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Rebeccca
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First of all, I'm posting here b/c I'm actually sipping a really great tea and hoping this b/c a conversation that will help me flesh out my thoughts.
I'm taking a class thru the diocese called Catholic Morality in the Modern World or something. Last week the topic was really on Catholic world-view/ethics and "competing" theories.
Well,last week we discussed the ultimate goal of our life existence and, according to one saint who's name I dont recall just now, it's friendship with God. Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster this friendship.
Hold on a sec . . . sip . . . mmmm . . .
I agree. Of course, I agree. Who couldn't agree?
and yet . . . mmmm, my tea for example. I don't really see it fostering my friendship with God. I know that is a bit silly but then again . . . why? I mean, if everything should foster my friendship with God, everything should. Keeping home, yes, I can see this as fostering my friendship somehow.
When it was near Christmas my husband's work had lay-offs. My husband was not laid off but it made us nervous about money so I quit my piano lessons. I'd really like to start back up but I think to myself, "How would piano lessons foster my friendship with God?" I don't really see how. Having read Happy are You Poor and considering this current issue, I don't really see this as an activity to choose. Yet I really want to. Ditto for my daughter's violin lessons, riding lessons (that she hopes to take soon), and even most of our curriculum, for that matter. I mean, math: I hold it as an absolute necessity in general and b/c my girl is very mathy, even more so for some reason. Still, I'm not sure I see how it fosters her friendship with God.
unless learning, using her God-given gifts, is fostering her friendship with God.
Is it?
If the answer to this question is Yes, how can I know it really is the right answer and not just justifying the answer I want?
Since reading Fr. Dubay's book and now taking this class, this is weighing very heavily on my mind. I'd really like to know your thoughts on the matter.
thanks 
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JodieLyn
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But is "friendship with God" the same as the commonly used friendship when you're talking about other people?
Quote:
John 15
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As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.
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If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love.
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"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
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This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
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5 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.
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You are my friends if you do what I command you.
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I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, 6 because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father.
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It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.
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This I command you: love one another. |
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Though getting back to human friendship.. how would you feel if a friend refused to use your gifts?
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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CrunchyMom
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good point, Jodie, or refused your gifts altogether?
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SeaStar
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This is a very interesting thought.
Your piano lessons.... they can foster your friendship with God by allowing you to sing and play hymns of praise. Ditto the violin.
Physical activity is good for the body, which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
Horse riding, if prayerfully considered and seen as something within God's will for your dd, can lead to wonderful moments of thanking God for the beauty of his animals and creations.
I do believe that using God-given gifts fosters our relationship with God, who gives different gives to each person. I think the key is prayer- asking God to show you what *he* wants you to do- how he wants you to spend your time. If you take up piano again, and you find it is stressful or too expensive or time consuming, I would see that as God redirecting you to use your time and gifts for other things.
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mathmama
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Rebeccca wrote:
I mean, math: I hold it as an absolute necessity in general and b/c my girl is very mathy, even more so for some reason. Still, I'm not sure I see how it fosters her friendship with God.
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I have to respectfully disagree with this. I was pretty much a non believer who returned to the faith. At the time I returned my math studies were really picking up and I really found that they did foster my relationship with God. It really showed me God's awesome work, seeing all the beautiful connections in mathematics. Everything works so beautifully, fits so perfectly I knew it couldn't be man made. It humbled me. Made me realize that God is the Creator of all I was studying, I was merely the one discovering it. My math studies helped my faith perhaps more than any one thing in my life.
I think that most of our studies can do this. Show us the awesomeness of God's creation and humble us, both things that I believe foster our relationship with God.
Beth
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Therese 11/04
Anna Mary 6/07
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lapazfarm
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If a friend gave me a box of wonderful tea, and every time I sat down to sip some I thought of him fondly and appreciated the gift he gave me out of love, I think that would definitely foster a friendship with that person.
God gives us all good things (including good tea, math, and music) because He loves us. If we appreciate them as such, then it builds our friendship with Him. To love math is to love God, who conceived it all. To love art is to love God, who created beauty itself. To love music is to love God, who gives us a soul that longs to sing His praises.
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Theresa
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guitarnan
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I agree with Beth - so many things in the world of math are so perfectly designed...as my engineer Dad says, once you begin to learn about the perfection of creation - particularly in the natural world, but also in math and the hard sciences - it is impossible (at least in my Dad's mind) NOT to believe in God.
And, on the musical side of things, there's that famous quotation, "Singing is praying twice," that helps me remember why I began my musical studies in the first place...to praise God through music.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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CrunchyMom
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If all the things you say do not foster friendship with God, what does? Are we simply to go to mass (without music, of course) and pray (in our ugly, austere homes)?
I know you don't think that, but my point is that all of life is to foster a friendship with God and give glory to him. He created us in his image, and as such, we, too, are creators. We cannot create worlds, but we can create homes, art, music, etc...
Art and music mean nothing if they do not transcend the world and help us to know God better in our soul. Music is quite unique in its ability to do this.
