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JennGM
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| Posted: March 20 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
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I'm starting this thread as a jump from Elizabeth's prayer request for Michael. With the other posts about the athletic abilities and injuries in Charlie and Corey, I've just had a few thoughts I wanted to run up the flagpole.
I should go back and reread the chapter on Sports in Real Learning because Elizabeth had some great points.
When a child has an athletic talent, we need to nurture it. I do worry about balance....and "putting all the eggs in one basket." If the child gets injured, what does he fall back on? A well-rounded education to me is just key...which I can see you moms are doing a great job.
Dh is a Penn State grad, and huge football fan. His favorite player, and also one of Joe Paterno's favorites and example he holds up is Mike Reid. He's an Altoona, PA native (so is my dh). Actually lived down the road from dh when growing up.
He didn't start taking piano until about age 11, was a natural. He didn't start playing football until high school and was great. Got onto PSU football team, played Defensive Tackle, made All-American, winning the Outland Trophy and Maxwell Trophy, later made the college Football Hall of Fame. All the while he kept up with his major in music while being a football player!
He was drafted to the Cincinnati Bengals, played a few years, and then decided to quit and go into his other love, music. Football wasn't fun anymore. It was all about the money and winning in the pros and he didn't like it.
So he now writes music, received a Grammy Award for a song, Songwriter of the Year award and he still plugs away. Not bad?
For brief reading, see Ex-Bengal's Music Career Blossoms.
Mike Reid, College Football Hall of Fame
Mike Reid
Dh has read a short bio somewhere, I can post the name of the book if anyone is interested.
Not every child will be another Mike Reid, but both dh and I look at his life as a good example for various reasons.
One is the pressure nowadays of organized sports at such young ages. Does a child have to start so young? If we're working on the skills in the home environments and he's talented, won't he be able to adapt to a team? We're not sure...I know there's a lot of pressure to start young, let them be seen, have the experience. If he doesn't his career might be ruined, because no one will let him in at higher leagues.
Second reason is the example of giving a "Renaissance education" -- sports and music can go together. I look at the examples in Elizabeth's book -- Michael is a good artist, and good in sports. They aren't conflicting.
My son is young, but dh is very athletic, and we already see some natural talent and love for sports in dh, so this is a discussion I'd love to see.
Is your child good in sports? Any in particular?
What do/did you do with your children at the younger ages?
How about in the teenager years? How hard is it to get a homeschooler on a team?
What kind of balance do you create in their education?
Do you put your foot down about Sunday practice or games? Seems almost impossible in today's leagues.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Martha
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jenngm67 wrote:
| One is the pressure nowadays of organized sports at such young ages. Does a child have to start so young? If we're working on the skills in the home environments and he's talented, won't he be able to adapt to a team? We're not sure...I know there's a lot of pressure to start young, let them be seen, have the experience. If he doesn't his career might be ruined, because no one will let him in at higher leagues. |
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I'll pounce on that last part. What career?? Is it really neccessary to have a career or even a career in mind before a kid even turns 16??? Good grief, why?? Yes they may show talent, they may even be gifted, but that doesn't always mean that's what they want to do for a living for the rest of their lives either. Why is it that nurturing a talent has to be tied to making money at it? I'm with you, I think true talent doesn't die for lack of use before puberty. If anything, I think talent may blossum best with left to it's own sometimes.
jenngm67 wrote:
| Second reason is the example of giving a "Renaissance education" -- sports and music can go together. |
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On that I completely agree and I am truely confounded as to why anyone would think otherwise. It didn't used to be an either or or kind of thing. I love a samuri proverb from vol. 2 of Story of the World, "Practice the arts of peace on the left hand, and the arts of war on the right." (p. 175)
jenngm67 wrote:
| Is your child good in sports? Any in particular? |
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Some yes, some no, some maybe, some yet unknown. I have some children that like sports, but don't care to play competively. I have some who like to compete, but don't like team sports. (think golf, bowling, ect..) I have some who like sports, but don't want to play at all. I have some who just don't like sports at all.
jenngm67 wrote:
What do/did you do with your children at the younger ages?[quote]
With our 1st we did the competive thing starting at 4/5. Soccer, bowling, ect.. Eventually, we asked ourselves why we were doing this to ourselves and stopped. No regrets. Now we don't do anything organized out of the home for any child under 2nd grade. And have decided to do nothing competive before 7th or maybe even 8th for the others. There's pe class, some casual art classes, woodworking, ect.. Nothing major, just dabbling in various things here and there.
