I think about it, they have a free mailer that you can probably access from their website and scan the titles for ones on homeschooling written for Dads (www.titus2.com). They are fundamentalist Christians so definitely pre-read, but I have found most of their stuff to be a blessing. He talks to dads about things like being understanding when a wife buys a curriculum and it doesn't work, relating it to when a tool a Dad buys doesn't do the job and he has to go back and find something else.  Steve Wood has an article in The Catholic Homeschool Companion, something like, "21 Things a Dad Can do for the homeschool" or something like that. I haven't read it as I just borrowed the book from a friend.
We operate a lot like Willa describes above. I also tend to talk to dh when something isn't working, and I'll say things like, "we could go this way, or that way, and I'm not sure which way is best". He sees things I don't see. He also reminds me (often  ) that I need to not take on more work for myself than necessary.
Sometimes he says things I'm not excited about, but taking those suggestions has always been a blessing in the end. The other thing I do is maybe twice a year, I give dh a run down of how everyone is doing in a way that makes sense to him (ie: sounds schooly). I just let him know who is ahead or behind in what subjects, who has recently had a great breakthrough, what I'm doing to correct or catch up a child who is behind (or I'll tell him that its developmental so we are working on x y and z and will try again in a few months). I'll give examples like, "So and so is struggling with place value and keeps getting 21 and 12 confused". These kinds of details seem to make more sense to him than when I try to talk about the merits of one kind of philosophy over another.
Dh has gotten a lot more involved in curriculum choice as our kids have gotten older. I think he didn't worry much about K but the older they get (probably 7th up), the more details he wants. He doesn't read catalogues or anything like that, mind you! But he wants to be included in the decision making about upper level math curricula especially (I give him links, he takes forever to browse them and then usually chooses something I wouldn't have and I use it anyway  ).
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Willa
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Here's a link to Seven Lessons Taught in School which includes Lesson of the Bells.
If Gatto is too fiery for your DH, maybe some of the articles by Father Hardon or Father Fessio would hit the target better.
There are some at Thomas Aquinas Academy (some targeted specifically towards dads and some in the Seton newsletters
Also, on my blog I quoted part of a long interview with Fr Fessio -- the part I quoted had to do with homeschooling. here -- or go here for the whole interview.
One other Father who has spoken out very bluntly against formal education for young children, at least, is Father George Rutler --here's what he said
I don't know, maybe you could find something there that would help convince or reassure DHs who find it difficult to grasp how things are going when they don't see desks and pages of neat handwriting?
ETA: Sorry, Jenn I just realized this isn't really what you were asking for but maybe this thread will come in handy in the future so I'll leave the links up.
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Willa
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SuzanneG
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To go along with Lindsay's Mater Amabilis, here are a few links from Ambleside:
**Ambleside's "Brochure"
**Charlotte Mason 20 Principles from Ambleside
**Ambleside's FAQ
Also, in one/several of the "big overview" homeschool books......there are chapters on the different types/philosophies of home education. Maybe Mary Pride's or something like that???? I can't remember. The overviews were really good. That was a good chapter for my husband to read.
Also, in the past, as I have read Elizabeth's book, or other HS books, I will summarize a particular chapter I think is applicable in just a few sentences for him. The concept, the techniques, etc. I preface it with "Here is a homeschooling blurb from this book I'm reading."
That's our "code" for "I'm going to summarize something I think is important, you don't need to respond, but just tuck it away."
Steve Wood also has some audio about homeschooling that were helpful for my dh.
With us.....we sort of have the "long-term" goals of HS that we talk about a lot, and agree upon or discuss a lot. Why are we doing this? What is our long-term goal? In reference to this, what about something that would make you go through the the planning process together (or even part of it)? Simply Charlotte Mason ??? Does someone near you have the guide??? maybe that would help you "show him" certain aspects that you think he needs to see.
Also, the Attainments for a child of 6 always puts things in perspective for the younger set.
And, I do think "let them play" articles are really helpful for him to read, given the age of your son.
And, I remember showing dh the examples of the different "ways" out there for a K or a 1st grader. So, one night I'd show him the couple pages from DYOC...quickly summarized. The next night, the list from MA or AO for year 0. The next night, the pages from the CHC catalogue for the same year. The next night, a blog entry from an un-schooling mom of what they did that day. Then, an example of a unit study for littles. This isn't really time consuming, but just comparing apples to apples (same age/different concept) and doing a bit at a time, helped.
Going through a FIAR chapter with him (I summarized while pointing at the pages.....probably took 3 minutes) helped show the Picture Book concept....everything they learn from picture books. And, just reading picture books himself has helped appreciate that aspect of it.
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Erin
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Jenn
When I am reading philosophies and enthused I warble on to David (poor man ) so he gets to know all about Montessori, Charlotte Mason etc through me. Sometimes he reads a bits of a book himself if he catches the bug, (or I leave it by his bed) this way he knows what I am talking about. I also share with him the really interesting discussions here, often he will read the post and then we can talk philosophy.
(Btw Charlotte Mason's writings irritate him, too long winded sentences )
I've just asked David's advice, he says your dh needs to accept now that how you homeschool is a combination of your child's learning style and mum's teaching style. How I homeschool is not how he would homeschool  mmm I'll leave it to your imagination as to the conversation we have just had. I thought our approach was more US than that, looks like I need to do some more listening and stretching here.
I'm wondering if there would be any CDs on homeschool philosophies that your dh could listen to on the drive to work. Does anyone know of any?
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Erin wrote:
I've just asked David's advice, he says your dh needs to accept now that how you homeschool is a combination of your child's learning style and mum's teaching style. How I homeschool is not how he would homeschool mmm I'll leave it to your imagination as to the conversation we have just had. I thought our approach was more US than that, looks like I need to do some more listening and stretching here. |
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LOL I think that sounds far more "us" than you think. Your husband knows what's going on and why/how you do what you do with the kids and he accepts it as a good thing. That's great.
I think what your dh said is spot on.
My dh would probably say the same thing.
And it's true I do many things very differently from how dh would do it. Because his teaching/learning style is totally different from mine and because the kids respond to him differently.
I think if your dh shares his opinion when you ask or when he is concerned, then it's an "US" arrangement.
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I didn't have time to read all the answers but real briefly, my tactic has been sucessful.
1- First of all, I have often read passages out of a John Holt or Gatto book to dh (he can't commit to reading the entire thing himself) and we've had meaningful discussions about our visions of life education. This has been enormously helpful as he now is 100% behind whatever I do (or don't do).
2- We take time every night at dinner to talk about what we've done that day or learned new. Sounds little but the kids always have something to share and it makes dh kind of feel like a principal with whom they are checking in (he likes that).
3- He does as much learning with them as he can make time for. If he's building something or fixing something or volunteering somewhere, whenever possible he's good about bringing the boys and involving them and letting them "help" ... the character formation a child gets from seeing his/her father work is beyond words important. We've read a lot of James Stenson books on this kind of thing and it's helped dh see how important HIS role is in shaping the WHOLE child. And he takes that seriously.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: A Father's Pocket Guide to Homeschooling
