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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 14 2007 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
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Okay, moms of boys who are, um, "spirited" . . . you know, jump before they think (usually from really high places), full of great ideas but won't stop to listen to you when you tell them that they might not be the best idea (b/c something might explode, for instance), only get themselves into deeper trouble when they're in trouble with you, don't stop from the moment they wake up until they finally crash at the end of the day (b/c they've always refused to take a nap!) . . . . 
What's your advice? Lets say your little fireball actually survived himself (and you actually made it through with most of your wits and a box of hair dye for all those greys). Looking back, what kind of advice would you give us moms with a five year old who has a will of iron (directly opposed to yours, quite often), courage of a crusader, and the most miscevious little smile that absoultely melts your heart?
More hugs than timeouts? More structure to keep him on track? Peanut butter sandwiches on Tuesdays to keep him stuck in one place at least once a week??
Thanks so much for any ideas!! 
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Anne
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Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
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Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 14 2007 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
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LOTS of hard physcal "work".. in the form of games/play is fine but when mine can't settle I'll send them for a run (around the house, down the block, whatever works).. important "man" jobs help, take the time to do a lot of supervising while they get the hang of it but starting them on the work helps.
Pick your battles carefully and if you choose the battle.. win it.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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MichelleW
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What we want is their hearts.
When their attitudes begin to get bad, my dh says, "Sounds like they need more work!" And puts them to work doing very physical labor. The change in them is always astonishing. They take so much pride in a job well done. Dh is so good at communicating his love and approval. He will have them haul wood, thrwo hay, chop firewood, feed animals, shovel snow, etc. Anything that uses the big muscles and gets them tuckered out.
During the day, a trampoline has helped us. I send them out to jump on it for "recess."
Honestly, I think the most imnportant thing I have done is change MY attitude. Sometimes they are at their most creative when they are making the biggest messes. I have had to take a deep breath, put on a smile and say, "Wow. Tell me about your project." I have also learned that it is ok to require they clean it up. Of course they need help, but it always makes me feel better to have them alongside me while we are, literally, picking up the pieces.
Also, a required quiet time is not unreasonable, even for your most active boy. Separate them (they feed off of each other) and you can require 30-60 minutes of down time for everyone's sake.
Oh, and I know this may sound trite, but prayer is amazing. Lots of prayer. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide your interactions with them before the day starts.
With my boys, I introduced knights and kings when they were about your son's age. Then, during Mass, I'd have them count how many times the priest honored Christ as King, how many times we honor Christ as King, how many ways can they find where we behave as knights, etc. It kept them busy (on and off) for months.
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Michelle
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msclavel
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| Posted: Jan 15 2007 at 5:13am | IP Logged
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I only have one boy in the middle of a whole lot of girls. He tends on the quiet side. But I have noticed there are those moments he has to move, so he goes outside at least once every day.
My friend has 2 very spirited boys and she swears by her trampoline. She says she just sends them out to jump when they can't seem to control themselves. All they need is a few minutes. She is also very patient and takes many things in stride. She grew up with 6 brothers so nothing her boys do has ever surprised her  . That said, she has high expectations, especially with how they treat other adults. She has always been clear and open with me about how they are expected to behave in my presence as she wants to be very consistent.
Her older son just turned 13 and I can already see the fruit as he is polite and funny, talks easily with adults, is caring towards younger children, and loved by his peers for his outgoing personality. He is confident in himself and his opinions. And becoming a devoted Catholic, wanting to grow into adulthood and live out a Catholic life (he tells his mother he just hopes to find the right Catholic woman ready to have at least 8 children).
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Servant2theKing
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Try to look beyond "Boysterous" behavior, which can be very difficult for moms to understand, since we're wired so differently. Recognize their NEED for physical outlet and find useful, creative ways to channel that energy into something positive and productive...as already mentioned, plenty of chores and exercise are very helpful, as is prayer.
Pets are another great outlet for busy boys...we have gotten two large dogs over the past year and our boys spend a great deal of time tussling around with their "Buddies", whose fine Narnian and Tolkien names often give way to more all-inclusive titles, such as "The Dudes". Dogs are wonderful companions for boys. Getting our dogs was one of the best decisions we've ever made.
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saintanneshs
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I hear you, Anne!
With 3 young boys of my own, I know exactly what you're dealing with. You don't want to break their spirits, just tame them a bit, right? The advice you've been given sounds great to me! We're using work jobs and lots of physical energy outlets these days. Ds5 even got a mini-trampoline for Christmas and we're keeping it in the basement for those winter days when it's just too frigid to get outside.
I wish I could give advice, but we're right there with ya! I just remember to keep telling myself that these spirits of theirs will come in handy when God puts them to work.
