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tovlo4801
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I was digging around the internet today trying to find the connection between Charlotte Mason (or PNEU) and GK Chesterton that I thought I'd seen somewhere. In the course of my search I stumbled on the site Sedes Sapientiae: A Catholic Home Educators Resource.
The information I found there was anti-CCM. I have not yet read Divini Illius Magistri, but I think an excerpt from this encyclical was what gave me pause about Catholic unschooling in Homeschooling with Gentleness. I was hoping that someone in that discussion would provide some explanations that were more convincing about the Chruch actually not discouraging unschooling. Now I've stumbled across this document again discouraging another form of education I'm strongly moving toward.
Has anyone looked closely at this encyclical and discerned that it still allows for an unschooling or CCM style of education as acceptable? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
Would anyone be interested in reading this with me and discussing as we go along?
As I read the sections on the Sedes Sapientiae site I began pondering several things. I remember someone here saying that they didn't agree with certain things CM says. I'm wondering where those points of disagreement between a faithful Catholic and CM are?
Also, if we accept that an education outside of the fold of Catholicism is not ideal, then what constitutes an education inside the fold of Catholicism? Is it only overtly catholic perspectives and catholic flavored stories? Or can an education that includes other perspectives and stories about other subjects still be infused enough with catholicism to qualify as an education within the fold? Where is that point between a catholic education and a non-catholic education?
I'd love to discuss all these kinds of questions and I suspect the encyclical will give plenty of starting points. Any interest?
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Willa
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Richelle,
I'd love to discuss with you 
I didn't see anything in my quick reading of those excerpts that would contra-indicate CM, or unschooling. Unless one could demonstrate that those things were unCatholic by definition.
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Willa
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mrsgranola
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I'm not CM expert, for sure. But my thoughts about this website so far are:
1) Truth and beauty come from God. Just b/c something (curricula, literature, poetry, nature books, etc.) doesn't overtly talk about religion or Catholicism doesn't mean it's not from Truth. It still can be worthwhile and beneficial to a good Catholic education.
2) Some folks will be unhappy with anything that's not burned on a holy tablet as far as what God wants us to use in our homeschool. ( I don't mean to be testy but this has been my experience over many experiences.  ) I do believe some folks would find fault in most anything if they try hard enough. 
So Charlotte Mason herself was not perfect, fair enough. I do believe there's much to be gleaned from her writings, however, to the benefit of our chidren.
FWIW,
JoAnna
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Willa
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"O Catholic Church, true Mother of Christians! ...Childlike thou are in molding the child, strong with the young man, gentle with the aged, dealing with each according to his needs of mind of body. Thou does subject child to parent in a sort of free servitude, and settest parent over child in a jurisdiction of love."
I liked the above quote from Divini Illius Magistri and thought it kind of describes a kind of "homeschooling with gentleness". Anyway, my ideal of a homeschool is something similar -- freedom in love, responsiveness, voluntary and reciprocal service.
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Willa
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alicegunther
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The Sedes Sapientiae site provides only a few paragraphs of a long and wonderful encyclical. My understanding is that it was written in response to the growing pressure on parents in some countries to send their children to public or other non-Catholic schools. The encyclical correctly warns against the effects of removing God from the classroom, and I believe the drastic cultural changes we have seen in our country in the relatively short time since the encyclical was written (1929) more than prove its wisdom. Reading through some of Pope Pius XI's words makes me very glad to be a Catholic home educator, although I admit I have not yet read all 102 paragraphs in the complete encyclical.
As far as Charlotte Mason's educational methods, I did not read anything in the excerpts provided at the website to say that these methods could not be used in a completely Catholic program. The primary elements of a Charlotte Mason style education--nature study, living books, short lessons, narration, time spent outdoors, habit training, handwork--are certainly not protestant in and of themselves. There is obviously a huge difference between method and content, although I think this distinction is blurred in the parenthetical commentary at the Sedes Sapientiae site.
