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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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If this is not in the right place, please move this. I am NOT wanting to start an argument, because this might be controversial. Two priests that I thought would agree - disagreed in their reasoning. But I really need some thoughts about what to do.
In a nutshell, my Catholic niece is getting married to a non-Catholic at a civil ceremony (although I heard that a protestant preacher may, instead, officiate).
Do the family and I attend the wedding or the reception?
My 2 thoughts:
I am leaning towards not going because:
1. It would leave the impression that what my niece is doing is not right. Basically she is not entering a sacramentally, validly marriage.
2. Gives my children the correct perspective of a Catholic sacramental marriage
I would instead send her a gentle letter and a gift...and then my sister and I would probably be on the outs. I'm not liking that idea at all.
Go to the wedding:
1. Still send a letter afterwards - encouraging the niece to get married in the Church.
2. Going would not ostricize her (and she already feels that the extended family leaves her out of activities - which is not the case) - and this would not harden her to the family or the Church. A friend was initially married outside the Church and after 24 years still has hurt feelings that some family members did not attend. However, she soon brought her husband into the Church and into a sacramental marriage.
So I am thinking there a thoughts to both actions. My gut has a hard time celebrating this marriage though. Gulp. Any thoughts?
Blessings,
Stephanie
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 9:10am | IP Logged
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Hi Stephanie,
Of course, it's a personal decision. Most priests do say it's important to support family, so doors aren't shut. My gut response with just black and white features such as Catholic getting married in civil ceremony, I will not attend.
But since it's a family member, and I presume your sibling's child, it makes it trickier. How close are you with your sibling? your whole family? How close are you with your niece? Does your family already know your feelings on this and just watching to see how you will respond? Are religious issues like this a constant strife?
This isn't a wedding, it's not even a marriage. There is no sacrament. It's just a legal ceremony so they can legally share rights and insurance. 
This scenario:
StephanieA wrote:
Go to the wedding:
1. Still send a letter afterwards - encouraging the niece to get married in the Church.
2. Going would not ostricize her (and she already feels that the extended family leaves her out of activities - which is not the case) - and this would not harden her to the family or the Church. A friend was initially married outside the Church and after 24 years still has hurt feelings that some family members did not attend. However, she soon brought her husband into the Church and into a sacramental marriage.
So I am thinking there a thoughts to both actions. My gut has a hard time celebrating this marriage though. Gulp. Any thoughts?
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Is where I would lean in this situation. You give good reasons why. At least attend the reception. I would share that two of my sister's husbands refused to attend a civil wedding and reception of a niece, and now there is huge bitterness and a rift with the whole family.
But a few more questions.
Does your extended family think you aren't attending because of the situation? Is this is a little test in a way?
Would you be bringing your children? I can't remember their ages, but if they are under 10, I wouldn't want to give them the mixed message of attending a "wedding that isn't."
But the reception, if all the cousins and family are together, it's a big family get-together, so attend the reception.
Now, perhaps it's a little complicated...will the family get mad if you ONLY attend the reception? I'd find ways to get around this. So if your children are little, make excuses that they don't sit well, and you don't want to distract at the ceremony, etc. Maybe they are angels, but in this case, PRETEND. 
It would be much better to reach out to your niece after the wedding without looking "holier than thou" to all your other family the day of the festivities.
Maybe we can brainstorm ways to take your niece under your wing, like some good books to share. I'd give non-too subtle wedding gifts like a Crucifix, maybe a book like "By Love Refined" by Alice Von Hildebrand, and a cookbook like "A Continual Feast".
I'm trying to think of more that would ignite her wanting to get it blessed.
And could a local priest friend have contact with her? He could nurture a relationship to welcome the couple....perhaps she needs only that to bridge to come to the Sacrament of Matrimony.
I'll have to say, I can't IMAGINE how I could operate in the day-to-day in our marriage WITHOUT the graces of the sacrament. I just think it's nigh on impossible to cohabit and be married just on a secular level. It just is so hard!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MaryM
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 9:20am | IP Logged
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Oh, Stephanie, this is so hard. I think we will be facing this soon and with a much closer relative/relationship  .