[QUOTE=jenngm67]How about in the teenager years? How hard is it to get a homeschooler on a team?[quote]
I havne't a clue yet!
[QUOTE=jenngm67]What kind of balance do you create in their education? Do you put your foot down about Sunday practice or games? Seems almost impossible in today's leagues. |
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God
Family
Personal needs
Academics
Other
In that order. It's another reason why we do so little in the early years now. It just conflicts too much with our priorities.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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MaryM
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| Posted: March 20 2006 at 6:22pm | IP Logged
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jenngm67 wrote:
| When a child has an athletic talent, we need to nurture it. I do worry about balance... |
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There was a thread a month or so back that was specific about soccer talent and nurturing it. Mike Foss posted a great response.
jenngm67 wrote:
| He didn't start playing football until high school and was great. Got onto PSU football team, played Defensive Tackle, made All-American, winning the Outland Trophy and Maxwell Trophy, later made the college Football Hall of Fame.... |
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Stories like that are always inspirational. Isn't that the case with Michael Jordan or some other famous BBall player - didn't start until age 12 or something?
jenngm67 wrote:
| One is the pressure nowadays of organized sports at such young ages. Does a child have to start so young? If we're working on the skills in the home environments and he's talented, won't he be able to adapt to a team? |
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It used to be that kids could play a variety of sports in an informal way in the neighborhood and develop the skills. Some games still can be approached that way to some degree (basketball, pick-up hoops being the one that comes to mind) but it is a lot harder to find enough kids in a neighborhood to do baseball or football for instance. Nobody is around anymore in the neighborhoods and parents pften do have to find organized teams now if children are to get some team experience.
jenngm67 wrote:
| Is your child good in sports? Any in particular? |
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My two oldest sons are very good at baseball - particuarly the 14 year old. He also plays soccer but baseball is his passion. He is a natural athlete and pretty much takes to anything he tries with very little effort. He is small (5' 4"), but makes up for it talent and strength. He never has played basketball on a team (just hoops at home) but worked out with the high school team during tryouts just for fun and inpressed the coaches who couldn't believe he had never played. He thinks he might actually try out next year (still wished he was taller  ).
Our oldest was the starting first baseman for their team that won the high school state championship last year. The 14 year, as a freshman, lettered in soccer this fall and is the starting second baseman for the baseball team this spring (we are so excited they are on the same team this year - first time ever  )
jenngm67 wrote:
| What do/did you do with your children at the younger ages? |
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Both the boys did play organized baseball starting with t-ball (age 5-6) but it was VERY low-key at one of the local parks department rec. centers. We didn't start the oldest on a more competitive team until he expressed an interest at about age 10. Both then played with that league through age 13. It was more competivie but not hyper-competitive like the traveling leagues that are out there. Same type scenerio for soccer with #2.
An aside on the super competitive teams - we have seen lots of the kids who have gone that route quit playing before they finish high school. But that is another thread.
jenngm67 wrote:
| How about in the teenager years? How hard is it to get a homeschooler on a team? |
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I have a cop-out answer because that is one of the factors that lead to our boys going to a local Catholic school - ie the traditional route. They wanted to play baseball at the next level and for baseball there really are not many other feasible options besides playing on the high school teams. There are homeschool leagues but they are not very competitive at all in this area. Homeschoolers have to be given equal treatment if they try out for their local public high school team here (don't know if that is the same everywhere), but the reality is unless you are REALLY exceptional you probably won't make the team. That's how it seems to shake out here anyway. Other sports have more options here than baseball does.
jenngm67 wrote:
| Do you put your foot down about Sunday practice or games? Seems almost impossible in today's leagues. |
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It isn't an issue for the school games becaues the archdiocese won't allow it. Baseball tends not to ever play on Sundays around here unless it's a make-up game so was not usually a problem for baseball. Had more challenges with soccer, worship always came first and since we could always make Mass, we did do Sunday games if they came up.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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lapazfarm
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We used to do all the sports with all the kids and were constantly on the move with a practice or game daily, and even having to split dh and I between simultaneous games during soccer season. Then we stopped the madness and have never looked back. Dc are allowed one outside activity each. Period. And I discourage team sports. Why? Because if we are going to invest that much time and energy, then I would rather have it be for an individual sport that the child can enjoy for life, such as karate, swimming, horseback riding, etc. I don't kid myself that my kids will be pros. Even for the most talented kids (and I have one ) the odds are so stacked against them.
