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JennGM
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I noticed that the new Faith and Life includes questions and answers based from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). These aren't the same as the Baltimore question and answers, but quite similar.
I grew up on the St. Joseph Baltimore catechism (and other versions), and know those answers very well. It's always been nice to have that pat answer when asked something doctrinal, to then pull out the meaning to explain in a discussion.
But I do like being more familiar and using the CCC, as it's our catechism, and will be used when they get older.
How do you incorporate the CCC in your religion instructions? Do you use both the Baltimore and CCC? Faith and Life Q&A to memorize? Both?
I'm just curious to see what other people do. I think for now I'm going to use the early Q&A from the St. Joseph catechism and use some of F&L alongside, and then pure CCC as he gets older.
Are there any other sources that use the CCC but in the Baltimore Catechism format?
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Tami
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Jenn, the language of the Baltimore Catechism makes it ideal for memorization (plus it's Aquinas distilled, according to Laura Berquist, and thus a good foundation for studying the Summma much later). The language of the CCC is not so easily digested for memory. I think LB also mentioned the same thing about the earlier version of F&L, that the questions there were more awkward, hence another reason for using the Baltimore Catechism (seems to me they were from Pius XII, but I could be waaayyy off in that fact....  )
Since I follow MODG, I use the Baltimore Catechism as she lays it out, both for memory and understanding. But in high school, I do use the CCC more for background reading to coincide with topics.
Hope this helps. 
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Mackfam
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Ahhhh...I frittered over this same question for so long, Jenn. I'm finally happy with where we've landed with it. I like the Faith and Life series as well as Image of God series. They're both good, solid catechetical programs! I do like that they're both based in the CCC. What wasn't working for us was having several students in different workbooks at different levels. We weren't getting any memorizing done. I tried to memorize the CCC questions, it just didn't work well for us. Admittedly, that could have been more an issue of my consistency than anything else. I was really going crazy trying to keep up, and at the time I only had two doing formal religion lessons. My children found the material generally dry. That isn't to say it wasn't solid, it just wasn't engaging my children. They read it, but couldn't tell me anything about it...which resulted in us reading it aloud...and then they could tell me a bit, but it wasn't really capturing them. It became time consuming for me...for us...and the kids were not looking forward to the level of time spent. I felt like I was hammering too much.
We were already living out the liturgical year through picture books, feast day celebrations, Mass, reading the lives of the Saints, etc. Our liturgical year celebrations were rich, and the children's vocabulary expressing their faith was also rich, what I felt we were missing was the opportunity for them to exercise their great gift for memorization.
So.....
I use the Baltimore Catechism in the elementary ages. I can have all the kids memorizing from St. Joseph's Baltimore Catechism which totally streamlines formal lessons. The remainder of "religion" comes from reading together of the saints, the liturgical year, living the feasts and ferias.
As my oldest dd has grown (she's now in 8th grade) I have gradually transitioned towards the CCC (though she's still working in the Balt.Cat. because remember I came to this realization later in the ballgame). I first taught her to use the Catechism of the CC - the index, the many helpful appendices in the back, the layout. Now we are taking some of the virtues and reading about them through the Catholic Girls Guide (Fr. Lasance), the lives of the saints, and researching as well through the CCC.
I'm finding her time spent memorizing the Baltimore Catechism has come in very handy and is a help for her - we are in an area where our need to defend the faith is met on a daily basis. At the jr. high/high school level the use of the CCC and its deeper, beautiful language has worked out well. This makes sense to me because one would normally work their way through Baltimore Catechism #2 before Confirmation. After Confirmation (and this is just my opinion, but I like how it is working in our home) I move them to use of and familiarity with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I see the 4 years of high school being spent primarily using the CCC and programs/approach of study based on it.
Does any of this make sense?
MY CATECHISM APPROACH FOR:
Preschool/Kindergarten up through 1st Communion
** Illustrated Catechism for Children
1st/2nd grade
** St. Joseph's First Communion Catechism
3rd-5th grade
** St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism #1
6th-8th grade
** St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism #2
High School
** Use of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
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DominaCaeli
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Mackfam wrote:
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It does to me, Jennifer! Just wanted to say thank you so much for explaining your approach--I really like the sound of it.
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Celeste
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ekbell
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There is always the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. 
It's based on and corrolated with the CCC but is in Q&A format like the Baltimore. In the introduction it is stated that "The dialogical [Q&A] format also lends itself to brevity in the text, by reducing it to what is essential. This may help the reader to grasp the contents and possibly to memorize them as well." The english translation ends with common prayers in English and Latin plus formulas of Catholic Doctrine (such things as the Beatitudes, corporal and spiritual acts of mercy... lists that should be memorized)
The language and the depth of the Compendium has made it a vital part of my ten minute spiritual reading in the morning.