St. John of the Cross, one very mysterious saint who seems among the most rigid in speaking against worldy attachments, speaks highly of music and nature as a means of lifting our hearts to God. St. Paul often compares the spiritual life to that of training for athletics.
If any of these things: education, art, music, love of nature, athletics become the end to happiness in and of themselves, they are merely idols. However, the exist in order to help us know God better.
We cannot intimately know all of God's world, but to become intimately acquainted with one aspect of it, we can become more intimately acquainted with Him. Which aspect is different for all people.
Also, to perfect our soul and strengthen our mind is to be capable of loving God to the best of our ability. Math helps us learn logic, and to understand more is to work towards loving God with all our mind. To be physically fit is to be more able to love God with all our strength. To accept the respite he provides us and allow Him to love us is to begin to love him with our hearts.
You can also love God by sacrificing your tea should He call you to it, but that does not mean that for others it is not a "gift" to them from heaven that they may have the strength to again pick up their crosses.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Angie Mc
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Rebeccca wrote:
Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster this friendship....I agree. Of course, I agree. Who couldn't agree?
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I don't agree! How about...Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster our *relationship* with God and neighbor? Friendship is a piece of the mystery, but certainly not the whole relationship. Even better, how about, "Everything we do should help us to know, love, and serve Our Lord and to love our neighbor as ourselves"...still pithy, yet more complete  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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lapazfarm
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Angie Mc wrote:
Rebeccca wrote:
Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster this friendship....I agree. Of course, I agree. Who couldn't agree?
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I don't agree! How about...Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster our *relationship* with God and neighbor? Friendship is a piece of the mystery, but certainly not the whole relationship. Even better, how about, "Everything we do should help us to know, love, and serve Our Lord and to love our neighbor as ourselves"...still pithy, yet more complete .
Love, |
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I don't think it is a matter of disagreement here.
"To know, love, and serve"...isn't that the definition of true friendship? True, Angie's definition is more complete, but it boils down to the same thing, I think.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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guitarnan
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I love the idea that so many saints have written about the amazing wonders of creation, and have shown us so many ways to deepen our relationship with God through His wondrous works here on Earth.
I also love the fact that Jesus Himself took the time to share so many parables about what's truly important...love of God, service to neighbor...and what's not important.
Rebecca's real question seems to be - if I am reading it the way she means it to be read - is learning about math, science, music, etc. truly a way to deepen our friendship with God, or are we using that friendship as an excuse to do the things we really like to do?
One of the things that I truly appreciate about being Catholic is the rich heritage we've been given in the Bible, the Magisterium, the writings of the Holy Fathers who have led our Church and the examples of the saints. I think, when I look to all these resources, that we do need to learn as much as we're able about God's world and about the ways we've been given, as individuals, to serve Him and our neighbors as Jesus taught.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Angie Mc
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lapazfarm wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
Rebeccca wrote:
Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster this friendship....I agree. Of course, I agree. Who couldn't agree?
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I don't agree! How about...Everything we do should be done for the sake of and to foster our *relationship* with God and neighbor? Friendship is a piece of the mystery, but certainly not the whole relationship. Even better, how about, "Everything we do should help us to know, love, and serve Our Lord and to love our neighbor as ourselves"...still pithy, yet more complete .
Love, |
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I don't think it is a matter of disagreement here.
"To know, love, and serve"...isn't that the definition of true friendship? True, Angie's definition is more complete, but it boils down to the same thing, I think. |
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You are right, Theresa. I see all as agreeing too in that we all want to foster our friendship with God...to know, love, and serve, God and neighbor - surely! Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify. What I wasn't agreeing with... was the wording. I do like that the wording brings everything back to God...everything we do is to be connected with God - in relationship to God. Using the word "friendship" as well as not including "neighbor" made it hard for me to ponder the rest of the topic. I got stuck there! I thought maybe some others might get stuck there too (maybe those who are new to the faith?) so I shared a rephrase that helped me.
Since I've posted, I've thought of another pithy phrase that helped me..Everything we do should be done for the sake of His glory and to show love of neighbor! We're not drinking tea, playing music, or playing baseball for ourselves, but for His glory and love of others! We enjoy being His creation and what He has created for us to enjoy rightfully. When my ds shines on the baseball field, he brings glory to God because he is using his God-given talent and offers it back to God. God loves him for how he stives for excellence, suffers through injury and frustration, and treats all involved with Christian love.
Can you tell that I've been at 2 baseball games today plus a try out?  I'm on my way out the door to game three - tournament championship  . Have a great weekend, ladies  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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ekbell
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lapazfarm wrote:
| If a friend gave me a box of wonderful tea, and every time I sat down to sip some I thought of him fondly and appreciated the gift he gave me out of love, I think that would definitely foster a friendship with that person. |
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Part of our morning devotions is singing a Thank You song with everyone picking out something to be thankful for (For the last few months my three year old son has been thankful for scorpions  ). It's been a real help in reminding me to enjoy and be thankful to God (for the beauty of the Snow covered world during my walks, for the colours that surround me, for the music and art, warmth, light, food....)
