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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged
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We've all talked the modesty/dresses/Colleen Hammond thing till the cows come home before...I promise I am not talking about that again, per se. 
Something weird happened to me today. I mentioned in another thread a bit back that I've lost my post partum weight. Truth be told, I'm actually quite a bit lower than my pre-pg weight. I went to the mall today and tried on some clothes, and found that I am an entire size smaller than I thought I was or ever thought I could be. I haven't worn this size since...well, since I don't know when. Maybe never?
And when I looked at myself in the mirror in all of those clothes, I didn't recognize the person in the mirror. 
I walked away without buying anything.
I think maybe that when I was carrying extra weight, everything felt more modest to me, because, well, I was carrying an extra layer with everything? Now when I put on new clothes, I almost feel, well, naked. Even a pair of jeans or capris doesn't feel modest to me anymore. It seems like my clothes are all just hanging/fitting so differently...its not that they are tighter, so why do I feel less modest now?
I used to do the dresses/skirts thing all the time, but stopped for a variety of reasons. I'm not opposed to taking that up again, if its what God wants of me.
But I need to think this through, first, to know why I feel this way. I've tried with several friends but none of them have read the books we've all read here or thought about modesty in those terms. They are all telling me to just enjoy it and stop worrying.
That isn't sitting right with me. Why is it that a simple pair of capris or regular jeans that looked modest to me a year ago, looks so different to me now that I've lost weight?
I have to be honest, here, I don't usually talk about vulnerable things on the net. But I need to hear from you all who have shared your deeply held convictions about these things in the past, please. I am feeling so very disconcerted. I have three little girls who are watching my every move, especially right now. I wore a pair of jeans and a very long tunic top that was not clingy at all today, and all my girls were commenting on how "cute" I looked, and I wanted to cry with sadness. And I don't know why.
Modesty is very near to my heart. I need to feel congruent in this area. And right now, I don't have any peace about it...
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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Perhaps the unsettled feelings you're having relate to encountering a more worldly image of your physical self, from yourself and/or others, than when you had that extra layer of flesh to "protect" you from such a focus. So much of the issue of modesty pertains to how we are perceived by others and how we present ourselves to others. It may be that it seems easier to perceive ourselves as modest when our body image is not in line with the worldly ideal. It seems like, no matter what our body image, our dress and demeanor ought never cause us to blush in the presence of others, or more importantly in the presence of Jesus and Mary. Books, God bless you for thinking of your young daughters in this regard, and for not succombing to the temptation to flaunt your newfound body image in ways that might be an occasion of sin to others. The Lord will surely bless and honor you for your sensitivity in this area.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 3:57pm | IP Logged
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Servant2theKing wrote:
| So much of the issue of modesty pertains to how we are perceived by others and how we present ourselves to others. It may be that it seems easier to perceive ourselves as modest when our body image is not in line with the worldly ideal. It seems like, no matter what our body image, our dress and demeanor ought never cause us to blush in the presence of others, or more importantly in the presence of Jesus and Mary. Books, God bless you for thinking of your young daughters in this regard, and for not succombing to the temptation to flaunt your newfound body image in ways that might be an occasion of sin to others. The Lord will surely bless and honor you for your sensitivity in this area. |
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I never thought about that. I do feel like people are looking at me differently. Maybe I felt modest before because I felt like no one was looking? Ewwww...I don't like the thought that my previous impression of my own modesty might have been based something like this. That's not exactly a high standard.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Books,
I think Servant hit on it. I wonder if you have never felt you needed to deal with modesty until now because you felt no one was looking anyway - you felt shielded and protected from glances by the "extra layer"?
You do want to dress modestly, that is, to cover that which should be veiled. I know you're not looking to dress in a seductive way, but modest dressing doesn't have to equal a shapeless drape either. It is fine for your girls to think you look cute - what is missing is your level of comfort with the way you are expressing modesty, I believe. Modesty begins in the interior spirit and it is expressed through outward signs. When you felt larger before, you felt protected - your modesty seemed naturally taken care of. Now that your body type is more closely akin to a worldly standard of image and beauty, your natural modesty is finding it is being challenged in its expression. The result is feeling discomfort with your clothes and new form.
Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. If you have been mindful of your health and physical activity and therefore lost some excess weight, then thanks be to God. This is a good thing. So, how to veil the temple...
I feel most comfortable when I dress with Our Lady. I am mindful of current fashions - I quite enjoy *trying* to dress with the current fashions, but most of the time tend towards a simple, clean (and hopefully classic) look. I keep a statue of Our Lady and St. Joseph in my closet and look at them every morning when I get dressed. If I can't imagine running in to them in the store in what I'm wearing, I don't wear it. I keep the same thing in mind when shopping. If what I've tried on makes me feel uncertain or if too much of my form is revealed, I put it back. This body and its form are reserved for my husband alone, modesty requires that I veil it from all but his gaze.
As you drop into lower sizes, clothes are cut quite differently. They're cut specifically to reveal the body. I have trouble even with a simple polo shirt - they are now cut quite fitted and very small and tight. This is part of the challenge when dressing in lower sizes, finding current, contemporary clothing that is cut and hangs with a modest drape.
I'm guessing??? that another level of discomfort you might be facing may arise from the cut of clothing you tried on - just remember that though it is your size, manufacturers cut clothing to reveal. So, it might fit, but it might still be encroaching on your natural sense of modesty, and thus made you feel very uncomfortable - both that you *could* wear something that reveals you in this way and that you looked *this way* in the mirror. Does that make sense?
Sometimes, I size up. Sometimes, I move on entirely. You can find certain companies that cut in both a feminine and modest way - Land's End is one I like very much. I've learned to be critical with the eye, and I confess that most of the time I shop at the thrift store anyway to stretch the family dollar, so I look carefully at the cut and often look to the tag for a name I trust.
You mentioned skirts, and as a practical (I am not looking for a skirts-only controversy!) I find it much easier to dress in a modest and feminine way in a skirt or dress. Certainly, you can be quite immodest in a skirt or dress, but with a gentle cut and feminine movement to the fabric, it can be a very graceful and lovely way to dress. The fluid movement of the skirt seems to provide some natural help for me in terms of how I *feel* about myself and the expression of myself. I find that when I dress in a skirt, I am softer and allow my movement to reflect my outward appearance. It is sort of a natural gentle-ing for me...and I am greatly in need of all the help I can get in that regard.
Are we close, Books? Are we close to your level of discomfort with this, I mean? Is any of this helpful at all, or is it just a restatement of something you already knew? Am I totally off-base with the direction you're trying to go with this?
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 6:13pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Are we close, Books? Are we close to your level of discomfort with this, I mean? |
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Yeah, I think so. In thinking about some of the things you've said, I am more aware of some other things.
I wonder if my clothes really were more modest before because clothing meant to cover a larger body (or my maternity clothes) isn't cut the same way that they are cut in the regular stores.
I never really thought about what you said...that clothing is now cut especially to reveal. I've been up and down most of these same sizes with each pregnancy and post partum period, so I've been wearing a lot of older clothes. Maybe they are also more modest because they aren't current. Seeing my self in current clothing was as much of a shock as the prices of the clothes!  I'm very tall, so thrift stores never work for me.
I did try on a swooshy skirt today and would have bought it in a heartbeat if it hadn't been $90.  And now that I think of it, I didn't have that "who is that girl in the mirror" feeling, either. I think I need to pray some more about this. And while I did pray before I left, maybe I should have prayed more while I was there. I got so overwhelmed. What a weirdo I am. I can't handle shopping at a mall anymore?????
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Martha in VA
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Wow, Books, it was so interesting to read your post. I had the SAME experience last year. I lost all of my baby weight and then a lot more. I wasn't the same person in the mirror and even had trouble finding clothes small enough to fit. I felt like folks looked at me differently. (Fortunately, that also included my hubby  ) So much so that I became aware of a new level of responsibility I bore with regard to my own modesty. Just know that you're not alone in this experience.
Martha
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
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Martha in VA wrote:
Wow, Books, it was so interesting to read your post. I had the SAME experience last year. I lost all of my baby weight and then a lot more. I wasn't the same person in the mirror and even had trouble finding clothes small enough to fit. I felt like folks looked at me differently. (Fortunately, that also included my hubby ) So much so that I became aware of a new level of responsibility I bore with regard to my own modesty. Just know that you're not alone in this experience.