So I have one child in jazz band, one in Karate, one in guitar, and one little one that doesn't have an outside activity yet (and one grown, who did piano). We also have horses that they ride- which also teaches teamwork and responsibility, big time.
I guess I just think that individula sports will carry over into adulthood better than team sports, which is why I encourage them. I also dislike the competitiveness of team sports nowadays. My dd played soccer many years and loved it and was truly talented- the only girl on her middle school team. Once she got to the high school level and was playing on a highly competitive indoor soccer team (again, all boys but her)she lost interest rapidly. Her reason was "Its no fun when you have to compete against your own teammates." She likes her Jazz band alot better
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Willa
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| Posted: March 20 2006 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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I think a family charism thing comes into play. The Fosses are a good example of that. Also, there's a family living near us who are way big into sports. They play every seasonal sport that's going and their dad coaches almost all their teams. They have 3 high energy boys who crave the activity outlet, which helps them to excel at school and not have to get medicated, probably! And the dad and mom both love sports, love seeing their boys compete, love the whole coaching and sports mom scene. It works really well for them.
At my highschool graduation, Jean Claud Killy gave the commencement address. He was an Olympic skiier back then. I remember the note of sadness in his speech. He told us he had really pushed on athletics and ignored everything else. Once he got older and past his athletic peak, he did not feel he had other personal resources to fall back on. Balance, I guess, was what he was telling us to pursue, and the kinds of accomplishments and abilities that last longer than the first 35 years of your life.
This being said, balance looks different for different people.
My 13yo is excellent in sports and anything that involves coordination and strength. He plays football and baseball, but is presently in an unmotivated slump as he reaches full adolescence. DH and I are trying to discern whether to push him a bit to continue athletic participation, or to let him have a break; and he himself is similarly trying to discern.
About starting later -- he didn't start football until last year, in the junior league, and excelled. In fact, the three top players on his team, of which he was one, were all first-year players. I don't think it necessarily hurts, but maybe it varies across different sports?
About the Renaissance Man, my DH noticed in his schooldays that often the excellent athletes were the excellent scholars too -- probably because of the confidence, discipline and physical health that athletics bring?? (this being said, our most academic kid is not very athletic, so there's probably a niche for the bright more quiet kid)
I used to be not much impressed with team sports at the childhood level. So my older kids had minimal involvement in team sports. But we're bigger on seasonal athletics these days. It's sort of a cooperative, energizing endeavour at best, and it gives my boys a chance to be with other kids in a relatively family-intensive (and particularly, DAD-intensive) environment. Plus, it's quite a bit less expensive in our area than individual lessons.
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Willa
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Take Up and Read
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Willa
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Oh, and Sunday games are not an issue here at all in our conservative, fairly church-based community. They just don't happen. This actually ends up being a challenge though, since our only mass in our area is 4 pm vigil on Saturday. Sometimes we have to drive 60 or more miles for a game on Saturday and then go 60 miles again on Sunday for mass in town since we couldn't make the local mass on Saturday!
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Erin
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All four of our oldest children play soccer, I see this as a very positive step for our children at this stage. They are not Michael Fosses they are mostly fair to better players on their teams.
We have really pushed upon them the spirit of being a team player. From soccer they have learnt many skills and we have had many positive and some negative aspects. Which btw we see as a benefit in ways. They have had opportunities to learn how to deal with certain situations in a controlled enviroment.
I guess we are very lucky though because they all play the same sport so its a family thing, we all go and they watch each other. Also they go to each other's training sessions and will often join in siblings practices, helping or playing. We live in town and our yard is not that large so for very energetic children it has been a blessing.
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Erin
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:52am | IP Logged
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jenngm67 wrote:
| Is your child good in sports? Any in particular? |
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Ummmm  Two of my children are nationally ranked soccer players. My nine-year-old danced Clara in the Nutcracker last year. My children are gifted athletes. It took me a long time to be able to say that out loud.
Jenn wrote:
| What do/did you do with your children at the younger ages? |
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Let's see, I nursed them in every collegiate basketball arena on the East coast. Took them to every CAA tournament and many ACC tournaments. Let them hang out in the athletic department of major universities, had them rub elbows with soccer hall of famers on a regular basis, oh and the youngest player on the Us Ntional team lived with us for awhile and took care of them when my youngest was born. They have travelled around the country and sat at dinner tables with coaches and watched important games in famous stadiums. They were there to witness the beginning of American soccer  .
