| Author | |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 6:39am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
My plan was to read "Before you Were Born" from Catholic Stories From Science this week. There is a line that reads, "At conception, the moment the mother's seed is joined with he father's, God makes a brand new person, in His image, with its very own immortal soul."
The concept is revisited in the comprehension questions. The target audience for this book in my house ranges in age from 4-10. I cannot imagine that they will let that sentence go unexplained.
What seeds do mommy and daddy have?
Where are the seeds?
And then, the inevitable:
How do they get joined together?
This is a book in the second grade curriculum. Am I being squeamish? Is this the time to read this??
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mumofsix
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
No, in my opinion, you are not being squeamish or over-sensitive. All children in the 4 to 10 age bracket need/want to know are that babies grow in their mummies' tummies and that God blesses a father and a mother with their children.
The facts of life, of conception etc. are appropriate for older children around puberty, depending a lot on the level of maturity of the child as to exactly when.
The document "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality" put out by the Pontifical Council for the Family under the auspices of Cardinal Lopez Trujillo sets out in some detail what to teach to children and when. It is really excellent.
Jane.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marianne
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 22 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
We recently read this at our house too - for my 9,7,and 6 year old. My heart skipped a beat when we got to that part, but none of the kids batted an eye lash or asked any questions. I think I skipped the comprehension question on that - I didn't want to delve any deeper at that moment. Of course, your kids might be really interested! Mine just wanted to be done with school so they could go play.
__________________
\
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 7:05am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't have any great advice - but we *did* read this here a few weeks ago. Silly me for just jumping in before "pre-reading" it!   The ones listening were 8 and 6, and my 8yo did ask the inevitable. *Including* "does this sometimes happen with people who are not married yet?"...I think that's what I get for discussing my adoption She really made a leap to put two and two together though. We skipped the comprehension questions (as we often do, for other reasons).
Maybe you could self-edit and just say, "At conception, God makes a brand new person, in His image..."
You have my prayers, whatever you decide to do.
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
mumofsix wrote:
The document "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality" put out by the Pontifical Council for the Family under the auspices of Cardinal Lopez Trujillo sets out in some detail what to teach to children and when. It is really excellent.
Jane. |
|
|
I love that document Jane and wrote a series of columns on it about three or four babies ago. It was the exhortation to the preservation of innocence in that document that made me question this. But, I've had no sleep and this is a "good Catholic book" and so here I am, again, questioning my judgment. Thanks for helping me think straight.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 8:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Will your children accept it if, when they ask these questions, you say "this is something you will learn more about when you are older" ? It ususally works here as my dc seem to know and accept when they are not ready for a topic.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 8:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
hmmm, a question....Please don't bury me in tomatoes.
What about procreation in nature? Don't any children have at least a basic idea just via observation?
For example we studied eggs last week and found out that the germinal disk (that white spot on the yolk) is where the sperm enters the egg. More than I wanted to know at breakfast, but there you go.
We watched a PBS show about turtles yesterday. Yep, there's how turtles mate. Many people would not let their kids watch that?
I have no memory of ever not knowing what s*x is. You cannot grow up in a zoo and not catch the concept.
I don't think I was less innocent for that knowledge. Any more than knowing why the sky is blue should make us less appreciative of a beautiful day.
We've just been honest with our kids and left it at that. Moms have eggs inside their bodies. Dads have sperm inside their bodies. When they get married, God makes them one. And sometimes that means the eggs and the sperm come together, and God makes a new soul at that time. This is a private thing between a married couple and God. Basic biology with a good dose of catechism. 
I know everyone must do best by their own children, but so far I've seen nothing adverse from my approach?
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 8:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
my view is similar to martha's. i grew up on a farm and knew early on what 'mating' was. my kids love animal shows. i don't call any of that a 'special hug.'  i do say the animals are mating and will have babies soon. we had a baby early this summer - my 8 yr old asked more specific questions and i answered them. honestly, i like the way they view sex - it's something natural that animals do to produce babies. their understanding is very simplistic, and their questions are simple and natural. it hasn't occurred to them that unmarried pple have babies. i prefer that they know the basics when they are younger and that i add the moral teachings when they are old enough to understand them.
i feel really good about how i have handled this topic in our home. just another perspective. . .
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sarah
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1624
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 1:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
IMO, that's a little more info than I'd want my kids of the same age knowing.
__________________
Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
and of course that's just fine - that's why the good Lord gives different parents to different kids.
Mine are also very simple and innocent, imho. If they have questions, they are probably old enough for moral answers of some degree. I would never consider giving only the biological facts. Human sexuality is far more than just the natural means of producing babies. We are not just animals.
And I don't think Mary meant it that way at all either. Just want to be clear on my own opinion!
I have the opinion children will only ask for so long. Then they won't ask at all. I would rather give honest answers to questions when asked. It doesn't have to be a complete answer. But in our house, it is an honest, matter of fact, moral answer.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
kingvozzo
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2005
Location: Maine
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2653
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 5:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok, here's my stab at an answer--I hope it makes some sense.
My ds8 is familiar with how animals mate. We have made a specific point of never associating animals mating with anything having to do with people. We never talk about animals marrying, etc. He has no concept that anything remotely similar happens with people. He was perfectly content with the explanation that God puts the baby in the mommy's womb. I haven't encountered any questions about babies where the mother isn't married. As far as ds is concerned, one must be married to have a baby.
Regarding the "seed" issue. We had a similar situation not too long ago when a neighbor mentioned that it was the cell from the father that determined whether a baby was a boy or a girl. That allowed me to explain that a cell from the father joins with a cell from the mother to make a baby. He didn't ask any specific questions about how the cell gets from one to the other. I always frame these questions around the general answer that it's a miracle that God allows to happen between a husband and a wife, God is amazing, etc. Ds has been satisfied with these answers, and I still feel like his innocence is being protected.