(I read at least one Q&A every morning and try to ponder it over the day- Today's Question was # 363 "What is Freedom?")
I'm planning to use it in highschool along with the CCC.
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SuzanneG
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I always envisioned doing it how Jennifer explained it. Faith and Life and Image of God are "good" but seemed forced for me and not really nec. There really are only so many hours in a day and I prefer to take a couple minutes to memorize from the Baltimore Catechism, read a couple great stories, and celebrate the liturgical year.
Like you said, I look at the Baltimore Cat. as the foundation which can be explored more in the CCC later when older.
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ALmom
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We do things akin to Jennifer - but we do love the Faith and Life and use it for most of elementary. My lesson plans from Kolbe correlate and give you the option to either memorize the faith and life questions or the Baltimore Catechism.
From time to time, I will substitute a question or two from F & L instead of the Baltimore catechism. I choose whichever seems both realistic for my particular child to memorize and precise and understandable to them. Sometimes one is vaguer or oddly worded. Sometimes it is the other. Sometimes the Baltimore Catechism can sound very harsh and I know my children might misunderstand the intent and the other works better. We use the questions to explain the others. I write out what we are memorizing on index cards sort of like flash cards (and then label them for grade level and chapter of F &L).
There were a few things that our Bishop specifically requested be memorized a certain way for Confirmation prep - and honestly they were a fuller and more in depth expansion of the Baltimore Catechism. I think it was from the CCC.
Sometimes I find the language more precise in the CCC, sometimes in the Baltimore Catechism/Faith and Life. We read through both the Faith and life and the Baltimore Catechism. One thing we discuss is how doctrine doesn't change so if something is unclear in one compendium of doctrine, it will be made clearer in another. Sometimes the Baltimore Catechism can have a harsher flavor to the wording, but if you read the CCC too, you have a fuller appreciation of what both of them mean. (Obviously we get more into this at the older ages). I know at least a few times, I had trouble knowing exaclty what was meant by the CCC and pulled the Catechism of the Council of Trent out to read side by side with the CCC - knowing they could not contradict each other as both were summaries of doctrine. The one gave me a fuller understanding of what the CCC was trying to say, but the CCC said it in a way that came across far more charitably (probably because it was more in keeping with our own current circumstances). Comparing them side by side, the doctrine itself was the same just easier to understand the complete picture by reading both. The emphasis was different, not the doctrine itself.
By high school, my children are using the CCC as part of the assigned material and the Baltimore catechism is simply the groundwork on which to grow a deeper understanding. Ie we aren't doing any more memorizing or reading from the Baltimore catechism but it is there in their mind from all the earlier years we worked from it.
Janet
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JennGM
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Thank you for all the great responses!
Janet, I think your approach is closest to the way I would take. I have a tendency to pull from various sources and compile the best of all of them!
Is there any resource out there that takes the Baltimore Catechism questions and unites them with CCC reference numbers?
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Family in Feast and Feria
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MaryM
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Use both here - CCC mainly as they are older as mentioned (jr. high/high school), except for what is in F & L.
Your question also got me thinking of resources that use the CCC as a base but geared to children.
An Illustrated Catechism - Inos Biffi ("...this book is organized according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with a section corresponding to each of its four main parts.")
Divinity Religious Products, Inc. is a company that makes (made?) several CCC based products.
There are the Catholic Quiz flip books based on the CCC. We only have one - the 5th grade. Each question/answer is referenced to a paragraph of the CCC. I'm searching around and it doesn't look like these are in print any longer and are crazy expensive on Amazon. The company Divinity Religious Products doesn't seem to exist as a company but somehow it's materials seem to be incorporated into this Catholicquiz.com site, though it's all online quizes and material now. I did find that Catholic Family Catalog has the 4th and 5th grade ones. Anyone know status of company? I tried calling today - no answer.
They also had the Divinity Game - The New Catholic Catechism Learning System (not sure if it is still be manufactured but it is still available through various suppliers.)
And Arma Dei has these Catechism products:
Catechism Catcher Craft Kit and Catechism Cube Craft Kit
I sent Monica McConkey a message asking about them specifically and this is her response.
The Catechism Catcher has pretty standard lists of Catechism and Scriptural references, found largely in the CCC (and other approved reference books like The Catholic Source Book which heavily reference the CCC). It includes summaries of elements described within the question format of the Baltimore Catechism, but there may be some slight differences in the wording from at least the 1974 version of the Baltimore Catechism that I have.