I've pulled up some old threads where it was discussed as well - you will see like you mentioned, about he two priests not agreeing, that there are people who argue both sides and it is not clear cut.
Should I let my kids be in this wedding?
questions about attending a wedding...
weddings
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cheesehead mom
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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My niece got married outside last summer with a 'minister' (ex-priest to boot) and it was actually my high schooler whose first reaction was "Mom we cannot attend that". My niece made all of her sacraments and is choosing to live outside of the church--cohabitating before marriage and to go would have communicated some acceptance of that particularly to my teens. I did send a cross and note to her months before about how really impossible it is to have a successful marriage without Christ. It was kind and not preachy. We live far away and traveling with 7 kids was probably why most people assumed we did not come--and I did not make a big deal of it. It was personally very hard not to go as I would have loved to see those relatives but I it was the right decision for us. GOd Bless your discerment and consult a good priest.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 10:14am | IP Logged
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My very first thought was.. does she know that she can be married in the church to someone not Catholic?
I tend to err on the side of family unity. Figuring I have a whole lot more time and opportunities to live the faith in front of them, to say things at appropriate times if they're still talking to me.
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jawgee
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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It is just so hard - we've seen this happen so many times.
We've always chose to attend the wedding in hopes of building a bridge back to the Catholic church.
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Mimip
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 3:56pm | IP Logged
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This hits very close to home as my father is getting "married" this September. My parents marriage was annulled many, many years ago and I am very glad that my father has found someone that makes him happy but because of a VERY long list of reasons he no longer practices the Catholic Faith so is not getting married in the church.
(Just a civil ceremony)
By the grace of God, he chose to just have the ceremony with him and his future wife and his Mother and her Mother. My other siblings are furious that we are not invited to the "wedding" and I am over here jumping for joy! We are all invited to the reception which we will be attending as a family. There are so many other issues at play for our family that attending the reception is the most kind and Christian thing to do in our case.
A very dear priest explained it to us this way: He said that our family knows where we stand when it comes to marriage outside of the church but that being said our children are watching our lead. No, he would not recommend going to the the ceremony with or without the children but the reception was acceptable and a middle ground for our case.
But this hits about as close as it can get with it being my Dad
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses!
I have 9 children, ages 25 to 2 years old. We will do whatever we do as a family. But, of course, the 3 adult children will be free to choose. My teens too have an apprehension about this. My younger than 10 crowd, well, not that I have naive children , but I think from prior experience, this will go over their heads. We have a remarriage situation in the extended family and my younger kids haven't a clue whose kids are whose and if they are blood siblings or not. To my 5 year old, the boy his age literally has 3 moms. He thinks that's rather cool. Ummm...
My entire family is Catholic and this would not be a test as such. They would know exactly why I would choose not to go and I would have no other excuse because the ceremony is local. My absence would definetly cause family tension. The problem too is that this sister initially married outside the Church, but eventually her marriage was blessed and her husband converted. However, she still feels the pangs of alienation. She choose to support her daughter (paying for the wedding), hoping that her daughter will change her mind and not feel as she did (and still does to some extent).
I understand sin has consequences and I don't want to act as if this is "nothing". I know I won't send this signal to my kids so much. I think they get it.
To me going to the reception wouldn't be more or less acceptable. What is the reception anyway? A place to celebrate the union. Well, I won't be celebrating as such. I will have a very heavy heart - can't really celebrate 2 people living together. In fact, I would rather go to the ceremony....pray the entire time and not attend the party. In fact, I thought about having the whole family attend Mass early that day for this niece first - then the ceremony. This way I will be letting the kids know even more strongly how I feel about this.
My problem: Would my Mass, my letter, and prayers be a cop-out to save family tension or would it be a reasonable response?
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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Wow, Mimi....this is EXACTLY what was going to transpire here. My niece had not planned to invite anyone from this side of the family. I was secretly happy. That way, I could send a letter and a gift (a good book, cross, and little $), and it would have been OK.
