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Sarah
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| Posted: June 29 2007 at 8:31am | IP Logged
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I have been reading old threads about Bravewriter.
Now that time has passed, was the Writer's Jungle worth the $$$ for your family?
What's in it? I can't find any sample pages.
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SuzC
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If I can piggy-back Sarah's question...
does anyone have the 2nd edition with the additional 26 pages? I just bought a used 1st edition and was wondering what I'm missing.
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Martha
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sarah - no not imho
suz - don't know
mine was given to me or i never would have been able to afford it
it's okay I guess, nothing earth shattering. Way too expensive. I would never pay more than maybe $50 for something like that. And I'd cringe over spending $50 bucks for it. But who knows what I know? I feel the same about IEW. I don't care how great it is, there really isn't that much to it's physical nature to make me see it being worth those kinds of dollars.
They say it's worth it because it'll save you from buying all those dozens of other books over the years. But it's not a dozen books. It's one flimsy binder filled with paper. That is one really expensive binder and paper!  I don't know that it is cheaper because they have all those other add-on products. Seems like before you know it, you spend the cost of dozens of books for one binder AND the cost of dozens of additional books for their add-ons.
So there is my very long winded opinion. Take it with a grain of salt and the knowledge that if it's a miracle worker for YOU, then it's going to feel worth it. 
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Sarah
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| Posted: June 30 2007 at 12:26pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Martha. I appreciate opinions such as these .
I wonder if you can hunt down similar ideas as those in the Writer's Jungle and put together your own binder. . .
Then again, you have to spend time "hunting" so maybe people feel that their time is worth the $$$$$$.
I have an excellent Lang Arts method textbook from my elem. ed. degree days. I wonder if it has similar info. . .
Hmm. . . thinking aloud here. . .
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lapazfarm
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Hi Sarah!
This is an interesting question.
On the one hand, I LOVE Julie's methods for writing. I think she is a perfect match for our family. I love the Bravewriter lifestyle and have followed it loosely for 2 years, seeing much wonderful fruit.
On the other hand, I have the Writers Jungle (first edition) and I think one could get the vast majority of the information in the book just by reading all of the articles on the website and joining the Bravewriter lifestyle group.
It is nice to have the book as it saves me time online when I want to re-read a section of it, but I do not think it is completely necessary to have the book to implement the Bravewriter methods. In fact, I had already implemented it in our homeschool for several months before ordering the book and I am not certain I changed anything after receiving and reading it.
That said, I do think her method is fantastic, and I do not hesitate to recommend it wholeheartedly. The book IS wonderful and does a fantastic job of detailing the methods.
I also hesitate saying that the book is totally unnecessary, just that I think if you were concerned about the price and trying to save some money (who isn't, right!?!) then you COULD do without it just fine.
I'd like to see what the new edition adds, but am not going to spend the money on the upgrade, if that tells you anything.
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 30 2007 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
it's okay I guess, nothing earth shattering. Way too expensive. I would never pay more than maybe $50 for something like that. And I'd cringe over spending $50 bucks for it. But who knows what I know? I feel the same about IEW. I don't care how great it is, there really isn't that much to it's physical nature to make me see it being worth those kinds of dollars. |
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Martha,
In both cases, you are not paying for the physical nature. You are paying for the expertise of the authors of those programs. You are paying for the careful compilation of their research and their experience. Some people might find that $50 is quite a bargain for a writing program that resonates with their families and can be used over and over again for every child. And in the case of IEW, you are paying for DVDs initially, too (or you should be because the program is intended for use after the teacher training). While it's true that DVD plastic is cheap and so is duplication, the manpower, knowledge, and equipment that go into their production is not. It has value. So, all in all, you are not merely paying for the paper and plastic, you are paying for the people. In the case of both IEW and Bravewriter, there are FREE online support people that are priceless. They make that initial monetary investment worth even more. Fifty bucks sounds like quite bargain, even at twice the price .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Martha
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| Posted: June 30 2007 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Some people might find that $50 is quite a bargain for a writing program that resonates with their families and can be used over and over again for every child. |
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Yes, and I noted that it would be worth it if it works for a family.