They've gone to England to watch the British Premier League in person and walk through the museum at Manchester United. While there, they stayed with a young man who is playing the First Division until next season, when he, too will be in the Premier League.
My husband worked in collegiate athletics and then went on to be ESPN's point man for television soccer. I have children who think that everyone grows up to play something professionally. And if they don't play, they are coaches or trainers or agents.
We have a big, flat backyard, with four good-sized goals in it. For my children, the best thing in life is when Daddy's home for "Family Soccer." Stephen (7) played his first real organized season last fall after begging for four years. Nicholas (5) only plays on teams Michael coaches. We try to keep it simple for them for as long as possible.
Jenn wrote:
| How about in the teenager years? How hard is it to get a homeschooler on a team? |
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With soccer, it's simple. It's not driven by high school athletics and the best teams are actually the club teams. That's where recruiting happens. We are going to be challenged by our second son, who prefers basketball. In Virginia, homeschoolers are not allowed to play on school teams. Right now, Christian is working with several state representatives and some former Redskins to get that rule changed. We'll see.
Jenn wrote:
| What kind of balance do you create in their education? |
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It's a unit study extraordinaire! Michael is a gifted artist and pursues that quite rigorously on his own. He's the captain of his soccer team and had learned some pretty impressive people skills in that capacity. He's also coaching about fifteen to twenty hours a week. While that is still soccer, it's a completely different set of skills--and he's making good money. He's also working as a mentor in an abstinence program (nothing to do with soccer there but the woman who chose the mentors was looking for "good looking, athletic, articulate, leaders"--he's that.) In the fall, he'll intern with some former coaches who are sports agents downtown. Next spring, he'll intern with a Washington Post sports writer. There, I see him integrating photography with sport in a whole new way. He's had a pretty well-rounded liberal education. I will admit, I am forced to work around funky sports schedules and injuries, but that's where I'm really grateful to educate at home. I can't imagine working all this into a school schedule.
Last weekend, we all had the opportunity to consider what he'd do if he had just played his last game. Frankly, he'd be very sad, very disappointed. But he'd still be Michael and all the opportunities he's had, all the lessons he's learned would still be his and would still be a part of him. He'd probably still go to the school that is his current first choice. He'd probably still intern--those guys are no longer players either. If someone told him tomorrow he couldn't play anymore, he'd still be a great kid.
Jenn wrote:
| Do you put your foot down about Sunday practice or games? Seems almost impossible in today's leagues. |
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If I put my foot down it would be a ridiculous, pointless, petulant temper tantrum. My husband works on Saturday and Sunday.That's when sports are played, so that's when they are televised. Please don't throw cyber tomatoes. We are blessed to live and play sports in a large diocese--it's never a question of choosing Mass over soccer. Sometimes we divide and conquer. Sometimes a child goes to Mass with a coach or a teammate. We are all together at games as much as possible. When dh is home, there is nothing he'd rather do than watch them play--that is his R&R. What suffers is the other things people traditionally do on weekends like housework and yard maintenance and socializing with neighbors.
Willa is right. Our lifestyle is part of our charism. It's not MY charism. This is a life that I have grown into. And there are many, many days I think how much simpler life would be if no one played anything seriously. But I'm not the only parent in this house and my children have inherited my husband's passion. His post referenced above really does reflect his philosophy. And on my not tired,not sick days--when I look at my individual children--I can see real wisdom there.
Their upbringing has been a bit unusual in terms of the intensity of exposure to sport, but they really do drive it. Patrick, 11, will cry if you tell him he can't go to practice--every single time,no matter how trivial a practice seems. It's like depriving him of air. He's probably the most talented of them all. But he's also my best student.
We'll see where this all leads but if athletics are NOT a good thing, I'm in big trouble.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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saintanneshs
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This is all so interesting! We're just at the beginning of the journey and going through the whole "to sign up, or not to sign up" discussions. Thanks for starting this thread, Jenn.