Every good thing can lead us to God
Further thoughts
As a parent I love to see my children enjoying themselves. As a good parent I want them to become good people which isn't always enjoyable but this only makes the times when they can enjoy themselves without neglecting their duties or ideally when fulfulling their duties even better.
Our Father has even more love for me then I can imagine, and has given us so many good, wholesome ways to enjoy ourselves - as long as we don't neglect our duties.
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SeaStar
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Rebecca-
I wanted to come back here to say first, welcome to the board. It is always wonderful to have a new person and perspective on board.
And second, after reflection at mass tonight, I think I understand more of what you are saying...
Do many of our activities become "busy work" that leave us empty and too busy to have time for God? How do we weed out what is fruitful from what is mere distraction?
It does feel like life can be crammed with activities and pursuits- all good- but leaving us no time to pray the rosary, read God's word or reflect on it- no time to be still and *hear Him*.
And how can you become friends with someone when you never slow down enough to listen to what he is saying?
This is all good to contemplate, especially going into Lent.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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Angie Mc
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Rebeccca wrote:
unless learning, using her God-given gifts, is fostering her friendship with God.
Is it?
If the answer to this question is Yes, how can I know it really is the right answer and not just justifying the answer I want?
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We want to choose our activities prudently, carefully, and within the calling of our vocation in the first place, as has been mentioned. How about adding these practical filters: intent, behavior, and humility?
For example:
Drinking a nice cup of tea in peace and quiet: intent - to avoid doing my duties...behavior - to drink caffeine when I shouldn't... humility - none, I deserve the cup of tea.
OR
Drinking a nice cup of tea in peace and quiet: intent - to be grateful for God's gift of tea...behavior - to refuel the body... humility - admit that I'm weak and need a break in order to connect with Him and get revitialized in order to face my duties and be kind with my family.
Playing baseball: intent - to be the best at all costs...behavior - be selfish, not work as a team player, be entitled, cut others down, complain about others...humility - none, I'm the best, you're a loser.
OR
Playing baseball: intent - to give God the glory for our talent and successes...behavior - to work hard, suffer, master skills, show excellence, be a team player...humility - to fail and get back up again, to depend on God and your team, to only hit 3 our of 10 balls and be considered a great hitter!
Intent is connected to our daily desire to be pleasing to our Creator. Behaviors can be measured objectively, keep us honest. Humility is key... a willingness to fail, consider others, and know that we are small and completely dependent on Him. I'm guilty of having a cup of tea wrongly and my ds is guilty of playing baseball wrongly - at times. The challenge is to try to do them rightly.
Thankfully, we have many ways to show our sincere intent to our Lord (morning offering, prayerfully asking for His help, etc.) and that everyday we can show Him and others our love through our actions. Plus, we have have our crosses to carry, the Sacrament of Confession, and so many other ways to be humbled. Praise God!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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LeeAnn
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This is a favorite quote of mine from "My Daily Bread" by Fr. Anthony Paone, SJ, which might pertain to this discussion:
"If I ever wrote down a list of God's gifts to me, I would have to compose a book. Everything and everybody, whatever I may mention, is a gift of God for a definite purpose. All things, not just some things, are in my life for God's good reasons. In one way or another, they are meant to help me earn the unending happiness and glory of Heaven. I must reject any person or thing that leads me away from this goal by sin. All things are to be used wisely, that is, to help me live a good and useful life. By an intellligent use and control of life's daily needs and activities, I prove my sincere desire for God's eternal love and friendship in Heaven." (Chapter 2)
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SuzanneG
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This was in Divine Intimacy last week and thought it was applicable here:
Divine Intimacy wrote:
However, it is evident that even if we sincerely wish to mortify our senses, we cannot always avoid seeing agreeable things, listening to interesting news, eating appetizing food, and so forth. Sometimes sensible satisfactions will be imposed on us by the necessities of life, by the duties of our state, or even by our superiors. It is absolutely necessary, even in these cases, that our souls remain wholly free from all attachment to creatures and to sensible satisfactions. It will suffice to desire not to have this pleasure, and promptly to "moritfy our senses, voiding them of such pleasure," depriving them of everything, "as thought they were in darkness."
In other words, we should not stop at the selfish enjoyment of what pleases our senses, but try to raise our heart at once to God by offering Him the enjoyment we feel and which He permits for the renewal of our strength, so that we may be able to take up again with greater generosity the practice of mortification. In this way even natural joys will help to bring us to God and to increase our love. This is what St. Therese of the Child Jesus called "to rejoice for Love."
This is the pure doctrine of St. Paul, who said, "Rejoice in the Lord always"; and again, "Whether you eat of drink, or whatsoever else you do, do all to the glory of God" (Phil 4,4 -- 1 Cor 10,31). |
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~Chapter 83, page 245
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Sooo, I've been thinking . . .