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Becky Parker
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I have 3 active boys Anne, but one I'd call "spirited". He really makes the others seem "calm"! (He's my little guy that really did jump out a window and almost rolled down the hill into the river!) I think you've been given wonderful advice already and I don't have much to add except remember they need help quieting themselves sometimes. I have to tell my oldest son over and over, things like "don't start wrestling with Daniel just before dinner. When it's time to sit down and eat with some manners you are able to do that but he just can't settle down enough to do so." We're learning. My dh still doesn't remember all the time that the pre-bedtime rough-housing is a bad idea. When he forgets I tell him he can take care of getting Daniel to sleep. No easy task!
Also, I had the same experience as Michelle above who talks about changing her attitude. For a while I only saw what was driving me crazy about this little guy. This was not good for our relationship, or his self esteem. He was getting worse and worse. I realized (Thank God!) that I had to see him for the gift he truly was. What an amazing little boy I have. So sensitive and loving, so full of imagination, so honest about everything! He's truly a blessing. His behavior improved greatly when I changed my attitude. (I'm not saying you need to do this - just sharing my experience.) One other thing, when it comes to school work I use some Montessori type materials. They are quite calming for him. Even building with legos or wedgits is great for calming these guys down a little!
Blessings!
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Jan 15 2007 at 6:51am | IP Logged
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I just re-read your post Anne. I guess I don't qualify as someone who has already raised one of these kids. I'm in the trenches with you...although I do have some gray hair ! One other thing that has helped us during Mass or any other "sit still for a long period of time" type thing is having a special notebook and pencil with us. When Daniel is just too squirrely at Mass I let him quietly draw in this notebook. If nothing else it helps him to be quiet so he's not a distraction to those around us. Oh, and yes to the structure. Our days go so much better when we follow our routine and Daniel knows what's coming.
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onemoretracy
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| Posted: Jan 15 2007 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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Becky, we have this issue at my house too!
"My dh still doesn't remember all the time that the pre-bedtime rough-housing is a bad idea. When he forgets I tell him he can take care of getting Daniel to sleep. No easy task!"
I have them run around the cul-de-sac to get out energy, rake leaves...that does help.
I see the issue as helping them understand appropriate timing. It's not that I really mind roughhousing, it's that it is not appropritae to roughhouse right befor bed, or dinner or when we're getting ready for mass etc.. 
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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 24 2007 at 8:45am | IP Logged
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These have all been so helpful, thank you ladies!!
I'm having a bit of a problem with the chores, however. When I ask for his help, he doesn't listen to direction, and just runs off and does it his way, making a bigger mess than what we had. Then I get mad b/c he's not following directions, and as a defense mechanism, he starts laughing, which really gets my gord. 
Urgh.
Maybe I should have put this under "We pray to the Lord."
Lord, help me to endure my blessings . .. 
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Anne
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Maryan
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I'm not looking back from experience -- but in the same boat as you Anne, although I have four spirited, physical boys.
My husband who came from 7 boys has all the good ideas for getting their attention. He totally does the work thing (like others have mentioned and always gets a good response)
He also has 5 yo and 3 1/2 yo do push ups for when they don't listen, whine, or act like a poor sport. (He's not a Marine, though!) They do their age in push ups. There's always a good response and not a rebellious or beaten down response. I guess because they feel like they're getting big, strong and manly while doing a push up??? I'm not sure why it works.
On a side note - for school, we do a continous cycle of physical activity, followed by cuddle time with a book, etc. and many snack times since they're getting a lot of exercise!
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Maryan
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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 24 2007 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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hmmm, baby boot camp . . . I like this . .
I had a bad run this morning when I wrote the last post, and once again, when I turned myself around, it helped him.
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Anne
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JodieLyn
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Maryan I was thinking of doing that very thing.. with pushups and other things that could be done indoors or really.. anywhere. Can just see us in the middle of the grocery store having 1 or more doing pushups can't you?
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Maryan
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Oh Jodie -- you're giving me a good chuckle!
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
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MacBeth
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Anne, is this the 5yo? Maybe he just needs way simpler chores, ones with only one or two steps, but that demand his physical concentration rather than mental ordering.
In any case, with my guys it has always been about making their work meaningful. Without real purpose, like "busywork" at school, his labors will seem worthless..
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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 24 2007 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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MacBeth,
Well, he was helping me clear the table after breakfast. I wanted him to put the half eaten container of yougurt in the fridge, but first he had to take the spoon out and hand it to me. I couldn't get him to stop running past me to the fridge, and when the spoon part finally registered in his little brain, it came whipping out toward the sink, with yougurt all over the floor. Its something we're having a lot of trouble with, with him-- stop and listen. When dh or I say "we need you to do x, but first listen to how we want you to do it," he's usually off doing x his own way, breaking something or making a huge mess. I can understand the idea of letting him find the different ways from point a to point b that are unique to him, but he can't always do it his way, and sometimes, he just has to learn that there is a "right" way to do some things.
On the upside, while I was changing dd's diaper this morning, he took it upon himself to "clean" the little bathroom with windex, a clorox wand and a hand towel. Believe me, lots of hugs and kisses for a job well done with that!