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momwise
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alicegunther wrote:
| The primary elements of a Charlotte Mason style education--nature study, living books, short lessons, narration, time spent outdoors, habit training, handwork--are certainly not protestant in and of themselves. |
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This is absolutely true. I can't fathom which of these methods could possibly be labeled anti-Catholic.
Catholics have always adopted whatever is derived from truth and molded it to become fully true. In other words, adding Catholic thought, Catholic books, Litugical elements, Sacraments, Saints' writings, feasts, Virtues training from a Catholic basis, Catechism, etc. to the above quoted elements gives us a thouroughly Catholic education.
My thought after re-reading the article and excerpts several times is that there has to some misunderstanding of what we do in Catholic CM. For instance there is the warning against non-Catholic literature. We do not sit around reading anti-Catholic literature for fun. On the contrary, we use a Catholic Bible, Catholic apologetics materials, writings of the saints, Catholic resource materials for theology and philosophy, etc.
I'm also worried by the lack of author credits in all the articles on this site as well as the strict proof-texting without context or examples.
Richelle, I think a discussion of CCM and Unschooling based on the encyclical would be 2 seperate topics. I'd like to read it.
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JennGM
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I came across this site recently and didn't give it much thought. The whole site does not use ALL the Church's teaching on education. I don't know if the author is a sedevacantist, but nothing after Vatican II is quoted or recommended or used. If someone wants to accuse *me* of not being Catholic in my education of my child, he/she should have all the tools of the Catholic faith first!
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Willa
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momwise wrote:
Catholics have always adopted whatever is derived from truth and molded it to become fully true. In other words, adding Catholic thought, Catholic books, Litugical elements, Sacraments, Saints' writings, feasts, Virtues training from a Catholic basis, Catechism, etc. to the above quoted elements gives us a thouroughly Catholic education.
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Gwen, you almost paraphrase the encyclical here -- which says --
"In such a school, in harmony with the Church and the Christian family, the various branches of secular learning will not enter into conflict with religious instruction to the manifest detriment of education. And if, when occasion arises, it be deemed necessary to have the students read authors propounding false doctrine, for the purpose of refuting it, this will be done after due preparation and with such an antidote of sound doctrine, that it will not only do no harm, but will an aid to the Christian formation of youth."
" In such a school moreover, the study of the vernacular and of classical literature will do no damage to moral virtue. There the Christian teacher will imitate the bee, which takes the choicest part of the flower and leaves the rest, as St. Basil teaches in his discourse to youths on the study of the classics.[51] Nor will this necessary caution, suggested also by the pagan Quintilian,[52] in any way hinder the Christian teacher from gathering and turning to profit, whatever there is of real worth in the systems and methods of our modern times, mindful of the Apostle's advice: "Prove all things: hold fast that which is good."[53] "
I agree with your other points about the web site. I do not think the author understands CM, OR what we who use some of her methods do in our homeschools. I found the anonymity and lack of substance a bit eerie as well. ... but perhaps you have explained what I saw as lack of substance -- you think the articles are simply taking the wrong tack because the author misunderstands and therefore targets the wrong things. That's a really good point.
Anyway I was thinking that Kolbe where my kids are enrolled uses quite a bit of vernacular and secular material and no one has ever called them un-Catholic, because the above Divini quote is their umbrella and they stay under it.
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Willa
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tovlo4801
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mrsgranola wrote:
| Some folks will be unhappy with anything that's not burned on a holy tablet as far as what God wants us to use in our homeschool. |
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Joanna,
That made me laugh so hard! I guess I'd have to admit to being someone who would find this whole journey so much easier if God would just burn some plans on a holy tablet to follow.
Oh well! I guess I'll just have to keep muddling through.
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tovlo4801
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Willa,
I'm so glad you want to discuss this! I have to tell you that yesterday I kept digging around and found the review at love2learn.net on CM's writings. I was reading through the review thinking, "yes, yes, yes!" When I got to the end I just smiled to see that it was by you. I should have known. Your words are always so on target.
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tovlo4801
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It sounds like there are a few people who would like to discuss this encyclical. Yay! I gain so much additional insight from working things out with others. Especially when the others are such smart people. 