Thing is, if it doesn't work for a person, that's one whopper of a wasted expense. It's just as big a loss whether an expert wrote it or not.
I have zero issue with anyone wanting to buy and finding benefit with either program. For that kind of money, I sure hope it work great for them!
Just saying that *I* can't personally recommend them. 
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Sarah
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Elizabeth wrote:
| You are paying for the careful compilation of their research and their experience. |
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So true. Its great to have people out there who go to so much work to make hs-ing better!! 
I guess the hard part is that we cannot easily preview and test things out without buying. It just wouldn't be practical or sensible for the seller to let us all test drive. I've always thought that to be a frustrating part of hs-ing. . .not seeing first what you are buying. 
Now I feel bad that I wrote " worth it" as a title for this post. I guess what I was really asking was how people liked it!  I think I'll edit that.
Afterall, $100 divided among all the children wouldn't be unreasonable if it the program was right for one's family.
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MarilynW
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Sarah wrote:
Now I feel bad that I wrote " worth it" as a title for this post. I guess what I was really asking was how people liked it! I think I'll edit that.
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Sarah - I do not think you need to feel bad about your question. The nice thing about forums like this is that one can get a wide variety of advice and opinions. I am on a tight budget and agonize over and research every purchase - and I still have made mistakes.  Writing programs and science resources tend to be my big mistakes. And a $100 purchase is a big amount of my budget. Espeicially as with some purchases, what works for some kids does not necessarily work for others.
Re Bravewriter/Writers Jungle - what I would recommend (just my opinion) is to try the Bravewriter lifestyle for a period with all your kids (ideas from the website) - and if you/they like it then consider purchasing WJ. You can also purchase single copies of the Arrow to see if you like the setup of dictation, copywork etc. I think it is very CM friendly and my kids really like it. Another thing you can do is to email Julie Bogart and ask for advice. I cannot remember the ages of your kids - but I emailed her and she gave me some great advice - pros for buying WJ and also how to do without it.
I am still figuring out writing for next year - because we will be doing it "naturally" through all our unit studies etc - I am trying to figure out how much extra I need.
(And before you ask - yes I am still hanging in here - made it to 37 weeks - induction looming soon unless I go in the next couple of days. I have never been this big before - maybe I will have my first 7lb baby!!! )
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Sarah
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MarilynW wrote:
(And before you ask - yes I am still hanging in here - made it to 37 weeks - induction looming soon unless I go in the next couple of days. I have never been this big before - maybe I will have my first 7lb baby!!! ) |
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I was going to ask . I'm still praying for you and was just thinking of you today.
You made it to 37 weeks!! Your baby should breathe just fine.
Can't wait to hear. . .
Okay, back to WJ. . .
Thanks for the input. Still not sure what I'm doing.
A funny thing happened to me several days ago.
I had a bunch of workbooks and such picked out, had two different windows open on the computer with two different "shopping carts" full. . .went to press "send" on the order and the (whole house) power went out-for no obvious reason..  Lost it all after spending way too much time on the computer.
Maybe God wanted me to wait and look into something else
So here I am. . . 
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Elizabeth
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Sarah wrote:
Now I feel bad that I wrote " worth it" as a title for this post. I guess what I was really asking was how people liked it! I think I'll edit that.
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Sarah,
Please don't feel badly. Asking people's opinions on a program and even asking if it's worth the money is something I think we all should do here. My objection was assigning value to something based opinion its physical materials. Writer's jungle is a three ring notebook filled with paper, but it's worth much more than the sum of its material parts.
Do you subscribe to the Bravewriter lifestyle reminders? That's a great way to "try on" the philosophy. It's completely free and it definitely enhances the value of Writer's Jungle should you choose to purchase that.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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The other thing to consider is how you like to learn information. I have tried the Bravewriter lifestyle loop and I have read some of the articles online. I own about 6 of the Arrow back issues, too. I have yet to make any good use out of them. But its not because they aren't good. I think its because I learn better when I can hold something in my hand, on my couch or on my front porch, with a cup of tea. I did much better with Flylady's book than I ever did with the website and loop, too.