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Anne
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 24 2007 at 3:16pm | IP Logged
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With that age you often need to ONLY tell them the first step.. not tell them the job and then tell them the first step.
With this example. First tell him "Carefully take the spoon from the yogurt and hand it to me." then you can say "now you can take it and put it in the fridge"..
Lots of kids this age can't handle multiple directions.. they need to do the first one and then listen to and do the second one..
The cool thing here is.. look at how quickly he's responding to your directions to do something. You said to put the yogurt in the fridge and he did just that and wasn't going to be distracted from the task.. both VERY good things 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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ALmom
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One thing that helps them learn to pay more attention is to then hand them the rag - and calmly and sweetly, very matter of fact address the new chore that has just been created. Oh dear, since we didn't take the spoon out, there is mess on the floor. We need to clean it up - then you clean up together. If the mop is too big to handle - an old rag will do.
In our house the rule is that if you make the mess, you clean it up - so boys who forget to take off muddy shoes use an old rag, etc. Now at younger ages, I do help alongside. I also try to make sure we have calm periods prior to need for real mental attention. Also, it helps to phrase things in order. Ie - please hand me the spoon. Now, please take the yogurt to the fridge. If you say, "Please take the yogurt to the fridge after handing me the spoon", they really don't hear the last half of the request and are thinking they are being so helpful to do the job quickly. To these little men - quickly, bigger, etc. is better. How many times have your boys complimented you by telling you how big you are sometimes even using the word fat only to be bemused when mom somehow doesn't look proud!
They think in such funny terms to us. We have lots of messes on the way to the sink - but the process is more important so we overlook the difficulties if the attempt is being made. Our 4 yo helps clear the table - at our house everyone is supposed to clear their own dishes. When his plate still has food on it, I cringe inside knowing that some of it will land on the floor when he tries to carry plate, cup and silverware all at once. But we can cheerfully, say, "oops, lets get a rag." He is slowly learning the consequences of his actions and eventually modifies things to his own strength and coordination. Obviously, I may at times, slide things into some other serving dish so there isn't so much on his plate (as in spaghetti) but if he insists, I'll let him carry it with the caveat that he must clean up if there is a spill. When our boys are bouncing balls while dh, the girls and I are all finishing dinner, my dh makes use of this and sends them with items, one at a time back to the fridge, to the trash, etc. The 4 yo is so proud to be included in this ritual - even imitating the expressions of older siblings (good or bad). He is also a bit of an imp and his smile can make us laugh when we shouldn't. He has learned quickly when and what he can get away with so consistentcy is really important.
They are really a joy when you can just let the minor things go (not disobedience or rudeness or dangerous things of course). When he was little and always wanted to climb up the stairs, I really tried to just let him and make it safe by having an older sibling or myself follow him up. I try not to say, No unless I really have to. We so enjoy his antics now - but do not tolerate certain things.
His latest : we had been discussing covering our face with our hands when we sneeze so others don't get sick. Since we had colds, this seemed like appropriate timing. On the way home, the 4 yo sneezed without covering his face. Of course this was not disobedience but simple forgetfulness. We gave him a reminder and his response was - "Oh but I didn't have any shrapenel!"
Now, who could help but laugh at that. He was grinning from ear to ear. Still, "shrapenel or no shrapenel", we cover our face. We reminded him of this and went on. No defiance here, though he now uses the term shrapenel to refer to the results of a sneeze since it elicited so much laughter from the crowd. However, when he stomps his foot and demands something, we simply tell him we don't respond to that and all of us insist that he ask nicely. He can be quite stubborn and we do have to be calmly persevering (sometimes having to let him know that he cannot disturb the whole household and we will all go to the other room for the book if he cannot calm down and ask nicely.
So much depends on being calm and consistent. The physical activity, of course, helps to channel the energy and all the advice above is very good. Sometimes these very active boys can be stifled by mom fear. I try to relax about a lot of physical exploration. If the boys are flying down the driveway on their bikes, I don't stop it (our boys actually ride down the stairs and then the driveway). They may get banged up - but as long as it is not life-threatening, I try not to interfere. All of ours climb ladders into the attic with dad and other such things. My 4 yo generally tries to jump the last 4 stairs. He might break a bone - but probably nothing worse, so I usually don't say much unless I express - "wow, but you know that sure scares mom." I did stop the head downward on the sofa cusions along the handrail from the top to bottom of our stairs. I also made them take down a swing that was way high - from a tree hanging over the side of a cliff, especially after 4 yo tried to push 11 yo off and ended up with an entirely swollen side of the face, but fortunately no serious damage. It just looked bad for months. I didn't see the swing until after the injury - and thanked the guardian angels. Yes, that is one thing - do pray to their guardian angels daily! It is all a delicate balance - but the more we let them test their mettle, the calmer they seem to become.
Janet
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Topic: If I knew then what I know now ...