I don't know how this should be organized. I'm inclined to say let's just read and comment as the mood strikes us. If anyone would prefer sectioning up the document and discussing it that way let me know. That would be easy enough too.
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cathhomeschool
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| I'd have to admit to being someone who would find this whole journey so much easier if God would just burn some plans on a holy tablet to follow. |
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Richelle, at least 4 or 5 times I've started a post addressing this, as it seems to be a theme that you've brought up in other threads. Unfortunately, I never got around to posting my thoughts, but I did save some of them...I am not as eloquent writer as many on this board, but hopefully you can make sense of what I've written below!
I can sympathize with the desire to have someone (especially the Church) say, "This is the way to educate your children, and here’s the objective standard or knowledge base that everyone should strive to achieve." This, on the surface, would seem to be such a freeing statement. No longer would we have to pick and choose curriculum and methods. No longer would we have to discern what was right for our families -- We'd have the answers! We’re often so uncomfortable with the idea of the unknown future, and the possibility of “missing something” or “messing up” homeschooling. We want to *know* -- in advance – that we’re doing it right! The reality is that no one but God truly knows what is best for your children, and He has given you and your husband the graces to discern more than anyone else on earth, what that “best” is. The Church cannot possibly tell us that homeschooling is right or wrong, or that particular knowledge (I am speaking of book knowledge here, not knowledge of God, right and wrong, etc) is essential to the eternal happiness of our children. These are details, and I believe that God is truly above all that. What matters eternally? The virtues, beatitudes, love of neighbor and becoming a saint, *being* like Christ – following Him. Our children can *be* these things whether we homeschool or not. These qualities are present in people from every country, time in history and walk of life. God created each of us for a specific purpose (to know, love and serve Him in a specific way), and in my opinion, our children will have received an “excellent education” if when they leave my care they have the tools they need to continue seeking and following their specific calling in life. If they’ve gained more knowledge than that, great! It’s wonderful to exercise our minds by pondering new ideas and to constantly discover new and exciting things about God's creations. I hope and pray that my children will always have a thirst for knowledge and a love of learning. However, I see that “extra” stuff as icing on the cake. It is not essential, so I shouldn’t stress about it, but it’s certainly nice to have, so it should be encouraged.
As to specific teaching methods, again, since no two children are alike or have the same exact calling, and no two teachers are alike, the Church cannot tell us what method is "best." "Best" is determined by the individual child's strengths, weaknesses and personality coupled with those of the teacher, AND by the particular season in life. What was "best" for Willa's family while Aidan was in the hospital may not be what is "best" for them now. Sometimes we need more structure, sometimes less.
So while on the surface it may seem more freeing to be told what to do and how to do it, it would really be a prison. That "chosen" method and content might be perfect for one of your children, but what about the others? What about for you? I think that in order for the Church to give us such specific direction, she would have to ignore the child as a unique individual created by God. Part of the beauty in God's creation is that we are all so different. Fortunately we have many tools and resources available to help in the education of our children. This variety is a blessing as it helps us tailor our "school" to meet our children's needs. Yes, it's a struggle and we may never know if we took the "best" route, but that's our road. Surely there will always be something that we could have done better, because we are human and imperfect. But struggling through the decisions and praying along the way for guidance and discernment is part of our current calling in life as homeschooling moms. It is part of the road that will lead us to holiness. I believe with all my heart that I am currently called to homeschool my children. And I also believe with all my heart that God will not lead me astray if I turn to Him for guidance and help. He honors our prayers when we turn to Him in abandon and seek nothing more than to follow His Will.
Personally, I believe that those who say that following Charlotte Mason is anti-Catholic (or "following" most any other philosophy or curriculum is anti-Catholic) are either mis-informed or narrow-minded. As Gwen and Willa both mentioned, we can and do adapt and expand others' curriculums and philosophies to make them Catholic. That, too, is part of the beauty of being Catholic. We have the freedom to see the good, the beautiful, and the Truth around us. We can benefit from these and set aside the rest.