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Kristine
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Cay Gibson
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jenngm67 wrote:
| When a child has an athletic talent, we need to nurture it. |
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I have work to do so I'll try and be brief. I agree that if a child has a talent/gift, it should be nurtured...in any area. Definitely.
jenngm67 wrote:
| He didn't start playing football until high school and was great. |
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We recently had a hser come into the limelight in football. My cousin, a high school coach, asked me if I knew him (I forget the name of the boy) through our hs group. I didn't but I think he is Protestant and we gather with our Catholic group more. This hser was hsed all his life then went to a private school his senior year. He signed on at a college with a full scholarship and has all the area coaches scratching their heads. My cousin told me, "How did anyone miss this guy?" They can't believe he was hsed all his life with this talent. He played rec. That was it.
jenngm67 wrote:
| Not every child will be another Mike Reid, but both dh and I look at his life as a good example for various reasons. |
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I agree. We have always allowed our dc to play rec sports for fun. We never seriously pushed for it to become a career choice because the reality is that the chances are slim. (more at that later)
Sometimes, with our girls, it became a chance to push them outside their comfort zone. They enjoyed it after the first few practices and made new friends. It's all in the exposure. For my boys, it gave them a chance to say, "Hey, I'm good at this." It gave them something to feel good about, taught them to work as a team, taught them discipline, and exercised their bodies.
With JPII's blessings over sports, I have never felt I had to justify our sports schedule. There is something invigorating about sitting on the sidelines at a soccer game in brisk fall weather while the little ones play nearby and the older ones play a good game of ball.  It perks the body and mind. Nothing quite like it.
jenngm67 wrote:
| If he doesn't his career might be ruined, because no one will let him in at higher leagues. |
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I wouldn't worry too much about that as you can see from the hs example in football I mentioned above. Let them play on rec teams if they want. Our leagues don't start until around age 6 and 7 anyway...depending on the August 1 b-day cut-off. You have to be asked to play on a tournament team. The coaches do the asking.
I also have to say there are a lot of politics involved. A LOT!  We have friends whose children were excellent baseball players. Over much heartache and tears, they allowed their dc to not return the following season because the politics gets so ugly. Many times the parents have some kind of pull and they use it. All these children might have talent, but some children have more pressure to compete and perform than others. If parents don't push for perfection, there isn't much chance of a career blossoming from this recreational sport.
jenngm67 wrote:
| Is your child good in sports? Any in particular? |
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My second ds did team sports for a couple season (football, soccer, baseball). He was very good at each one. As he got older, he preferred individual sports (bowling, golf). He plays golf weekly. For his 13th b-day, we bought him a new set of golf clubs and his grandfather and uncle took him and a friend to an elite golf course to play the whole day. They played 27 holes. He was in heaven. He also realized that he probably would have played a better game had he used his old familiar clubs.
He would love to become a pro-golfer and we encourage him. We compliment his skills, we take him golfing every chance we can and he joined a hs golf team where a pro worked with them. (Is it prideful to say he won everything competition on the golf team? He is not a studious kid so this gives him something he can excell at and say, "Hey, I'm good at this!") That's another thing parent's must guard against...pride. And it can be a hindrance towards discerning God's will for your child.
We also keep reality in check. How many golfers become professionals? How many make a living at this? Welcome to the real world. Chances are slim. Still, I want to be the parent giving him an encouraging word and pat on the back. I want him to know we're behind him...100%. I also want him to know that there are other options. He waits for Opa every morning so he can grab the sports page. He keeps track of scores and sport statistics with an amazing memory. I encourage him to become a sports broadcaster, a sports writer, a caddy for a pro golfer , etc.
We did this with our oldest and he has done fine. He has pursued a large circle of interests and focus. He learned what we wanted him to learn through soccer---working with a team, discipline, and good workouts. And we all had a ball while doing it. Fond, fond memories there. 
jenngm67 wrote:
Do you put your foot down about Sunday practice or games? Seems almost impossible in today's leagues.
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Our area is very respectful of religious obligations. If a child can't make practice due to church or whatever, it is no problem. We are a large Catholic community. When my oldest was on tournament teams, most of the families were Catholic so everyone went to the same Mass together when they were traveling out of town. For games played locally, we have many different Masses scheduled. It's always easy to find a Mass that we could attend.
I've gotten long-winded but wanted to add that we saw two of David's boys at the funeral home yesterday. The one Corey's age, graduated last year (Corey has a fall b-day), and he is now at college in Lafayette on a full scholarship. Mark asked him if he was still playing sports. He shook his head, "School takes up all my time. No time for much else."
So it's a hard balance. Life is a hard balance. Computer time is a hard balance.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
In Virginia, homeschoolers are not allowed to play on school teams. Right now, Christian is working with several state representatives and some former Redskins to get that rule changed. We'll see.