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Thanks, Martha. That does make me feel better. I think next time I'll bypass the mall in favor of online shopping.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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SaraP
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It's funny that you post this, Books, because I was thinking something quite opposite recently.
I dread trying to modestly dress my postpartum body because all of the weight goes straight to my chest. I feel like it's so much easier to find clothes that both fit and adequately cover when I am smaller because I am so much more proportional then.
Do you think this could be a fit issue rather than a size issue?
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SuzanneG
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Oooohhhh, Books......Great topic and discussion! I've had the same thoughts swirling in my head for the past few months too, but couldn't sort them out and put them to words......back later to read responses and discussion!
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Willa
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| What a weirdo I am. I can't handle shopping at a mall anymore????? |
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Well, I feel that way -- and am small enough at 5'8' to be able to find what I need at thrift stores, which is a relief. I can't handle clothes stores at malls -- the prices, the visual images, the whole ambiance is very disconcerting. I think malls are targeted aggressively towards a very specific image and lifestyle -- and that perhaps you felt a subtle sense of being co-opted into this. Before, you might not have felt that way because your "extra layer" made you feel safe from that image. Just adding an extra thought -- you've already gotten great wise thoughts from others on the subject.
One more thing -- when I'm at my personal ideal weight -- a few pounds below where I am now -- I find myself dealing with a whole host of teenage issues. This may not be your problem, but I've come to expect it. Being thin meant control and power to me when I was a teen, unfortunately, and so whenever I'm trying to eat better and stay more fit I get back in touch with my teenage issues. I don't wear skirts all the time but wearing skirts and "dignified" clothes helps me face and deal with these reactions. Just thought I'd mention that in case it resonated with anything going on from your past, though in your case it might have nothing at all to do with it.
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Bookswithtea
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SaraP wrote:
Do you think this could be a fit issue rather than a size issue? |
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I've been praying and thinking about this almost nonstop since I posted. Yes, fit is a big part of it, and I don't think I quite realized it at first. Everything I tried on looked normal enough on the hanger, but when I put it on, it fit so closely to the body, particularly the region Colland Hammond mentions in that 1970's ad study...that I was embarrassed.
I dug out my Modest World wrap skirt yesterday. It looked a whole lot like a triangle when I was overweight, so I had put it away, but now it looks much better, and actually, looks quite nice with a more modern top (I haven't had as many problems with tops as bottoms). I felt incredibly relieved to put on a skirt.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 09 2009 at 3:24pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
I can't handle clothes stores at malls -- the prices, the visual images, the whole ambiance is very disconcerting. I think malls are targeted aggressively towards a very specific image and lifestyle -- and that perhaps you felt a subtle sense of being co-opted into this. |
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That's possible. Actually, I haven't tried on mall clothes in a very long time, other than maternity shops. I mostly order online from Land's End, Eddie Bauer, etc because they have tall girl clothes. Seeing myself in modern jeans was a total shock. My older clothes aren't cut in the modern way at all.
Willa wrote:
| One more thing -- when I'm at my personal ideal weight -- a few pounds below where I am now -- I find myself dealing with a whole host of teenage issues. |
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Well, it wasn't teenaged issues, per se, but let's just say I found myself more preoccupied with clothing in general than is normal for me. 
Willa wrote:
I don't wear skirts all the time but wearing skirts and "dignified" clothes helps me face and deal with these reactions. Just thought I'd mention that in case it resonated with anything going on from your past, though in your case it might have nothing at all to do with it.
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Interestingly, it seems that determining to stay modest and feminine seems to have curbed that jump start in my heart toward more shallow stuff, too! Not to say that wanting to look nice is shallow. I don't mean that at all (in fact, I believe the opposite). Just that the temptation for me was to think about it more than necessary, because its more fun now.
I also spent some time trying to remember why I stopped wearing dresses/skirts. I remember now; it was because I couldn't find any maternity skirts that were even remotely modest. I have discovered that my example of pants now for close to 2 yrs has affected my dd's...they never wear their dresses anymore.  I am beyond bummed, and am praying now that God will help me, because the older they get, the harder it is to gently encourage this kind of thing. Ideas much appreciated...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Topic: new take on modesty...help me?