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Karen T
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cathhomeschool wrote:
So while on the surface it may seem more freeing to be told what to do and how to do it, it would really be a prison. That "chosen" method and content might be perfect for one of your children, but what about the others? What about for you? I think that in order for the Church to give us such specific direction, she would have to ignore the child as a unique individual created by God. |
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Remember, this is what public (and many, if not most, private) schools do. Everyone gets the same thing, taught the same way at the same time.
My oldest son was in public school through the 5th grade. We've hs-ed for one year now, and will be starting the second soon. With all the ups and downs and frustrations we've had this year, I can honestly, without doubt, say that he is learning more, not just in academics, but ABOUT HIMSELF (as I am), and is "freer" in that sense. In public school, he was even in the "gifted" program, but it catered specifically to one type of giftedness, math/reasoning aka geekiness! yet the reason he'd been referred for the program was that he was a gifted creative writer!! But the program, which involved an entire day per week, never had them write anything, and it actually took him away from valuable reading/writing time in the regular classroom. But that's a one-size-fits-all program which purports to be looking at individuals.
Karen T
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Willa
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cathhomeschool wrote:
I think that in order for the Church to give us such specific direction, she would have to ignore the child as a unique individual created by God. Part of the beauty in God's creation is that we are all so different. Fortunately we have many tools and resources available to help in the education of our ...And I also believe with all my heart that God will not lead me astray if I turn to Him for guidance and help. He honors our prayers when we turn to Him in abandon and seek nothing more than to follow His Will.
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Great post, Janette!
It's true and a good point that we have unprecedented access to educational tools that former generations did not have. In fact, as homeschoolers, many of us we have access to tools that most schools do not have and definitely as parents we have access to supernatural graces that schoolteachers do not have.
Up till recently this was not so. In fact there has probably never been a time when the average parent is quite likely to be as educated and resourceful as the average schoolteacher. Even if we didn't get college degrees, there are so many learning opportunities out there, and so many of those with college degrees are not exactly "educated" because of that.
I'm not knocking educational degrees or college degrees in general here -- but as Divini says, education must be permeated with Christian piety to be worthy of the name "education". In today's world, an education degree all too often means a thorough training in secular thinking.
I realize that the SEdes Sapientaie folks are not opposed to homeschooling or to the primary rights and duties of parents. But I do have a hard time understanding what their point actually IS.
There are NO educational methods specifically mentioned in the encyclical, that I could find at least. The closest is that passage that we've all probably read:
"..Hence every form of pedagogic naturalism which in any way excludes or weakens supernatural Christian formation in the teaching of youth, is false. Every method of education founded, wholly or in part, on the denial or forgetfulness of original sin and of grace, and relying on the sole powers of human nature, is unsound. Such, generally speaking, are those modern systems bearing various names which appeal to a pretended self-government and unrestrained freedom on the part of the child, and which diminish or even suppress the teacher's authority and action, attributing to the child an exclusive primacy of initiative, and an activity independent of any higher law, natural or divine, in the work of his education."
Now what would those "modern systems" be? That's probably the key issue as far as the Sedes Sapientae web site goes. But I don't know if they've managed to show that narration, nature study, living books and short lessons are somehow "diminishing the teacher's authority and action" and "attributing to the child an exclusive primacy of initiative."
Is there anything in particular that bothers you about CM in relation to the encyclical, Richelle (or anyone else?)
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Willa
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tovlo4801
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cathhomeschool wrote:
Richelle, at least 4 or 5 times I've started a post addressing this, as it seems to be a theme that you've brought up in other threads. Unfortunately, I never got around to posting my thoughts, but I did save some of them...I am not as eloquent writer as many on this board, but hopefully you can make sense of what I've written below! |
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I am so glad you wrote! There was so much in your post that makes sense. You are quite able say beautiful things in your writing and I am very thankful for the things you said. I'm going to go very off-topic in answering your post, but I really wanted to answer your thoughtful words. I have to tell you that I feel very special that your heart was moved enough to give so much thought to my struggles. Thank you!