Another on-line one -CateQUIZem - video interactive for jr. high/high school based on scripture and CCC.
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Martha in VA
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I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but I have some questions.
As a fairly new (2 years) Catholic, I'm still trying to figure out what instruction in the Catechism should look like in our family. My oldest dd is in 8th grade this year so I know I need to begin thinking towards Confirmation prep. Is it ideal that they actually memorize answers to the catechism questions or is the goal that they would understand the questions/answers and that some families use memorization as a means to that end?
My dd has been using Faith and Life with Kolbe for the past couple of weeks and finds it so dry it's turning her off. She has been through the Baltimore Catechism prior to this year but not with a goal of memorization.
I'm trying to decide what to do for this year to liven it up for her a bit.
Thanks for helping me understand.
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ALmom
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Martha:
The goal is both understanding and memorization. Think about Biology for a moment. You must use the precise vocabulary of the science to fully communicate and so you do a lot of definitions. It is easier to learn and memorize if you understand and of course understanding and living the faith are critical. Memorizing without ever understanding means it is all quickly forgotten which is not what you want.
What I often find as we are working on memorizations (we want to develop the skill of memorization so it might as well be something like the Catechism) is that we have lots of time to discuss, and emphasize things that are often ignored or forgotten. But whatever memory work we do (catechism or poetry or...)we do it in a more painless way. I am not in a rush to get through and we take a few things at a time and make sure they are in long term memory. One line of poetry at a time, one - 5 cards over the course of a week or two with 1 card per day kind of thing. I don't add in anything new until those are solid, then those become periodically reviewed as we add in the next 5. I don't worry about keeping up with someone else's plans, etc. As we are memorizing and they forget a part of the answer, we explain why that part of the answer is important (if it is a minor thing like whether there is a Thou or a You, obviously I don't care. We might talk about the formal, archaic language being a means some use for showing respect - sort of like some languages that have a formal and an informal you, but I'm fine with You). A lot of times the little things left out that seem insignificant can be important because the word has a precise meaning in the language and tradition of the church and they should know this. With older children we may talk about the history of some of the heresies that necessitated this more precise language. Oh and in the younger grades we aren't testing memory as much as making it more of a game. Since I never learned a lot of these, they get tickled when they can learn it faster than I can. The younger in the family are at a bit more disadvantage here, since I've now reviewed these things for the last 20 years - but then maybe they've overheard too. 
I do think having something in memory is important. I memorized Psalm 23 in 2nd grade. There was something about that Psalm that was there for me through thick and thin no matter what. We were not required to memorize any kind of catechism when I was growing up - not even the ten commandments and this made me very vulnerable to whatever wishy washy way someone wanted to represent something, usually to justify something we later learned was not permitted - and often it was with a funny twist that a memory of the precise language of the catechism would have avoided. There is a real precise definition of inerrency of scripture for instance and it doesn't just mean that it is true only in faith and morals (but not in history or science or...). There is a finer point that the catechism will bring out and that is that the Bible is without error in all that the authors intended to say - so if they intended to be presenting history here (ie eyewitness accounts of the resurrection), then it is without error not only in the faith message but also in the history it presents there. Memorizing these things with discussion and understanding are really a help. However, don't be harsh, don't be in a hurry to rush through the whole thing. Sometimes we do an initial read through and discussion one year, a memorization the next, etc. If these are totally unfamiliar, then start with getting the gist of it and do the exact memory work another year.
As far as Faith and Life, it can get dry in parts. It can also have some very beautiful and love based ways to present the faith. I found this essential for some of my very sensitive children who were not at all motivated by fear - but melted when the motive was love of God. I have never used F & L as a sole source. We use it for the beautiful way they inspire love of God - but when it comes to Bible history or Church history, lives of the Saints, we have a house full of books that we use and then come back to other chapters. I might read one of the supplemental Marian chapters and then introduce the main points during a feast day celebration. They may never even look at that chapter in the book, except to admire the art print. Other chapters, I just love the way they explain something and we read this.
I must say, though, that I have the older, original editions of F & L. I have looked at some of the more recent ones and these have more chapters - more questions and answers and much less art. I haven't read them so I don't know the content. I have had mom's wonder how I use F & L because they are overwhelmed by it. Invariably they have the newer more classroom geared version. I do think that there was some criticism that the early F& L was not as classroom friendly and that it did not emphasis community enough. We are aware of this and make sure we include the connections to our own parish, etc.