I hope this is some help.
__________________
Noreen
Wife to Ed
Mom to 4 great kids and 10 sweet ones in Our Lady's arms
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
whether my children are asking about pollen or chicken eggs or their new sister, i find myself answering their questions honestly. i don't think that i give too much information, on the other hand, i don't want reproduction to be something about which they ask other kids instead of my dh or me.
i do try to give moral teaching with regard to human reproduction. to me, it makes more sense to discuss some moral issues once a framework of basic reproduction is made. we haven't discussed gay/lesbian or out of wedlock babies, but i think that it will be easier to do this without having to first explain the basics of reproduction. my children are probably pretty naive about morality surrounding this issue - they think only married pple have babies.
what will my girlfriend do, who has a gay bil? should she wait until her children have noticed the bil with his 'friend?' and then discuss both basic reproduction AND morality? should i ignore questions like 'are we eating fertilized chicken eggs?" from my kids? maybe your nosy, chatty kids don't follow you into the bathroom, but if they do and notice your mini pad collection, how do you explain the box? and if an 8yr asking these questions is too young, then at what age is this discussion appropriate?
maybe other pple's children don't ask so many questions! i think it's wise to do what is best for one's own family. i found the catholic book - the joyful mysteries of life to be a wonderful help to me for these kinds of discussions. the first chapter explains menstruation - it describes the uterus as the first cradle and that if there is no baby, the cradle isn't needed that month. that's the kind of explaining i want my kids to hear when they are asking me about reproduction.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 6:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh I second the Joyful Mysteries of Life it is great.
I'm in process of ordering the Young Man's Guide for my oldest boys.... I have high hopes for it as it comes highly recommended.
Maybe other people's dc don't ask so many questions! Yeah... I'm wondering that too!
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Taffy
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 05 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1567
|
| Posted: Sept 05 2006 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Personally, explaining the "birds and the bees" to my children hasn't been very stressful for me and I'm comfortable with our approach.
Everyone has to do what's best for their own particular families.
Quote:
| maybe your nosy, chatty kids don't follow you into the bathroom, but if they do and notice your mini pad collection, how do you explain the box? and if an 8yr asking these questions is too young, then at what age is this discussion appropriate? |
|
|
I have to comment on this. 8 years old is definitely NOT too young to explain what the mini pad collection is for. I started menstruating at 9 years old and didn't have a clue what was going on. I was freaked right out. All my mom did was smile a little, tell me not to worry, give me a pad and tell me to use it. I didn't figure things out until about 3 cycles went by! (Yes, I was a little dense.)
Sorry to rant on this but please avoid doing this to your own daughters. Of course, my boys won't get an explanation until they are older - they won't need one.
__________________
Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
Susan's Soliloquy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
afranciscan
Forum Rookie
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Sept 06 2006 at 12:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary I'm glad you mentioned the homosexuality issue. We have a very close family member who is actively living that lifestyle and they can't be completely avoided without shunning or moving out of state  Neither of those are options right now so it's really important to me that our children get a clear, healthy perspective on sexuality from US and not from things they "sense" or hear cousins talk about or whatever. This is heartwrenching to me. I really wanted to prolonged innocence with friends who were on the same page. Turns out we've had to get into the topic sooner than we wanted and most of the children's friends watch plenty of TV or videos and are exposed to far more pop-culture in general. It's either that or isolation. I guess everyone has to consider their unique situation and go from there.
Jennie Lou
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sarah
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1624
|
| Posted: Sept 06 2006 at 10:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Sarah wrote:
| IMO, that's a little more info than I'd want my kids of the same age knowing. |
|
|
Martha & Mary-
I wrote that to Elizabeth. I didn't read the whole thread before I commented--oops. It sounded kind of rude toward you both. That's what I get for trying to post quickly!
You are right, each of us has to follow the path we think is right for each kid.
__________________
Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 06 2006 at 10:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
 I didn't think you were rude at all. Don't sweat it.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: Sept 06 2006 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This is a topic I have struggled with. My children, other than the 15yr old obviously, have no idea about sex, whether in animals or humans. They do not know that the father is involved at all. They think of babies as a gift from God that He gives you when He wants to and that we, Mom and Dad, don't have much say in the matter. They do know that women can take medicine to stop from having a baby and they know what abortion is. But they don't see why having a baby outside of marriage is wrong because they think God puts the baby there. I have tried to explain that it is better for the baby to have a mom and dad, but without explaining more it doesn't really make sense to them. I feel like I am hiding something. I guess part of me does not want to open that can of worms.
My second child is a ten year old girl. We have talked about menstruation and its purpose, but have not gone farther than that. But it needs to be soon. What is cute and cuddly at 6 with Daddy or uncles (sitting on laps or lying down next to), is not appropriate at 10.
I admit to being squeamish about the whole thing. Maybe it is a reflection of upbringing and personal experience.
I have been wondering though, that if simple, matter-of- fact knowledge, as Martha presents to her kids, doesn't necessarily mean a loss of innocence. It seems that it would be easier to teach the virtues of modesty and chastity earlier on if they had some understanding of life. It feels strange to try to skirt the issue when simple questions come up.
I would not be comfortable giving a full biological explanation , I certainly wasn't even when I had to with my oldest. But I am thinking of one of those younger books that talk about a "special hug" between parents would help to explain all that talk that they hear about who the baby looks like, or why it is Daddy's fault we have all these girls.
Keep talking ladies, I am listening with interest.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: CatholicStories fr Science & "conception"