I still worry, but I'm not sure my worry can be reasoned away. I sure wish it could! I just finished reading CM's writing about reason and how we must be the master of reason. She talked about how any position can be well reasoned out - even positions headed down the wrong path. I search for support for homeschooling that is so solid I can have no doubt the path is correct. Unfortunately, even the best arguments leave me with still a little squishyness underneath me. In my attempts to turn my thoughts away from that squishyness under my feet, I'm left clinging to these wonderful arguments and my strong inclination to pursue this path.
I struggle with questions of discernment. How can I be sure my discernment is authentically God-directed and not just sinfulness pulling me toward something that feels less right, but might not actually be the correct direction? Often what is best for us is not what "feels" right.
I search for that solid answer to the questions of homeschooling so that I can mentally stand up against arguments to the contrary. I want to be obedient to authority, but I struggle to know what authority would be sufficient to turn me from this course. Is it enough for a well-stated argument from a faithful Catholic I admire and trust quoting encylicals and church documents that I don't know nearly well enough to turn me from this path? I've certainly heard those arguments. I've rejected them, but I'm uncertain about that choice.
Is it enough if your parish priest condemns your choice? I haven't faced this, but others in our parish had to face this objection with our previous pastor and stayed the course. Were they being disobedient to God's will conveyed through his priests?
What if the bishop condemns it? Would it still be OK to stay the course? All these questions are up in the air for me. I could certainly hear wonderfully reasoned arguments on both sides of all of these questions, but as best I can tell these are uncertain situations with no definitively clear answer. Now if there was infallable teaching from the pope! (In other words God writing plans on a holy tablet. ) There would be my answer.
The thing I'm coming to terms with is that I presently live in that world of uncertainty. I am asked to pray about a path, discern where I believe God is calling me, and then move forward despite worries and resistance. I need to turn my focus away from searching for solid unquestionable support from the Church for my path, and to focus on the current lack of solid condemnation for my path. In the absence of that condemnation, I have to trust that my prayer and discernment have been good and move forward.
I think a lot of my concerns here have to do with a spiritual issue rather than a homeschooling one. You said:
cathhomeschool wrote:
| He honors our prayers when we turn to Him in abandon and seek nothing more than to follow His Will. |
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I trust in God. I'm not certain I trust in myself. I believe that God can do anything, but one thing He chose to do was give me free will. I don't trust myself with free will. I am constantly afraid that my abandonment is not complete and that I often, despite my best intentions, seek much more than to simply follow His Will. I am so afraid that my discernment is damaged because of my own selfish desires. How can we ever really know if we are on the path God wants us on or if we've created our own path out of our own selfish desires?
I was thinking about your post yesterday morning on my jog and the lyrics of my favorite Christian musician really struck me.
Should I Tell Them
words and music by Shaun Groves
Walking with You is not without hazards/Tripping's this traveler's curse/The price paid for falling is more than my stumble ..../But I listened when you said to go/And I set out in spite of my fears/I brought truth mixed with my imperfections ....../....what if I'm failing them? ..../.....do You speak through the imperfect/Or are we too dirty for Your light to get through/I want You're light to get through ..../....Come and meet me here in this place/'Cause I'm unprepared/And I'm just plain afraid
I'm afraid of the cost of my stumble to my children. I'm unprepared. I'm desperately afraid that my sinfulness leaves me too dirty for God's grace to get through.
These are spiritual issues and not really issues arguments for or against homeschooling can solve.
I am so appreciative for this forum and for all of the wise women who visit here. I look to all of you for guidance and support which you so generously share on a regular basis.
Unfortunately I have also looked to you to present those infallible arguments that I seek. There is another song by the same artist that speaks about a friend simply asking too much of him. He speaks of being happy to give his two cents, his prayers and his time, but he cautions the advice seeker that there are just some things that his two cents cannot buy. Is he richer than her king?
As valuable as all of your two cents are, I've asked you to make them into a fortune that only God possesses. Forgive me and please pray for me that I can somehow find peace with the spiritual issues that flow beneath all this seeking.
p.s. I sure hope you will all still be willing to share your two cents as I continue to seek! I promise to work hard not to overvalue them.