Obviously it doesn't work for everyone - and we tend to alternate years. For instance, 3rd grade is often a repeat of 2nd (kind of review after First Communion). My children don't need to do a full text all over again. So, we might take 2nd grade slowly, sometimes even beginning with this in 1st. Then we do a Bible History using the Bible and reading lives of Saints, then go back to 4th or 5th depending on which year we did a Bible History year. Either 7th or 8th is church history and we just do that with our own rich resources and read some of the chapters in F & L that are more doctrinely based. We adjust each year depending on the need of the particular child.
Textbooks are always repetitive, and that is often what can make them seem dull to children when you are learning at a deep level the first time through. Be aware of what is covered in each level. It is easy for me to read a chapter, know we have covered it but appreciate one or two deeper ways of approaching and we might find a way to slip this in with a project we are doing, feast day celebration or some other book we happen to be using.
Janet
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JennGM
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MaryM wrote:
Use both here - CCC mainly as they are older as mentioned (jr. high/high school), except for what is in F & L.
Your question also got me thinking of resources that use the CCC as a base but geared to children.
An Illustrated Catechism - Inos Biffi ("...this book is organized according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with a section corresponding to each of its four main parts.")
Divinity Religious Products, Inc. is a company that makes (made?) several CCC based products.
There are the Catholic Quiz flip books based on the CCC. We only have one - the 5th grade. Each question/answer is referenced to a paragraph of the CCC. I'm searching around and it doesn't look like these are in print any longer and are crazy expensive on Amazon. The company Divinity Religious Products doesn't seem to exist as a company but somehow it's materials seem to be incorporated into this Catholicquiz.com site, though it's all online quizes and material now. I did find that Catholic Family Catalog has the 4th and 5th grade ones. Anyone know status of company? I tried calling today - no answer.
They also had the Divinity Game - The New Catholic Catechism Learning System (not sure if it is still be manufactured but it is still available through various suppliers.)
And Arma Dei has these Catechism products:
Catechism Catcher Craft Kit and Catechism Cube Craft Kit
I sent Monica McConkey a message asking about them specifically and this is her response.
The Catechism Catcher has pretty standard lists of Catechism and Scriptural references, found largely in the CCC (and other approved reference books like The Catholic Source Book which heavily reference the CCC). It includes summaries of elements described within the question format of the Baltimore Catechism, but there may be some slight differences in the wording from at least the 1974 version of the Baltimore Catechism that I have.
Another on-line one -CateQUIZem - video interactive for jr. high/high school based on scripture and CCC. |
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Great list of resources. We love Inos Biffi books.
Would one of these have what I'm looking for -- based on the CCC, but references which # Baltimore Catechism questions to refer? Seems to me we have had something like that posted somewhere. Or even CCC# compared to BC#?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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ekbell
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This site Nazareth Master Catechism gives comparisons of four Catechisms including both the Baltimore # 4 (1891) and the CCC.
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florasita
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I use both the Baltimore & CCC then just library , online etc. for other resources .Our children did not like F&L series at all .
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Moni
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Quote:
| How do you incorporate the CCC in your religion instructions |
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I haven't yet.
I was kind of not planning to....?......
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JennGM
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ekbell wrote:
This site Nazareth Master Catechism gives comparisons of four Catechisms including both the Baltimore # 4 (1891) and the CCC.
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I think this is what I thinking of. That site is wonderful. But still, doesn't it seem like there would be a place where a Baltimore Catechism question would have a corresponding CCC? And vice versa? The site above is a little hard to navigate.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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MaryM
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Jenn, I think you are going to have to write that book yourself . But seriously - I think you should ask Linda Nelson at Sacred Heart Books. If something like that exists in print, I'll bet she would know.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Paula in MN
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JennGM wrote:
| ...doesn't it seem like there would be a place where a Baltimore Catechism question would have a corresponding CCC? And vice versa? |
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I agree with Mary - looks like you'll have to write it yourself! I'll volunteer to be a buyer!
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SylviaB
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Has anyone used the Our Holy Faith Books from Neuman Press or the Little Flowers Family Apostalates lesson plans? Looks like they both use the Baltimore Catechism with it.
Our Holy Faith
Little Flowers Family Apostalates
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JennGM
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MaryM wrote:
| Jenn, I think you are going to have to write that book yourself . But seriously - I think you should ask Linda Nelson at Sacred Heart Books. If something like that exists in print, I'll bet she would know. |
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I did ask, and she asked friends who would know, and said no source exists in print.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Catechism Questions