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Elizabeth, I would be so interested in what Christian is doing. One of the main reasons Charlie is still in school is baseball. We were told by HSLDA that it is not about state regulations but the athletic association that the schools belong to which prevents the homeschoolers from participating. I really want to fight this, because I want to bring Charlie home. For baseball, the high schools are where they get noticed by scouts and college recruiters.
I am hoping that his coaches will be so impressed with him this season that they will be willing to fight for him.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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ALmom
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I can give a different perspective. We do believe in nurturing talent and interest. I see some benefits from team sports and learning the rules of different games - exposure. After all, being well-rounded goes both ways. However, the whole sports scene has been heartache for one of our children and a very negative experience over all.
This son loved baseball and when he asked to play rec ball we signed him up. My dh and I are idiots in sports and know nothing - so we tried to learn to help. But our ds was starting at 9 yo and in our rec league, if they didn't start at at least 5/6 or were known as good athletes by the kids or buddies with someone from the schools - then none of the coaches wanted them. When practice occured, they only worked on the "star" players and stuck my son out in the field to be ignored. We went to the batting cages to help him practice batting but it took us a long time to figure out what things to look for to help him. About that time, we also discovered the kid had a vision problem - and I'm sure that contributed to the fact that he struck out every single time he came up to bat. Baseball is no fun if you never get to run the bases, if you are stuck out in the field for the minimally required 3 innings and no balls ever come to you. It wouldn't have been so bad, if at least at practice he had a chance to work to learn the skills he needed to be better. But he was ignored here as well - he was stuck on a team where no one wanted him. He doesn't even like his team shirts because they remind him of those years. We stuck with it for 3 seasons - as long as he still wanted to try. We consulted athletic people to teach us how to help our son because he wanted it - one coach told us that he had wonderful coordination and if he'd had him, the boy would have been a star - but he couldn't get him on his team now as he only had certain slots, etc. By the third season, where the coaches were handing out team balls for good plays and our son had no chance to do anything to earn a ball - because he was placed way out where nothing ever came and no one noticed that he was always backing up, etc., etc. our son just lost all interest. It really killed his interest in baseball, and has hurt his confidence. He has told us he doesn't want to do anything besides just throwing with his dad and avoids athletics like the plague. He struggles with everything from academics to athletics and we still pray about finding something where he can gain some self-confidence. He is a very special and sensitive young man- has learned a lot from suffering but a mom's heart aches for him to find his niche and we don't even really know how to help him.
The other issue we had was that, because our boys are different ages, they could never play on the same team. Some of our girls also played softball at the same time (it was more truely recreational and very positive experiences, though a real impact on family dinner, etc.) We would have children scheduled for practice or games on same night at different fields and dh and I would try to be in 3 or more places at once. We were honestly relieved when the girls decided they'd had enough (our oldest had to pick between sports and music as she was missing way too many games for music things and we felt that wasn't fair to the team - even though the girl's group was rec and the coaches and girls didn't seem to mind). Our oldest boy didn't want to even see a baseball for a while - still avoids sports in general and is still fighting vision suppression.
Our 2nd son had a lot of fun, took to it all very naturally and we probably would have let him continue if he had expressed an interest. He was the "star" player, so he got lots of attention, had coaches calling him to play up for tournaments, etc. and was having fun. He started the year after his brother did, but was 5/6 when he started. I think the intense competitiveness of supposedly recreational ball, just got to him and he lost interest in organized sports.
We would love a PE or loose training/scrimmage type situation so that our children have a balance without the pressure. It is important for them to develop physically and we find that this gets way too neglected in our house as mom is a total clutz and dh never had much exposure to any athletics. We do not have a flat backyard to make it convenient and are leary of ever trying the rec route again.
I am not saying we would not let our dc play rec ball again, but they will have to ask for it. I don't think we will ever suggest it. I do know a family whose dad coaches the sons in baseball techniques and works with them daily. At age 9, they have to fight their way to recognition on the rec teams - usually being ignored for a number of years before finally being so good they can no longer afford not to utilize them. This works for them because the dad has the knowledge and ability to develop and train the skills and the dc have some natural inclinations as well. Our dc will never be star athletes, but I think they'd like to be respectable and have a chance to play some team sports with a little less intensity. We're still looking for something for them. Right now they have become home bodies and do not like leaving home for anything. We need balance - but without the craziness of our intensely competitive rec sports and the havoc it wrecks on family life. We are not a family that could live at the ball field. We're still looking for something to develop a well-roundedness in our boys.
