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kathleenmom
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| Posted: July 02 2006 at 10:23pm | IP Logged
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I'm hoping some veteran moms might be able to give me some advice. I am newly pregnant with Blessing #5. I am nearly 9 weeks and my milk supply has taken a drastic dive. My current baby is 13 months and still an avid nursling. I have nursed through other pregnancies and even tandem nursed for a year. However, this time it is different. This is the earliest I have been pregnant with another baby in tow and Jack is having trouble with the decreased milk supply. I nurse on demand and through the night. The past week or so, he has been waking multiple times...sometimes with as little as 10 minutes in between. He's fretful and unhappy.
In the past, when the night nursing became too great a burden while pregnant, I night weaned a couple of my children. They were older than Jack and I could explain it to them. They weren't verbal, but they could still understand what mommy was saying. This little fellow is too young. The last few nights I've just rolled around in the bed with him and we've made each other miserable.
I've tried to make sure he is eating more, but he is still mostly a grazer. He has never taken a bottle and he doesn't like cow's milk. I've tried bringing a sippy cup to bed with water, but he smacks it away in disgust.
Any suggestions?
Kathleen
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: July 02 2006 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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No suggestions, Kathleen, but praying for your little Jack. this is a bit of a rough spot for him...
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Noreen
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Dawnie
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 1:54pm | IP Logged
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Kathleen,
Are you wanting suggestions for increasing milk supply or for weaning?
Dawn
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kathleenmom
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 6:32pm | IP Logged
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Dawnie,
I'm sorry. I seem to be a little short of brain power these days....did I mention that the kitchen floor with all of the crumbs looks pretty cozy and inviting right about now? Yawn.
I'm looking more for ideas about how to transition such a young baby (for me) from breast to other forms of comforting at night time. I'm looking for ways to comfort him at night since he can't really understand the speech I've given other children about mommy being very tired and we'll be reserving nursing for the daytime from now on. I would pat them and offer them sips from a cup during the night and snuggle some. We have a family bed. These things worked when the children were a bit older. Jack is just frustrated pure and simple. I wish I could meet his needs in the way he's used to (nursing on demand at night), but since my milk supply has dropped, he's waking every hour or less. I can't keep this pace up and be an effective parent to the other children during the day.
I don't believe there is any way to augment milk supply at this stage of our nursing relationship. My milk supply has dropped because my body is using the resources it was using for making Jack's milk for other building projects 
So, if anyone has any ideas for what to do with an unhappy little man used to nursing at night, please come to his rescue.
Kathleen
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
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Kathleen,
I don't have a whole lot of helpful advice. I had to wean Michael when I started chemotherapy. He was twenty months so the experience doesn't really do much for you, BUT...
I was so desperate that I offered him drinks in a sippy cup during the night. HUGE mistake  . This child has absolutley terrible teeth and several dentists have all concurred that it was my desperate measure that caused damage even to his permanent teeth. He's got giant dental phobias (with good cause) and I still feel gulity. We did what we could do to cope during a really trying time but I definitely wouldn't encourage someone else to do it.
If you have to wean, it might take a whole lot daddy, rocking and singing for more than a couple of days... 
I'm sorry for you and Jack (and his daddy too), but I am tickled to hear of the new baby!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Dawnie
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Kathleen,
It's a tough situation. I've been nursing a toddler at the start of each of the past 3 pregnancies. All things being equal, I've found that it's easier to wean an older toddler (one that's over 2). The little ones just don't understand why their favorite form of comfort is gone (or going).
I've found night weaning to be tough, no matter what I try. It was easiest w/ my 2nd dd b/c she sucked her thumb. She had a built in substitute. It's been a lot harder w/ the toddler I'm trying to wean now. She is 2. She has accepted the fact that she doesn't get to nurse at night anymore, but there were a lot of tears before she would accept any other form of comforting. It's hard for me to see my little ones cry, but I try to tell myself that I am TRYING to comfort them, it's just not in the way they have been used to.
For night weaning, I have found that having the baby sleep in a different bed sometimes helps. Mine wake up less when they sleep by themselves in a bed away from me. We have been playing "musical beds" a lot lately.  Could you put him to sleep in your bed and go sleep somewhere else yourself? Is there a mattress you could put on the floor next to your bed? Could Daddy put him to sleep?
Since your baby is only a little over a year, have you considered a pacifier?
Also, you might check out the book "How Weaning Happens." Most La Leche League groups have it in their lending library. It has lots of great suggestions and ideas for weaning a baby. I can't remember if it specifically address night weaning or not...