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tovlo4801
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Willa,
You snuck in while I was agonizing about my other post.
WJFR wrote:
Now what would those "modern systems" be? That's probably the key issue as far as the Sedes Sapientae web site goes. But I don't know if they've managed to show that narration, nature study, living books and short lessons are somehow "diminishing the teacher's authority and action" and "attributing to the child an exclusive primacy of initiative."
Is there anything in particular that bothers you about CM in relation to the encyclical, Richelle (or anyone else?)
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Everything about CM seems very right! I'm just beginning to read the encyclical, but what I'm reading doesn't seem to condemn CM at all. I haven't gotten very far yet though. I can see from the quote you posted that Gwen's comment about unschooling and CM in relation to the encyclical might be two seperate discussions. I think unschooling might run closer to meeting those criteria quoted?
I would say the only thing that concerns me is my own ignorance - my own lack of solidness of this path. I strongly believe it's right and good for all the reasons Janette and others have stated. Yet there's that squishyness - that little bit of "what if I'm wrong?" So when I see arguments against my chosen path quoting encyclicals I don't know well or at all, I wonder if there is truly something out there that would turn me from my path if I only truly understood things properly.
I'm very curious to hear what others have to say on this point. I've been slowly reading and marking sections of interest but I'm hesitant to comment without having the full context of the document. I might just go ahead anyway, but I will definitely be following what everyone else has to say until I'm ready to jump in.
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KayMS
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Just so you all know, because no one will ask me personally but choose rather to take stabbing guesses about my person, I, the author of the Sedes Sapientiae web site, am NOT a sedevacantist. Neither am I an SSPX Catholic or independent or CMRI or any number of other off beat traditionalist Catholic. I have never once said ANYTHING negative on my site about our beautiful Faith, our Holy Mother Church, or our glorious popes (unlike Miss Mason and her anti-Catholic papal remarks), yet Miss Mason receives rave support from Catholics, while Catholics bash my writings as sedevacantist. If you read very much else of my web site, such as my article on Deut. 22:5, or noticed my months long information on Pope Benedict XVI, you could have easily deduced that I was no extreme traditionalist of any sort!!! Protestants (including Mason) are the original "sedevacantists," if you haven't noticed already. Go right ahead and read the writings of "sedevacantists" in your search for truth. My articles are unsigned because I did not write them to gain a following or sell a book. Obviously, I see it makes it rather easy for people to eventually take pot shots at my person, a living soul in Christ's True Church, never once entertaining the thought of clicking the email link found on every page of my web site - if anyone ever really cared to know who the mysterious author of that site was!! Also, the documents of the Church prior to Vatican II ARE the tools of the Church, including those that came after. I do not see where Miss Mason uses ANY tool of the Church, yet she is found to be imbued with "truth" while my referencing of pre-Vatican II Church materials (little known to some Catholics which is why I use them) receives a holy tablet crack. Finally, there are a significant number of links on my site on where to find information on Catholic methods of education, Catholic philosophies of education, and Catholic materials - for that person who said I never mention examples in my articles (which is true, I did not mention them there). Yes, you can find truth elsewhere and Catholicize it if you want and you will find that the encyclicals do "allow" for this, but those same encyclicals do not say that doing this is the best way. The entire reason Catholics have to "Catholicize" Mason is because she was exclusive of Catholicism. I see that it is fine in the eyes of Catholics to mimic the ideologies of a person who was anti-pope, exclusive of all that was Catholic, but it is narrow minded to be pro-Pope, exclusive of that which was against Catholicism. There is enough Truth in the Church for those who want to cloister themselves in it, exclusive of all else - in fact, all Truth is revealed through it - nothing else IS needed! But OH, what a beautiful Church we have that allows people, in our human failings, to grow in love, truth and faith always encouraging us toward higher levels, to strive toward perfection and possibly achieve a small piece of heaven on earth!
Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum,
K.M.S.
