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amyable
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We are having some major discipline issues here... I won't bore you with all of them just yet. 
I was wondering if anyone has specific mealtime rules you follow... sitting in your chair, no talking, chewing with your mouth closed, whatever. What are your rules and what do you do when they are broken?
Dh and I feel like we are getting nowhere with this. We don't want to turn meals into a boring list of rules, but we don't want total chaos and grossness either.  (our kids are 8, 6, 3, and 1 - obviously we'll have different expectations for the different ages).
Thanks for sharing what works in your home! 
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Mary G
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Amy -- the advice I always hear (but don't always follow  ) is to take one habit and work on that first -- so it would be just one "rule" at a time.
Our biggest trial seems to be keeping the kids at dinner table till all are done. I know my parents kept all 7 of us in our seats, why is it so hard for my 5 (especially the little ones) to stay seated? That's one we're working on now. We'd like them to stay seated and listen to the conversation rather tan wolfing their dinner to get "down". Meals, especially dinner, should be sharing times as well as eating!
Once we get that worked out, we'll work on eating a bit of everything and not saying "eew, gross" if they don't like it. This is common courtesy to the cook and the children really need to work on that one! Finishing before getting dessert is already in place (whiners get sent to the "naughty step" right aroundthe corner from the dining room.
Hope that helps a bit???? Don't forget, yours are probably no worse than mine -- that should help a bit 
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Michaela
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Mary's suggestion of working on one problem area at a time is exactly what we did.
Two or three years ago, our kids had reached a point that sitting down to dinner together was something I dreaded.
Honestly, it was a mad house. I couldn't hear my dh who sat right next to me because of the fighting, the crying and whining, and pure chaos. I considered not eating with them anymore. We loved when someone left the table because there would be less problems.
Clean up wasn't fun either because each of them seemed to have food fights or spilled something every single meal.
I told DH that I could be so embarrassed to have anyone come over to eat with us. We could forget going out to eat!
I'm not sure which problem we focused on first, however dinner is probably our favorite time of the day now. We are all together talking and enjoying each others company. I remember when DH and I looked at each other and realized we could hear each other talking without having to raise our voices. We did start a habit of going around the table to ask how everyone's day had gone. Honestly, that was a miracle....everyone got quite to listen, but mainly excited to share their day.
They KNOW what we expect at the table. It didn't take long at all once they understood our expectations and realized how serious we were. 
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Rachel May
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We have a few rules. Our latest is no going to the bathroom during dinner. All of the potty trained ones can hold it until they've met our expectation (3 regular bites and finish their drink), but they will use the potty trick to disappear forever.
I've lately started using lidded drinks with straws to cut down on the spilled drink stress that makes everything irritating!. Straws also help people drink faster.
Other rules, no conspicious bodily functions with loud giggles and bragging, no bread until they have completed their whole serving (about 5 bites), only one funny joke (Dad decides if it's funny).
Most rules are not punished; we just try to gently remind. If it is a specific ongoing problem with a specific child, then they get one reminder and then are sent to bed. We're big on first time obedience, and often they misbehave so that they will be sent away to go play instead of having to eat the food they don't want. We eat around 7 and they go to bed at 8 so it isn't long.
A recent motivator for table manners has been the crown of thorns. We made one for a centerpiece, and before a meal we will establish some rule that will earn them the privilege of removing a thorn. It has helped them a lot. Good luck! Some days it seems hopeless; others it's bliss.
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Dawn
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We seem to be *forever* working on this issue with our boys. We get too lax on table manners and then before you know it, it's the day before Thanksgiving, and we're rushing to remind them how to behave before the relatives arrive for dinner. 
Now that they're getting older however, we would like to be able to expect more, and have to remind less. Working on one rule at a time is a good idea ~ I'll be eager to read more suggestions in this thread!
As for keeping the chaos down (and the kids at the table), we have found playing little table games has been most helpful. These days in our house, it's "Who Could it Be?" - an animal guessing game we made up, based on our favorite show, Zoboomafoo. It's fun, it keeps us at the table longer, and it's a sneaky bit of science to boot!
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ALmom
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One rule at a time! To keep dc at the table, my dh started with the rule that dc(and us too) had to ask to be excused before leaving the table. This way if my dh and I have deviated into a long conversation and dc have sat for a reasonable time, they can ask to be excused and we can gracefully excuse them.
However, they generally forget to be excused the first few times and dh planned a dessert (lots of forewarning about consequences) and when a few left the table without being excused, they missed out on dessert.