Janet
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JennGM
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ALmom wrote:
| However, the whole sports scene has been heartache for one of our children and a very negative experience over all. |
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Janet,
My heart aches for your son. I had a similar experience when I was in junior high which really killed any desire to play sports. I'm not a natural athlete, my parents had no clue about getting their children into organized sports. We moved from TX to LA when I was in 6th grade. I tried out for basketball. I didn't know much, but I was willing...didn't realize you had to be a good player "before" you got on the team. My parents presumed you would learn at that age...after all, it's not high school, right?
After not being called for practices and games, my parents took me out. I tried softball in the spring. I stood in the outfield and did nothing. My friend and I weren't too talented, and learned we were "persona non grata" when we weren't called by the coach when a game was cancelled!
Dh came from a close-knit community, played in the neighborhood with so many sports. He joined the school teams with no problems. He even had an opportunity in high school to play golf on the new team in his high school...never had picked up a club before and did quite well.
Dh comes from a different perspective than I did. Both are the opposite extremes, and we don't understand the starting at a young age, the politics, etc.
So thanks everyone for your input. What I'm taking to heart is that as the parent we must continually evaluate and nurture and bring out the talents, even if hidden. Embracing the sports isn't "bad", and if that's the dominant talent, we need to walk that path, but continuing to help him round out his education.
--Elizabeth, your example is so wonderful. I admit, I feel exhausted just reading what you have to do to keep up with your talented children!
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Elizabeth
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Molly,
The organization is the VHSL. There is a National High School League, which is the umbrella organization for all the state organizations. The angle they are taking is that there is a precedent. Colorado, for instance, allows homeschoolers. I'll see what else I can dig up for you.
I know the local high school coach begged on behalf of Michael this year. Michael was not necessarily as excited about playing for them. This is a brand new high school and their soccer team is really hurting. They tried to make a case that they needed him just for sheer maturity. No exceptions were granted. Michael was hoping he could break ground for Christian...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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guitarnan
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In our state (WV), homeschoolers could play until last summer, when the Supreme Court decided that they weren't eligible to play on public school teams. This isn't your typical state...property taxes don't fund public education here, so no one could use the argument that homeschooling families contribute to the school athletic programs, so should be allowed to participate. I understand there is some kind of new lawsuit or trial beginning to test this decision, but I doubt it will go anywhere.
In our sparsely populated county, this means that anyone who wants to get noticed by a college now absolutely must enroll in the one public high school. There's just no other way to contend for an athletic scholarship.
Fortunately for our family, I suppose, my son only plays baseball as a team sport. He'd be great at football (big and stubborn) and was heavily recruited by the middle school teachers, coaches and parents last year. Now he just tells people he's homeschooled, and they sigh. (He's secretly grinning...he has no interest in playing.)
My daughter is so high-energy that I always have her in at least two sports/dance activities. So far she has enjoyed them all a great deal, although she isn't super-talented at anything except memorizing dance and cheerleading routines. Perhaps this will expand later into dance talent in general, as I've noticed she's much better at learning the routines than most girls her age. So far we haven't had any problems with her participation in AYSO and Little League team activities, and the rest of her sports are here on our Navy base.
Our county is extremely conservative, so we never have games on Sundays.
I think it's important to foster genuine talent in a child, whatever that talent might be...God gave that particular gift for His purpose, and we can't know at the beginning just where His plans will lead. Certainly I never thought that my lifelong interest in education, travel and history would lead me to 1) life as a Navy wife or 2) life as a homeschooling mom, yet all my high school friends who know I homeschool now mention my early interest in education and comment, "I'm not surprised you're doing something like this."
I'm sure it's much the same with music, sports, dance, art, writing, ministry...well, anything that comes from within and evolves into a lifelong passion. You just don't know where that gift will take you.
I certainly have had experience with parents who tried to force their kids into acting, dancing, etc., so they could be in commercials, re-live their parents's childhood dreams, etc. This can be really disastrous. (I grew up in L. A. and saw this happen a lot...there's definitely a push to get your kids into show biz if you hang out in the right - or wrong - circles.) This is different from the recognition that your child has a gift, or a special interest, that should be encouraged.
I'd never say my daughter is a gifted athlete, for example, but she's definitely an enthusiastic one. She gets a lot out of being on a team, practicing often and learning to pass the basketball instead of shoot it every time. These are lessons she won't accept from me, and I know that. For us, recreational sports are helpful at this time in her life. Later on, she might want to be a prima-donna cheerleader and I might have to say she can't do that...but we're not sure where we will be in three months, let alone in six years. I am very content to leave that future in God's hands.