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Willa
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| Posted: July 14 2005 at 8:07am | IP Logged
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Richelle and all,
Just to let you know that I'm not dropping the discussion -- leaving today (right now!) for camping trip and will be back Tuesday or Wednesday. I hope to resume when time provides -- the encyclical is really beautiful.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 14 2005 at 8:33am | IP Logged
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KayMS wrote:
| I, the author of the Sedes Sapientiae web site, am NOT a sedevacantist. Neither am I an SSPX Catholic or independent or CMRI or any number of other off beat traditionalist Catholic. |
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Welcome, Kay! As I was the one questioning whether you were in line with the Pope, I will humbly apologize. I just found many links to sites that promote this way of thinking. (And where is the material on Benedict XVI you refer to? I couldn't find it. And I found no evidence of anything after Vatican II. I'm not saying that having materials written before Vat II are defunct and not applicable, but the Church has an unbroken line of popes and teaching...and Vatican II, Catholic Catechism, encyclicals after 1965 are all applicable and highly relevant and usually build up on pre-Vat II teachings, also.
I haven't been following this thread too closely, so I might repeat something already said. But if you are truly following the Catholic tradition, our Church has the lovely tradition of being open. Nothing is presumed evil until first examined. New ideas are examined, the bad is eschewed and the good is adopted and baptized. If you read any of Father Weiser's books which examine Catholic Feast and Customs, he shows how extensively we have "baptized" customs into our faith.
Anyway, I'll let the more informed about CM and the encyclical speak up on this issue. I just wanted to apologize if I offended...I don't want this thread to deteriorate into something ugly.
God bless!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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momwise
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| Posted: July 14 2005 at 8:36am | IP Logged
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Dear Kay,
Thank you so much for coming here. You are correct, after looking around your website I found so much that was helpful and everything was fully Catholic. I can appreciate that you don't want to sign your articles but when finding writings in cyberspace it is helpful to know who is writing and why. For anything that was rash or hurtful to you I apologize, because I believe that we as the Body of Christ have the ability and the duty to discuss and disagree in charity.
Anyone who maintains a website, especially one with strong opinions must know that those who disagree will most likely print and/or discuss their thoughts. If you wanted to provoke deeper thought and consideration of the encyclical you wrote about, then you have achieved that end.
As you already know, parents, with the help of the Holy Spirit and the advice of the Church, are the primary educators of their children. The vast majority of Catholic parents send their children to public, government schools which are (with the exception of a smattering of truly holy, devoted teachers)dedicated to the promotion of atheism. Those who follow a Catholic CM philosophy have not only dedicated themselves to educating for Truth, they have correctly discerned that this education must be permeated with all things Catholic. That is why they have thoughtfully chosen what was good about Mason's school day and left the rest.
There is nothing in Church teachings that forbids us to do this. That's why Laura Berquist can use C.S. Lewis's book Mere Christianity to teach religious truth to 8th graders: because although Lewis refused throughout his life to place himself under the authority of the Pope, he wrote many things that were full of truth.
We are using parts of an educational method that as far as I can discern do not contain any activities contrary to our Faith. Just as those who use only textbooks and tests do not subscribe to all the same beliefs as Bob Jones (who uses textbooks and tests as educational methods), those who use dicatation, short class periods, nature study, handiwork and good literature do not need to agree with all of CM's religious opinions. Catholics have always been free to apply what is fruitful (provided it is not contrary to Scripture or Magesterium) and leave the chaff. I do not disregard anything written before Vatican II which is why I am interested in reading the encyclical with Richelle and applying it to my family.
Nevertheless, if I were to find that I agreed with your assessment and I left this group and anything associated with CM, I still fail to see how my daily teaching methods would have to change. You said in your post that you fail to see ANY Catholic elements in CM's schools. Technically this is correct. However you will find many elements that are not opposed to Catholicism. For instance, extensive time outdoors and nature study are thouroughly wholesome activities that Catholics can use to foster adoration for the Trinity and respect for Creation. This is why I was disappointed by the lack of examples in the article; I can't see how it applies to narration, dictation, shorter class periods, etc.
I appreciate the work you've put into a very useful website. Thanks again for your post.
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Divini Illius Magistri/real catholic educ