I have a first edition and I don't really feel compelled to buy the update. It was a big expense for me, up front, but its not one I regret and I don't intend to sell mine. I pull it out when I'm wavering on what is best for certain children at certain times. Her ideas have always worked. When I am feeling confident, it sits on my shelf and waits for the times when I need it. I do think I will buy the high school manual at some point, but not this year. I've got a plan for 9th grade LA. But I will want Julie's expertise when it comes to lots of composition, timed essay writing and all of that stuff.
Just my .02
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Martha
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Bookswithtea wrote:
The other thing to consider is how you like to learn information. I have tried the Bravewriter lifestyle loop and I have read some of the articles online. I own about 6 of the Arrow back issues, too. I have yet to make any good use out of them. But its not because they aren't good. I think its because I learn better when I can hold something in my hand, on my couch or on my front porch, with a cup of tea. I did much better with Flylady's book than I ever did with the website and loop, too.
I have a first edition and I don't really feel compelled to buy the update. It was a big expense for me, up front, but its not one I regret and I don't intend to sell mine. I pull it out when I'm wavering on what is best for certain children at certain times. Her ideas have always worked. When I am feeling confident, it sits on my shelf and waits for the times when I need it. I do think I will buy the high school manual at some point, but not this year. I've got a plan for 9th grade LA. But I will want Julie's expertise when it comes to lots of composition, timed essay writing and all of that stuff.
Just my .02 |
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Okay. This is a fine point. I have zero desire to spend time on yet another loop, board, or to buy this AND the Arrow or whatever else. This was a major drawback for me.
I thought about this thread and found what was bugging me. I did my own pet peeve. I didn't offer constructive criticism. So here's my better thought out opinion.
Much of her (Julie Bogart's) writing in the WJ was not helpful because it seemed to just restate several other Charlotte Mason teaching methods, which I'd already found in other materials. Another fault, imho, was much ink was spent bashing other methods, which obviously I wasn't interested in if I was holding her binder - thus a bit annoying.
I thought some of the exercises in it were very good though and we enjoyed doing many of them last year. The meaty parts were found in the last page or two of each chapter, the review or recap sections. For me, I could have tossed the rest of the book and kept only those sections. However, I wouldn't have paid $90 for just those sections either. She also really seems to encourage writing WITH the budding student, the final product is part moms and part students work. That's not my style at all and was difficult to manage with multiple children.
As another poster noted, if you are looking for a little pep talk for doing writing this way, the WJ does do that very well. But yeah, if you don't need the pep talk, the binder may just gather dust on the shelf.
I don't have high school children yet, so I have no idea how helpful it is at that stage.
There. I hope that's a better worded opinion on why *I* didn't think the WJ would be worth $90.
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LLMom
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She also has a forum so you can ask questions about her program and you can view the archives. It also is easy to sell used if you don't like it but harder to find used if you want a used copy to begin with. I love her style.
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anneleisa
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I think buying Bravewriter depends upon how ‘brave’ you already are with writing. So many in this forum seem to have a writing background, so maybe many don’t need the extra boost. I bought this program three years ago, as I was just finding out about the Charlotte Mason methods, and it was extremely helpful to me. It also led me to a more CM approach. Spending money on her program DID save me many $$ in workbooks, etc. with other programs. Before CM, I was on the ‘push early’ road. Bravewriter helped me to relax not only with writing, but with all areas of language arts (grammar, spelling, etc.). I have noticed much improvement every year, without spending money on language programs, workbooks, etc. I have spent $$ on a few back issues of the Arrow, just to get a feel for how she did things, but I have since gone on my own for dictation/copywork.
I echo others—looking through her website and forums will give you the best feel for if it is worth it. She also has a Bravewriter blog, in which she just posted information about whether buying the Writer’s Jungle is worth it…http://www.bravewriter.com/blog2/?p=559.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Writer’s Jungle?