Basically, no one forgets to ask to be excused now. The next hurdle was asking as soon as they had wolfed down meals - in order, generally to run off and wrestle and be generally wild and wound up. My dh nixed these tendencies with a very calm response to the request to be excused. Basically he had jobs for them - dc was asked to carry a salad dressing to the refrig., a fork to the sink, etc. This was one thing at a time so he could drag out the things to be done to keep everyone gainfully employed while everyone else finished eating. The dc began to choose to sit at the table and let someone else do all the work first .
This is a technique he also used to eliminate silliness at the table. We, of course, want all our dc to feel a part of table conversations, but you can get conversation hogs, those that say nonsense stuff just to keep the attention on them, etc. When things get out of hand in silliness - not real conversations, then he will ask that or those children to please and then it is basically the same litany of chores (one little item at a time of course).
A side benefit of this is that the dc also began to anticipate what the next request would be and try to do more than just what was asked in order to speed things along.
None of this was ever in anger and dh would even joke with dc about how the glue on the chair must have come up. All this was pleasant, good natured and got the point across. Our dc were a bit older than yours - but we do even ask the 3 yo to carry safe things - take a paper napkin to the trash for instance. You have to be a bit more sensitive to realistic expectations, the younger the dc as we try to stretch their sitting still capacity, etc. a little at a time and try to remember to include them in our conversations and get the older ones not to interrupt the littles.
Janet
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MichelleM
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Just last week dh and I came to a breaking point during meal time. We realized that everyone including us, interrupted each other continuously! No one every had a chance to finish sharing a whole thought without someone adding their two cents.
That's when we brought out the wooden spoon! I think I originally did think of spanking them with it but decided that a better way of training them would be to institute the "Talking Spoon".
It works quite simply-If you are holding the Talking Spoon you may speak. If you are not your job is to listen quietly. Mom & Dad control the spoon and if you have something you would like to share you indiscreetly hold up your hand and wait for the spoon to be handed to you. If you are impatient while waiting, you lose the privilege of sharing.
Surprisingly, it is working quite well. The little ones are actually participating in discussions and my dh & I are actually getting a few complete sentences in too!
I don't think that we will need to use the Talking Spoon forever; only until some habits are formed.
We are also using the TS to train the children in asking to be excused from the table. They must hold the TS while they ask and must receive instruction from us such as, "Yes. Please choose someone to serve by clearing their space & then return to the table to see if there is any other way you can serve our family."
This has helped to curb everyone running off after clearing their space (or not even doing that) and leaving a HUGE mess for Mom!
Other things we have instituted-Manner of the Day-Everyone practices one specific manner during meals.
If you leave the table without asking you are done and you may clear your space.(The little's may get two chances.)
If you can't sit correctly in your chair you lose the privilege of sitting and must stand for the remainder of the meal.
I have one child who spends most of dinner in the bathroom. She of course is also our slowest eater. I'm trying to remind her to potty well before it is time to eat.
Other things I'm trying to implement are teaching the olders how to serve the littles so I can actually enjoy a hot, okay warm, meal. I plan on investing in a couple of small plastic pitchers so dc can pour, a couple of pizza cutters so dc can cut, a utensil and napkin bin that can remain on the table and a large piece of Plexiglas to protect the wood on our table from spills.
From the length of this post, I'm sure you can tell I've been thinking about this a lot!
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saintanneshs
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Michelle, great suggestions! I love the Talking Spoon! Where in the world did you get this idea? Or are you always so creatively inclined?
We had to have major table manners reform last year...
Lots of reminders and lots of praise for the little things have been key. We do the chair rule too (if you misuse it, you lose it) which also goes with utensils and food. Everyone helps set, everyone helps clear and no one gets up until we are all finished. Dh and I are usually done 1st since the kids are big talkers. The kids know that they have until the last extra dish is cleared to finish up their food. No finish means no dessert, which isn't an every-night occasion, so it's a pretty big motivator. If we didn't set a time limit on meals, we'd be there all night (been there, done that). Left-overs get saran-wrapped and re-opened at the next meal...a lot to remember, but it doesn't usually happen that often. Good table manners mean an enjoyable mealtime, though not ever a quiet one around here!
Dh and I consider eating at the table together a priviledge and anyone who cannot use this priviledge wisely will have it taken from them. (ie, if they can't control themselves and behave properly at the table, they eat by themselves somewhere away from us). In a picture book about the pilgrims, we read about how the pilgrim children had to stand and eat silently during mealtimes, while their parents sat and talked and ate. This made a big impression on the kids, for the better. I started the whole "talking is a priviledge" thing last year and it's worked wonders for us since the kids absolutely can't stand having that priviledge suspended (finger on the lips like in public school)  We use the priviledge idea with everything form toys to books, music, etc.