I will have to think about the reception issue. Somehow I must have a mindblock on the party aspect vs why the heck I am recepting 
I know my niece knows how I feel, even before I would pen a letter. I do think my kids are watching my lead too. In fact, my adult children are waiting for us to decide before they are even saying much of anything. I think this is more of a test for us with them than with the niece or extended family. They are watching to see our response - our compassion - our values - etc.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 4:23pm | IP Logged
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At this point, since it is too late to change her mind on the ceremony, your compassion is important. I think you should follow your sister's lead.
Your children do have the formation, so basic guidance to them is to explain that we are attending to keep family harmony and unity and inspire their cousin to come back to the Flock and get her wedding blessed. This isn't a wedding, but a civil ceremony, and you can pray for her conversion.
If the family knows you know, and are watching, then I think this is the perfect opportunity to NOT repeat history, as with your sister, and your example of Christian charity would go far.
God is infinite mercy and infinite justice. The justice will come later at our personal judgment, but right now, I think we are called to imitate His mercy and reach out and be loving.
Even though it is EXTREMELY hard.
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
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StephanieA wrote:
| To me going to the reception wouldn't be more or less acceptable. What is the reception anyway? A place to celebrate the union. Well, I won't be celebrating as such. I will have a very heavy heart - can't really celebrate 2 people living together. In fact, I would rather go to the ceremony....pray the entire time and not attend the party. In fact, I thought about having the whole family attend Mass early that day for this niece first - then the ceremony. This way I will be letting the kids know even more strongly how I feel about this. |
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I have to say that I totally agree with you, Stephanie. I see the reception as a party to celebrate the union--what else can it be? And I don't consider it unloving not to attend such an event--hurting people's feelings, and that is probably what will happen, doesn't mean you're being "unloving" toward them. I think your plans are perfectly acceptable, whatever hurt feelings they may cause.
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MaryM
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StephanieA wrote:
In fact, I thought about having the whole family attend Mass early that day for this niece first - then the ceremony. This way I will be letting the kids know even more strongly how I feel about this.
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I think this is beautiful and a strong message and example to your children of your feelings.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 5:24pm | IP Logged
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A reception is a recieving..
what are your plans after the wedding? will this couple/relation-by-marriage be a part of your family? will you treat them like family.. like if it was your sister would your kids call her civil ceremony husband "uncle"?
If you're planning to recieve this person into your family even if you object to the manner in which is comes about.. then there is nothing wrong in attending a formal reception (recieving of) this person into the family.
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
A reception is a recieving..
what are your plans after the wedding? will this couple/relation-by-marriage be a part of your family? will you treat them like family.. like if it was your sister would your kids call her civil ceremony husband "uncle"?
If you're planning to recieve this person into your family even if you object to the manner in which is comes about.. then there is nothing wrong in attending a formal reception (recieving of) this person into the family.
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You're right that a reception is technically a receiving into the family. Customarily speaking, though, a reception is a *party* celebrating that reception into the family. It is one thing to treat someone with courtesy and civility when they have been invited into your home and family life by those you love. But it seems like another thing to celebrate it. I'm not at all saying that you shun a person because he or she has made a bad choice (of course!), but attending a party for it probably isn't the best approach either.
And please know that this hits close to home for me as well, as I'm sure it does for almost everyone. My children still call my BIL's wife "aunt" even though they were married outside the Church since she is legally their aunt. But we didn't attend their 10-year anniversary party last year, and we don't send anniversary cards or anything like that. It's certainly not totally black and white. Maybe it's the difference between acknowledging a relationship and celebrating it? I'm not sure those are the right words.
Either way, praying for you as you and your family make this decision, Stephanie. I have a feeling I'm going to be faced with something very similar with my brother, and I am honestly dreading it even now (and he's not even dating anyone yet!  ).
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Celeste
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Well now adding my own dilemma to Stephanie's, what is the stance of attending a wedding of two Catholics marrying outside the church? The bride has been married before in the Catholic Church. (the groom is my b-i-l- dh's brother) 
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Booksnbabes
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Oh my, Erin! Praying. I have no idea what the answer is though.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Catholic Stance on Wedding Attendance