I'm going through the same thing, only my toddler is older than yours. The one I'm trying to wean now has been my most enthusiastic nurser. It's hard, I know. Elizabeth is right, it may take more than a few days and a lot of tears...
Hang in there! And congratulations on the new little one being formed within you!
Dawn
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 11:13pm | IP Logged
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Kathleen,
I had the same situation when pregnant with my 6th. #5 was only 11 months when I conceived. My milk dried up pretty early in the pregnancy and she was still an on-demand nurser. I have had to wean during all but one pregnancy (not counting #1, of course) because my milk dried up. But the others were all almost 2 so it was a little easier.
She would cry and cry when she tried to nurse. My mother suggested giving her a bottle which I at first rejected. But we got desperate and gave it a try. I would cradle her and hold the bottle in my hand while she nursed. It took a few days, but eventually she started alternating between the bottle and the breast and finally gave up on the breast altogether.
She drank from a bottle until she turned four last December. She did have one little cavity at her first dental appointment. I don't know if I can even blame the bottles though, because my breast-only kids had more cavities than she did. Our dental habits are a little lacking around here. 
Anyway, that is my experience. I know how sad it is when you one that is so little and you know they still need that closeness. Isn't it funny how most of the world thinks that there is something weird about nursing a one year old and we agonize about weaning even when our bodies give us no choice?
Maybe someone can give you advice for increasing your milk suppy. But this could really be your body's way of saving your nutritional resources for your growing baby.
God bless you and your little ones.
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Dawnie
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| Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:05am | IP Logged
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Kathleen,
If you are interested in continuing nursing through the pregnancy, there are a couple of things you could try that might help your milk supply. I was a La Leche League Leader up until about a year ago, and here is what I know:
1. Most women do find that their milk supply decreases and then dries up during pregnancy.
2. Some women who are able to eat an excellent diet are able to maintain an adequate milk supply during pregnancy. This is REALLY hard for most women b/c of morning sickness. You might be able to find more specific information by searching the La Leche League.
HTH...
Dawn
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Sarah
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| Posted: July 04 2006 at 8:08am | IP Logged
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Kathleen-
I've been in this boat. I'll pray for you. DS was 11 months when I became pg and it was really tough. He lost a lot of weight and I felt so GUILTY!
I ended up with the organic whole milk right about when he turned 12 months. He still nursed for comfort (and my discomfort--like fingers on a chalkboard ).
I replaced "tickling" as my nightime comfort for the last two who needed extra mom, but not nursing. Both children accepted it well. Its basically stroking their legs and arms with your fingertips. Some places are just TOO TICKLY--like their backs. Now dd can tolerate her back "tickled" but younger kids can't. Some kids can't stand any tickling at all. DD2 still goes to sleep with "tickle" (kind of a stupid name, actually. Maybe I should have thought of something else).
The other thing I liked about them liking the "tickle" option was than ANYONE could do it--dad, aunts, etc. When I went into the hospital and had to stay several days due to complications, my sister (age 22) thought it was a God send, since ds2 would respond to it for her.
Hang in there. . .it really is a tough time. If you need a shoulder to cry on, keep posting here. I feel for you. God bless,
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StephanieA
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We do the family bed too, and I am trying to wean #7 right now. Her personality would make it very difficult to remove her even though she has slept in with her older sisters once or twice. If I made her, I think she would feel even more rejected than she does now.
My milk dries up too, but this didn't stop my oldest from tandem nursing through my 2nd pregnancy. He finally weaned 6 months after his brother was born.(And yes, that was the HARDEST thing I have ever done emotionally). The rest of the kids gave up nursing (an empty breast)weeks or days before the birth of their sibling. This last pregnancy has made me SO nauteous that I am literally heaving after my daughter latches on for a few minutes. The fact that the milk is gone frustrates her to no end. She has even started throwing tandrems
I had to start very active weaning though it is so hard to see this little one crying. Water in a sippy cup at night and rubbing her back makes her mad. In fact, she throws the cup over the bed and crawls over to the edge of the bed and cries. I pick her up to rub her back and she pulls her shirt back down and stares at me, yelling, "Fafees". So I take her to a rocker and try that. Most times, she doesn't want anything to do with me. My husband has no patience with any of this, so I have to do it myself for his sake and my daughter's.
This weaning is a tough thing to do. I love the concept that the child weans himself, but it has never happened here. My daughter is attached to nursing about as much as her oldest brother. But I just can't do it this time around and I know it. I have no real advice, but I can commiserate with you. If you can stand to have her nurse an empty breast, I would. The other 6 kids were fine with it to a certain extent. It wasn't totally satisfying, but the closeness was maintained. This is what is so hard about weaning this time around. I can seem to reorient her to this closeness minus nursing.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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