Apparently, we've been dragging out The Goops book (about manners) a lot lately and the dc have now focused their attention on correcting everyone else's bad table habits rather than their own! "Grampop is a Goop! He's talking with his mouth full of food!"
...think that Talking Spoon will come in handy for taking turns AND bopping them when they say things like that in front of company!
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MichelleM
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saintanneshs wrote:
"Grampop is a Goop! He's talking with his mouth full of food!"
...think that Talking Spoon will come in handy for taking turns AND bopping them when they say things like that in front of company! |
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One thing at a time is a good start.
Leaving the table = you are done eating, put your plate up as you go and do not ask to return to the table.
Leaving the table should not disrupt those who are still eating. NO noise or entering or passing through the dining area while others are still eating.
As for manners, it depends. Bare basics are expected of anyone over 2. They get a reminder and then they are told to leave the table or use their mannners. No yelling or arguing about it, just a clear, calm statement followed by an order to leave the table if they don't want to comply. For some reason I have yet to figure out, all go through a testing phase at about age 5/6 where it seems like they miss half of every meal due to a lack of willingness to use their manners at the table. We figure they must not be too hungrey if they aren't willing to sit in their chair and use some very basic manners to get their food. (say grace, mouth shut, no arguing at the table or rude comments about the food, sit up in chair facing plate, elbows off the table)
It sounds so horrid now that I've typed it out! But really it's always been this way and it's not that big a deal. Dc who want to eat shouldn't find it too big a chore to use very basic manners while doing so. Children who aren't hungry aren't going to eat anyhow and shouldn't be allowed to set a bad example for the little ones at the table or to ruin everyone else's meal.
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Willa
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I'm curious -- if the kids get "excused" from a meal for bad manners, is that all the food they get for the rest of the day? I could see some of my kids preferring to skip dinner and fill up on graham crackers before bedtime.
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Rachel May
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WJFR wrote:
| I'm curious -- if the kids get "excused" from a meal for bad manners, is that all the food they get for the rest of the day? I could see some of my kids preferring to skip dinner and fill up on graham crackers before bedtime. |
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Yes, but it would be anyway since dinner is late. I give snacks during the day, but after dinner the kitchen is CLOSED! I figure if they go to bed hungry that is their choice.
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Michaela
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Rachel May wrote:
A recent motivator for table manners has been the crown of thorns. We made one for a centerpiece, and before a meal we will establish some rule that will earn them the privilege of removing a thorn. It has helped them a lot. |
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 We are doing the same thing! Last night, they were working extra hard after dinner (clearing the table and straightening up the dining room) that I let them take a thorn from their crown. (Each of our children made their own.) It was funny watching them continue to clean in other rooms just hoping we'd tell them to take another thorn out.
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Michaela
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WJFR wrote:
| I'm curious -- if the kids get "excused" from a meal for bad manners, is that all the food they get for the rest of the day? I could see some of my kids preferring to skip dinner and fill up on graham crackers before bedtime. |
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My Nicholas is one who'd skip a meal waiting to fill up on snacks. Not from being excused, but he is a very picky eater. We remind them that if they don't eat at dinner (just a few bites), they can't have a snack before bed. It's only been necessary here one time.
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ShawnaB
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Just tonight, I looked across the table at Dh, and over the noise I asked, "why do we even bother eating dinner together? Its so stressful...and so gross! We should just feed the kids, put them to bed, and then have dinner in peace!"
But dinnertime together is something we both value, and even though it is a bit of a sacrifice right now (with 2 babies in highchairs, screaming for more food, and smearing and dropping it everywhere...tonight they ate blueberries ), this post is reminding me that this season is short. Babies do grow up! And table manners will come. Thank you for this important and timely reminder.
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Erin
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This is so refreshing, I thought my children were the only gross ones. We are nearly demented with ds nearly 7 eating with his fingers. And dd12 sits with her knees up at the table Need I go on, I am going to comb all your suggestions for help. Thanks.
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saintanneshs
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WJFR wrote:
| I'm curious -- if the kids get "excused" from a meal for bad manners, is that all the food they get for the rest of the day? I could see some of my kids preferring to skip dinner and fill up on graham crackers before bedtime. |
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If mine are "excused" they are done. There are no snacks before bed (it's only an hour and a half away). Rachel, I'm with you...if they go to bed hungry that's their choice. I usually don't send a child from the table for bad manners without sending his food with him (to another spot).