So, I think my contribution to this discussion is the idea that sports can be good for kids who aren't totally gifted, but who have high energy, high interest or high enthusiasm. Some children just need an outlet for all of their energy, and organized sports can help with that.
I would like to see homeschoolers accepted into the state high school athletic systems (with tryouts and appropriate documentation of athletic eligibility), but I know this is a touchy issue in most states. While I doubt I'll need to worry about future athletic scholarships in my own family, I'd love to know that any child with talent can try out for his/her local team and compete either for a public school or private school. I think that most homeschooled athletes will have a lot of other skills and talents to fall back on if they don't progress to college-level sports, so that doesn't worry me.
I think this will come, with time. Homeschooling is becoming more mainstream each year. In many parts of the USA, we're not just 0.5% of the total student population any longer.
One other thought. Kids in our country are increasingly dealing with obesity issues. As a result, children are also developing health problems. Participation in sports - any sports, at any level - will help alleviate this problem. As parents, we must ensure that our children are fit physically as well as mentally and emotionally, otherwise they might not be able to realize all that God has planned for them. I can only hope that state legislatures and courts will realize that the well-being of all children includes sports participation.
Great, great thread!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Willa
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guitarnan wrote:
I think it's important to foster genuine talent in a child, whatever that talent might be...God gave that particular gift for His purpose, and we can't know at the beginning just where His plans will lead. Certainly I never thought that my lifelong interest in education, travel and history would lead me to 1) life as a Navy wife or 2) life as a homeschooling mom, yet all my high school friends who know I homeschool now mention my early interest in education and comment, "I'm not surprised you're doing something like this."
I'm sure it's much the same with music, sports, dance, art, writing, ministry...well, anything that comes from within and evolves into a lifelong passion. You just don't know where that gift will take you. |
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Well said and very true!
You also mention that even average kids need opportunities for athletics and physical training. I was thinking the same thing since in addition to my athletically gifted son, I have a son who enjoys team sports but is not really a "natural".
ARE there any opportunities for "average" homeschooled kids to engage in team sports and other kinds of physical training without getting benched, demoralized or putting their parents to great expense? It seems there ought to be, since these kids are as much in need of the positive effects of sports as the "elite" kids are.
Maybe it just depends on where you live?
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Willa
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Willa
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"The correct practice of sport must be accompanied by practicing the virtues of temperance and sacrifice; frequently it also requires a good team spirit, respectful attitudes, the appreciation of the qualities of others, honesty in the game and humility to recognize one's own limitations. In short, sports, especially in less competitive forms, foster festive celebration and friendly coexistence. While playing sports, Christians also find help in developing the cardinal virtues—fortitude, temperance, prudence and justice." Pope John Paul II
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Willa
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Angie Mc
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MaryM wrote:
Stories like that are always inspirational. Isn't that the case with Michael Jordan or some other famous BBall player - didn't start until age 12 or something?
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I don't know about MJ but I do know that this is true of our Phoenix Sun's Steve Nash..
Love,
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Erin
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WJFR wrote:
[QUOTE=guitarnan]
ARE there any opportunities for "average" homeschooled kids to engage in team sports and other kinds of physical training without getting benched, demoralized or putting their parents to great expense? It seems there ought to be, since these kids are as much in need of the positive effects of sports as the "elite" kids are.
Maybe it just depends on where you live? |
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Sure does, Willa you need to move to Australia.
The majority of the time the emphasis is on team sports, all kids getting a go regardless of ability. You sound far more competitive there  All of our teams are affiliated with clubs not through schools, so therefore another issue we are blessed to not have to contend with.
I agree with you average or below average kids also need the benefits of team sports.
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JennGM
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WJFR wrote:
| In short, sports, especially in less competitive forms, foster festive celebration and friendly coexistence. While playing sports, Christians also find help in developing the cardinal virtues—fortitude, temperance, prudence and justice." Pope John Paul II |
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Thanks, Willa! And Nancy, great points. I would agree with you that sports are for everyone, not just the super-talented. I think we do a disfavor to our kids to put the competitiveness so early. Where is the "celebration and friendly coexistence?"
My parents believed that is what team sports were supposed to foster, and over and over again there were dismayed and disappointed at what really existed.
Erin, I think I need to move to AUS.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Sports and Education