If he chooses not to eat that food, that's another matter entirely. Re-serving the same plate of untouched left-overs really helped my older 2 to understand that what Mommy prepares is what we are eating. As a side note, I try to prepare mostly stuff that isn't what I considered gross or yucky when I was a kid and we usually let the kids pick out onions and peppers from their meals. Anyway, this worked well with my older 2 kids, but my 3yo can boycott a meal 4 or 5 times and I usually lose my resolve by then and just pitch it. He has such determination! So I don't know if the re-serving idea will work for him... I guess we do this because dh couldn't stand the idea of me having to make kid-friendly alternatives to every meal (which are usually pretty kid-friendly anyway). It's been great at helping the boys to be brave enough to try new things (well, not the 3yo!) and when we visit others for meals, they eat everything and never complain, thankfully. We do let them have a snack between lunch and dinner, but not if they didn't finish their lunch (which is proportioned just right for them). We do allow bread at dinner, so if they aren't too crazy about the main course they have an alternative should they choose to skip it for that night and try it again the following night. Dh and I really hate to waste food, so I don't make things I know will not go over too well, but we still seem to have plenty of variety. Oh, and there's exceptions to the rule as well, like when Mommy makes something for the first time and it isn't what we thought it would be. I figure if dh and I don't like it (we aren't very picky) then the dc shouldn't have to eat it.
Two things that have encouraged us to keep this mealtime "rule" going: A year ago, our boys were asked to be ringbearers in a wedding and when the mother of the groom called to set up rehearsal dinner meals for our boys, she was surprised to hear that we weren't interested in having separate plates of hot dogs for them, but would just have the same meal as everyone else (the boys thought it sounded good). She informed us that the other kids at the r.d. all insisted on something different.
One time a man who was visiting dh's parents was offered a hot lunch during his business visit. This grown man, when he found out what was to be served actually asked if there was anything else. I can't even imagine...
Okay, I've gone on about this way too long
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Elizabeth
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We just don't have this problem. And I can't figure out why . We say grace before meals. We talk with one another--one conversation. No one has ever gotten up and left before dinner was over. My dh has been known to do some things at the table that remind me of when HE was an adolescent (I always thought he'd outgrow them), but it's all in fun and sort of part of our family culture.
But I have been thinking and thinking about how this happens. Believe me, we have lots of behavior issues in other places. The only thing I can come up with is that despite all the holes in my upbringing, meals were sacred. And they were sacred in my grandmother's house and in my great-grandmother's house. We are Italian cooks who start planning the Easter menu somewhere around Mardi Gras. Much time and love and thought go into food preparation. Usually, there are children at my elbows as I cook. Dinner is an EVENT. They don't want to miss it and they respect the traditions of manners around it. We don't usually have dessert and we don't make a big deal of "a clean plate." If you don't want what's being served, you may have a peanut butter sandwich. I don't fuss much about who ate what. We just don't have a lot of junk around the house and snacks really are limited to fruit, raw veggies, and occasional popcorn. So, I figure they get what they need. As much as possible, I try to respect individual tastes. For instance, Christian doesn't like cheese on his pasta. I pull his pasta out before I add cheeses to the family serving plate. I do not however jump though big hoops. Patrick doesn't like mushrooms--he can pick them out; I just don't cut them too small.
Everyone has an assigned seat and every one sits at his or her place. The little ones have tall chairs from Ikea so they reach the table nicely.
Oh, and when dinner is over, it's time for them to clean the kitchen (EVERYONE--3 and up). So, maybe that's why they aren't in a rush for it to end.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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teachingmom
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This is timely for me. Last Friday, my entire family celebrated the Catholic wedding of one of my brothers. He had been married by a justice of the peace many years ago. They finally met a wonderful priest who stepped in and led them through the annulment process for my s-i-l and the marriage preparation process. He told them that it was his goal to have them married in the Church before he was reassigned from their parish. Well, he is leaving in June, and he met his goal. Thanks be to God!!!
Anyway, everyone went to a restaurant for a nice dinner after the wedding Mass. We had a room to ourselves and the tables were set up in a U shape with adults around the outside of the U and children on the inside. One of my s-i-l's, who married my youngest brother last year and doesn't have children yet, commented on how well behaved my girls were. She was amazed at how they could sit still and eat their dinner with nice manners. She said she just doesn't see it in most children. I think she was "taking notes" for when she has children of her own. She asked what dh and I had done to help them have such good table manners at restaurants.
The one thing I came up with that helps most in restaurants is the rule that everyone MUST stay seated for the entire meal. In general, we all stay at the table until everyone is finished. Dh is even more adamant than I am about this. There are times when it wouldn't bother me to have someone jump up to get something to show Daddy, but he feels very strongly that getting up from the table is very disruptive. The only exceptions are getting up to get something we need (like more milk) or getting up to use the restroom (that privilege has never been abused in our family, so it's not a big deal).
Now, as for one rule at a time, we are (STILL) working on not talking with one's mouth full of food. It's getting better, but bad habits die hard.
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Topic: mealtime rules
